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Post by dvdpaulin on Nov 20, 2022 18:27:26 GMT -6
Hi RGO friends!
I'm not trying to start another summing mixer thread with this one. While a summing mixer would *technically* do what I want, it would be overkill lol
What I'm wanting to know is if any of you have figured out a cool way to sum signals going into the DAW for overdubs at home without a console. For instance, I'd like to have the standard combo of 57 and 121 on a guitar amp, then preamps of choice, and them sum them together to one compressor and one track in PT.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 19:38:05 GMT -6
Several ways to go about doing this:
1) Bus the tracks together and monitor the bus. That sums them together. Then use whatever compressor you like as an insert on the bus. If your letup has low enough latency, you can even monitor after a hardware insert while playing.
2) If you want to monitor a mono hardware compressor on both while you play and you don't have a hardware summer and your latency is too high for that hardware compressor insert on a bus, get your mic placement down first with an oscilloscope or plugin, get an XLR summing pedal or small mixer, and then sum to mono to your compressor, into 1 input to pro tools.
Why not just do it in pro tools and align the tracks or get your mic position perfect with an oscilliscope or plugin? Or if not perfect use a subsample delay like the Eventide plug or Sound Radix auto-align to align it? The Voxengo delay is only sample accurate but free.
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beyer160
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Post by beyer160 on Nov 20, 2022 20:39:58 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on Nov 20, 2022 20:52:22 GMT -6
^ this RANE note. I built that out to a switched 6x1 or 3x1 stereo or anything in between to sum my analog bus paths.
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Post by dvdpaulin on Nov 20, 2022 21:04:48 GMT -6
Thanks for the responses guys! Dan, I would personally prefer to sum on the way in to one track, commit and it’s one less track come mix time, especially if there’s a bunch of stacks of guitars. Just how I prefer to work  and I do check phase when setting up the mics (the royer axe mount clip makes it easy too). The radial looks interesting assuming it’s fairly invisible sonically. I’m okay with DIY stuff, mostly depends on how much time I have available to actually do it lol |
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Post by thirdeye on Nov 20, 2022 21:20:41 GMT -6
I like to sum multiple mics to one track while tracking too. I like to commit and "lock" my blend in. I'll usually sum kick mics to one track, snare mics to one track, and guitar mics down to one track.
I have two of the Radial 2:1 units, they are fairly transparent and work well. I also use our SSL Sigma when needed. It has two stereo busses and I'll use it if I need to sum more than just two mics together (like two guitar amps with two mics each).
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Post by sean on Nov 20, 2022 21:26:36 GMT -6
I'll on occasion make 2 mono aux tracks and make their inputs the analog inputs, and make the outputs a buss that feeds an audio track. That way you could get your blend with the aux track faders and that blend is committed when you record. It also be handy if you need to flip the phase and your preamp doesn't have a phase switch (you never know...my GML's don't).
But feeding those to a hardware compressor add a bit of a wrinkle... but this should (maybe) work
1) Make 2 mono aux tracks and make their inputs your preamps, then make the output an analog out that is feeding your compressor's input, and then make a mono analog track with the input the output of your compressor. The aux track faders would be the level of each mic feeding the compressor.
2) Make 2 mono aux tracks and make their inputs your preamps and the outputs a buss, then make another mono aux track with the input that buss and use a hardware insert for your compressor, and then make the output of that aux track another buss, and then make a mono audio track with the input that. That was you could EQ the blend with a plugin before it feeds the compressor if needed.
Not sure what latency would be like in those two scenarios.
Or Radial Mix 2:1 is a really good solution; having a output level control is like having a fader on a console and will allow you to drive the preamp as hard as you want but have control of the output feeding the compressor.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 20, 2022 21:33:45 GMT -6
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Post by dvdpaulin on Nov 20, 2022 22:09:35 GMT -6
I have an HD native thunderbolt setup with Avid HD I/O’s, so latency probably wouldn’t be that big of a deal. The CAPI looks great too. Thanks everyone!
