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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 22, 2022 18:38:51 GMT -6
I've been recording for 40+ years and I've never once had to think about 48v phantom coming out of LFC's, medium sized desks, my toob mic PSU's, BAE 1073's, Millennia pre's, AEA pre's etc etc etc .... I've never heard any detriment to mic signal due to phantom power faltering. In fact I have a little Radial Stage Bug that delivers 48V to two mics and cost $150 (I use it with my Coil CA-70) .... I've had it on a bench to test the supply, and it's rock solid and delivers more than enough current for any swings pulled on by a mic getting hit by heavy SPL's. I can see if you need phantom power and desire some variable phantom power to experiment with, and the other various features it offers, then this Copperline unit is going to be very useful. Buying it because I should be worried about standard phantom power letting me down .... you're not going to convince me of that :-) How about because I have 4-6 channels of pre's that don't have phantom then?  To me, that’s the biggest benefit, but even in my case, where all my pres have solid phantom already, I love the idea of having pads (which a lot of pres don’t have), the mute switches, and presumably good HPFs right there, first thing. That’s powerful. |
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Post by Chad on Nov 22, 2022 19:22:30 GMT -6
What would be the advantage of this unit over the 4 channel Coil Phantom supply I already own? Does being able to regulate voltage make that much more of a difference over having steady, clean, 48 volts available? Same question from me as well. I also own the Coil Audio phantom box. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 22, 2022 19:34:39 GMT -6
What would be the advantage of this unit over the 4 channel Coil Phantom supply I already own? Does being able to regulate voltage make that much more of a difference over having steady, clean, 48 volts available? Same question from me as well. I also own the Coil Audio phantom box. Chad : - Mute switches per channel - 5 HPFilter Freq's per channel - Attenuation Pad - 0, -15, -20, -30, -40 options - Slow start ramp up for power (don't know, the Coil may have this - or not) - A vintage impedance loading option - Polarity switch if your Pre doesn't have one - Rack mountable - IT'S ORANGE!!!!! Well, I guess copper....close enough. - Aaaaannnnnnd - the ability to run your mics at 20 volts and see what they sound like!!!!! (Love that U87 snare sample at 23v HAHA!) There's files on the website if you want to get an idea of what reducing voltage sounds like.... Every mic and voltage and source is going to react different. www.locomotiveaudio.com/copperline. You'll have to scroll down. Honestly, if you use saturation or distortion as a creative tool, I think this is a very cool toy. |
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Post by Locomotive Audio on Nov 22, 2022 19:56:57 GMT -6
What would be the advantage of this unit over the 4 channel Coil Phantom supply I already own? Does being able to regulate voltage make that much more of a difference over having steady, clean, 48 volts available? Same question from me as well. I also own the Coil Audio phantom box. Hi Chad and gwlee7, if just looking at the phantom feature, no there is no advantage to buying the Copperline unless you want to experiment with how your different mics sound at lower voltages. But all the other features, as drBill has mentioned, are what might draw some others to this product. You may not need them. I'm sure that Coil box is perfect for your needs if we are just talking about rock solid phantom, which it likely does extremely well. :-) |
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Post by Locomotive Audio on Nov 22, 2022 19:57:45 GMT -6
Same question from me as well. I also own the Coil Audio phantom box. Chad : - Mute switches per channel - 5 HPFilter Freq's per channel - Attenuation Pad - 0, -15, -20, -30, -40 options - Slow start ramp up for power (don't know, the Coil may have this - or not) - A vintage impedance loading option - Polarity switch if your Pre doesn't have one - Rack mountable - IT'S ORANGE!!!!! Well, I guess copper....close enough. - Aaaaannnnnnd - the ability to run your mics at 20 volts and see what they sound like!!!!! (Love that U87 snare sample at 23v HAHA!) There's files on the website if you want to get an idea of what reducing voltage sounds like.... Every mic and voltage and source is going to react different. www.locomotiveaudio.com/copperline. You'll have to scroll down. Honestly, if you use saturation or distortion as a creative tool, I think this is a very cool toy. Thanks Bill. That about sums it up! |