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Post by thirdeye on Nov 20, 2022 22:45:38 GMT -6
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beyer160
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Post by beyer160 on Nov 20, 2022 23:22:12 GMT -6
That looks very cool, and reasonably priced. |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 21, 2022 4:39:34 GMT -6
Thanks for the responses guys! Dan, I would personally prefer to sum on the way in to one track, commit and it’s one less track come mix time, especially if there’s a bunch of stacks of guitars. Just how I prefer to work and I do check phase when setting up the mics (the royer axe mount clip makes it easy too). The radial looks interesting assuming it’s fairly invisible sonically. I’m okay with DIY stuff, mostly depends on how much time I have available to actually do it lol I've got the Radial 2:1 I use to sum an AEA R92 Ribbon and SM57 dynamic when micing a guitar cab. I use a BAE 1073D and AEA RPQ 500 into the Radial 2:1 and then into one channel of my HEDD 192 so I'm confident using high end kit with the Radial 2:1 mixer. It's not fairly invisible, to my ears it's essentially completely invisible by way of being a completely passive design. Radial make seriously well built kit at sensible prices. I love Tim Pierce the session guitarist's set-up, he sums his mics via a Chandler Mixer - that is the top end solution but very, very expensive! I'm the same as you, I stack guitar parts in my arrangements and so layers of two separate tracks would soon look and be very over whelming - I way prefer to commit to a blend at the tracking stage. I've not seen this before .... "the royer axe mount clip" .... it's a great idea! Shame I went for a AEA R92 :-) |
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Post by dvdpaulin on Nov 21, 2022 9:04:26 GMT -6
I'm sure the R92 is great! I have the KU5A and I love it, and the studio I work at has an R88 in each tracking room. Another cool mic clip is the X-Clip (I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it's called on Amazon) but it clips onto a 57 and lets you put up a small diaphragm condenser alongside it. Great for the guys who like a 57 and KM84/451 on snare top. It also fits a Beyer M160 so good for the 57/160 combo on guitars as well The Chandler mixer is definitely a high end solution lol but now that you mention Chandler, I think the TG-2 has a summing feature...does it take line level input? |
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Post by Ward on Nov 21, 2022 9:06:40 GMT -6
What? A song without 64-88 tracks? Y'all are just getting crazy now.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 21, 2022 10:09:17 GMT -6
I'm sure the R92 is great! I have the KU5A and I love it, and the studio I work at has an R88 in each tracking room. Another cool mic clip is the X-Clip (I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it's called on Amazon) but it clips onto a 57 and lets you put up a small diaphragm condenser alongside it. Great for the guys who like a 57 and KM84/451 on snare top. It also fits a Beyer M160 so good for the 57/160 combo on guitars as well The Chandler mixer is definitely a high end solution lol but now that you mention Chandler, I think the TG-2 has a summing feature...does it take line level input? I do love the R92/ SM57 on my Tone king Imperial and Princeton amps - it’s the sound I have in my head for electric guitar. My only issue is setting up the two mics and breaking them down means fiddly phase enlightenment every time I set the cab and mics back up. The 121 /57 mic clip is genius. |
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Post by din on Nov 21, 2022 13:16:41 GMT -6
Chandler TG-2
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Post by EmRR on Nov 21, 2022 14:16:24 GMT -6
You can use a multi-winding transformer too. I have an old UTC that’ll take line level I can use a bunch of different ways.
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Post by ryguydrum on Nov 21, 2022 16:22:05 GMT -6
Two thoughts on this that I have had very good results with.
1st option is a vintage Altec 1567a 4x1 mixer. It has 4 mic pres (+1 line input so technically 5 inputs) that sum down to 1 output. This setup has served me well especially with tones that are on the cleaner side or slightly broken up. Drawbacks are that it is vintage equipment, which will need maintenance from time to time (although mine has been problem free for the last 5 yrs, knock on wood) and no phase reverse or output fader, just a mic pre level knob.
2nd option is an API 3124MV. This has 4 mic pres, all with inserts and output faders. And they have pan pots so you could take channels 1 and 2 (in your case a 57 and 121) and pan them hard left to use the main left output for one amp, and then channels 3 and 4 with two other mics you like using on another amp and pan those hard right to use the main right output for another option. You could also use other mic preamps with this setup and then use the line inputs like I described above. Only drawback with this setup is it is expensive.
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beyer160
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Post by beyer160 on Nov 22, 2022 21:29:24 GMT -6
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and I do check phase when setting up the mics (the royer axe mount clip makes it easy too). 