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Post by Chad on Nov 22, 2022 20:03:21 GMT -6
Chad : - Mute switches per channel - 5 HPFilter Freq's per channel - Attenuation Pad - 0, -15, -20, -30, -40 options - Slow start ramp up for power (don't know, the Coil may have this - or not) - A vintage impedance loading option - Polarity switch if your Pre doesn't have one - Rack mountable - IT'S ORANGE!!!!! Well, I guess copper....close enough. - Aaaaannnnnnd - the ability to run your mics at 20 volts and see what they sound like!!!!! (Love that U87 snare sample at 23v HAHA!) There's files on the website if you want to get an idea of what reducing voltage sounds like.... Every mic and voltage and source is going to react different. www.locomotiveaudio.com/copperline. You'll have to scroll down. Honestly, if you use saturation or distortion as a creative tool, I think this is a very cool toy. Thanks Bill. That about sums it up! @ locomotiveaudio , Thank you both for kindly elaborating! :-) This looks fantastic when you go beyond +48v! Definitely a tool with creative (not just scientific) appeal. 👍🏻 |
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Copperline
Nov 22, 2022 20:14:04 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2022 20:14:04 GMT -6
I've been recording for 40+ years and I've never once had to think about 48v phantom coming out of LFC's, medium sized desks, my toob mic PSU's, BAE 1073's, Millennia pre's, AEA pre's etc etc etc .... I've never heard any detriment to mic signal due to phantom power faltering. In fact I have a little Radial Stage Bug that delivers 48V to two mics and cost $150 (I use it with my Coil CA-70) .... I've had it on a bench to test the supply, and it's rock solid and delivers more than enough current for any swings pulled on by a mic getting hit by heavy SPL's. I can see if you need phantom power and desire some variable phantom power to experiment with, and the other various features it offers, then this Copperline unit is going to be very useful. Buying it because I should be worried about standard phantom power letting me down .... you're not going to convince me of that :-) How about because I have 4-6 channels of pre's that don't have phantom then? I gave that as the reason you might buy it, if you need phantom power. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 22, 2022 22:09:43 GMT -6
I saw this and found it interesting and informative. I don't think he would mind me reposting. From the guy who co:designed it with Eric @locomotive Audio.
Ultra high precision phantom power was one of the primary goals of this machine. People often don't realize how important quality phantom power is and how much bad phantom can adversely affect your signal. The variable voltage part of the Copperline will affect different microphones in different ways. Taking it up to 52 volts may add just a touch of openness and high end with a little extra headroom. Now taking it down low is where the fun begins. Each microphone is different and will react in different ways to low phantom. You can take a mic just above its breakdown voltage (where it stops working) and it can get really grungy and nasty and amazing (awesome on guitars). On some mics starving the phantom actually increased the high end. Vintage load adds resistance in parallel to the input of the Copperline which may help better match the impedance loads. Vintage gear wants to see about 600 ohms which is no longer the standard. This fixes that. The difference in the correct application is astonishing. Most good techs will strap a 600 ohm resistor across the output of a piece of vintage gear (lots of applications are missing this critical resistor). This is the correct solution but its semi-permanent and impossible to A-B. Frequency response opens up greatly with the right impedance matching. Because the resistance is on the input, this can also be applied to a microphone. Again, each mic is different but its just another tool to have some fun with. We are also using Crimson Audio inductors that were custom designed and made for the Copperline.
I'm actually interested to hear how Active ribbons might sound thru this.....
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 23, 2022 12:01:39 GMT -6
I'd like to know if changing the phantom power source to a Copperline when using a high end mics, like Neumann's, AKG's, Bock, Soyuz, Chandler, and some of the high end clones would make a discernible difference when not being used for tonal change, but for its optimal setting.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 23, 2022 13:17:10 GMT -6
I'd like to know if changing the phantom power source to a Copperline when using a high end mics, like Neumann's, AKG's, Bock, Soyuz, Chandler, and some of the high end clones would make a discernible difference when not being used for tonal change, but for its optimal setting. Doubtful for the reasons I stated previously. |
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Post by copperx on Nov 23, 2022 13:25:44 GMT -6
What kinds of pres don't have phantom power? Vintage units? |
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Post by EmRR on Nov 23, 2022 14:30:38 GMT -6
What kinds of pres don't have phantom power? Vintage units? Right. Anything pre-1970 for sure. Anything modular that's been repurposed. When I'm pricing racking jobs for people, it's all the modern bells and whistles that drive most of the cost. I always recommend people skip those, and use inline barrels and outboard phantom, it's cheaper than me building it or adding it, and most of the time those features aren't in use. 48V in use more than any other, but if it's a high gain pre more suited to ribbons or dynamics, it may rarely get used. I don't put anything on my own gear, and use outboard stuff where needed. This device is more about the other features than it is about the phantom in my mind. You might as well put phantom in along with every bell and whistle if you're gonna make a device like this. It seems more suitable to the average situation using very few inputs at a time, I'm usually running 12-16 inputs on tracking sessions, so 8 of these make little sense for me, a small pile of barrels and some outboard 48V I can apply where needed make more sense. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 23, 2022 15:23:48 GMT -6
What kinds of pres don't have phantom power? Vintage units? In addition to vintage units, modern pre's with no 48v would include the Coil CA70's and 286's. I'm sure there are others..... |
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Post by Ward on Nov 24, 2022 18:37:47 GMT -6
In terms of jacking a mic's performance, I referenced impedances with ribbon mics. Samar has a product that exemplifies this philosophy and underscores the utility of the Copperline. samaraudiodesign.com/Active.html |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Nov 24, 2022 21:34:09 GMT -6
In terms of jacking a mic's performance, I referenced impedances with ribbon mics. Samar has a product that exemplifies this philosophy and underscores the utility of the Copperline. samaraudiodesign.com/Active.html What are we doing here that has anything to do with the Copperline other than some cross advertising? |
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Post by Ward on Nov 25, 2022 10:24:08 GMT -6
In terms of jacking a mic's performance, I referenced impedances with ribbon mics. Samar has a product that exemplifies this philosophy and underscores the utility of the Copperline. samaraudiodesign.com/Active.html What are we doing here that has anything to do with the Copperline other than some cross advertising? Sorry, it was just a side point in reference to how a tool can be similarly useful. Didn't mean to pollute the thread in an off topic manner. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Nov 27, 2022 0:09:27 GMT -6
What are we doing here that has anything to do with the Copperline other than some cross advertising? Sorry, it was just a side point in reference to how a tool can be similarly useful. Didn't mean to pollute the thread in an off topic manner. Right on, man. Sorry for the slow holiday response. I get your point. |
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Post by andersmv on Sept 2, 2024 8:32:02 GMT -6
Here's my review of the Copperline:
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Post by yewtreemagic on Sept 4, 2024 8:58:44 GMT -6
At last! What I suspect a lot of us have been waiting for, and that's a decent set of audio files with a few different instruments showing just how versatile condenser mikes can be with different phantom voltages via the Copperline. Thank you |
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Copperline
Sept 4, 2024 12:18:51 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by recordingengineer on Sept 4, 2024 12:18:51 GMT -6
I’ll have to check out the video! I’ve mentioned a few times, a friend and I have in the past experimented with constant-current (100mA enough? 🙃) and all depending on the mic, it made absolutely no difference, a tiny but notable difference, or a huge difference! At AES, Earthworks told us we’d blow their mics up. Josephson himself instantly belittled-us and said to come back when we’ve educated ourselves with basic-understanding of phantom.
We did a ton of testing and never did blow anything up, but we respected Earthworks enough to trust they know their products. Josephson lost a couple of potential-clients for life. So sad because their mics are so great and they truly do know what they’re doing. Maybe he was still bitter AES turned him down on P48H as a new standard? Too bad, as it’s great! We at times heard differences when going from standard P48 to P48H and it won’t blow anything up!
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