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Post by copperx on Nov 17, 2022 14:10:16 GMT -6
Hi,
I'm trying to tame a vocal that was tracked uncompressed; I'm trying to make it fit in a dense mix. I made it work by setting the attack and release on the fastest setting (7) and more than 20 dB of gain reduction! (needle goes all the way to the left on the loudest parts) on a 1176 Rev A clone. The transients dissapeared, but that's what I wanted. The vocal now fits great, but the only issue is that the vocal became a bit dark. Adding post-compression EQ kinda works but brings out silabance.
Does anybody have any ideas on how to make it brighter without bringing out the silabance?
Also, am I insane for going that hard on the compressor? I know that CLA uses his Rev A with a slower attack (3), but to get similar results, I had to set the attack to fastest. It feels like I'm doing something wrong, but it sounds right. Is there anything that I have to watch out?
If you have any tips regarding this kind of pinned vocal sound I would welcome them.
Thanks!
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Post by bossanova on Nov 17, 2022 14:31:37 GMT -6
Try de-essing before sending out to the comp and then again after post-comp EQ.
Or: maybe back it off to 6 on attack and see if it's controlled but not so dark? I rarely encounter a 76 set to max attack on vocals, at least in my limited circle of experience.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 17, 2022 15:02:38 GMT -6
Hi, I'm trying to tame a vocal that was tracked uncompressed; I'm trying to make it fit in a dense mix. I made it work by setting the attack and release on the fastest setting (7) and more than 20 dB of gain reduction! (needle goes all the way to the left on the loudest parts) on a 1176 Rev A clone. The transients dissapeared, but that's what I wanted. The vocal now fits great, but the only issue is that the vocal became a bit dark. Adding post-compression EQ kinda works but brings out silabance. Does anybody have any ideas on how to make it brighter without bringing out the silabance? Also, am I insane for going that hard on the compressor? I know that CLA uses his Rev A with a slower attack (3), but to get similar results, I had to set the attack to fastest. It feels like I'm doing something wrong, but it sounds right. Is there anything that I have to watch out? If you have any tips regarding this kind of pinned vocal sound I would welcome them. Thanks! Try different approach maybe? Try track volume automation to to achieve some macro dynamic reduction, then look to manually de-ess the vocal (sounds way better than a de-esser imho) Then for some micro envelope and excitement start with the "Dr Pepper" settings on your 1176 and see how things sound from there. The manual editing will be time consuming but the results should justify the effort.
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2022 16:48:18 GMT -6
Hi, I'm trying to tame a vocal that was tracked uncompressed; I'm trying to make it fit in a dense mix. I made it work by setting the attack and release on the fastest setting (7) and more than 20 dB of gain reduction! (needle goes all the way to the left on the loudest parts) on a 1176 Rev A clone. The transients dissapeared, but that's what I wanted. The vocal now fits great, but the only issue is that the vocal became a bit dark. Adding post-compression EQ kinda works but brings out silabance. Does anybody have any ideas on how to make it brighter without bringing out the silabance? Also, am I insane for going that hard on the compressor? I know that CLA uses his Rev A with a slower attack (3), but to get similar results, I had to set the attack to fastest. It feels like I'm doing something wrong, but it sounds right. Is there anything that I have to watch out? If you have any tips regarding this kind of pinned vocal sound I would welcome them. Thanks! Tips: Don't rely on one compressor if you want that pinned vocal sound (my favorite, ever since I heard my first Hugh Padgem mix!) Use a V-Comp (a variety mu comp from audioscape and Retro makes a similar one) or a CL1b or an LA2a/Opto and a 76 Rev a. Ht them both HARD. The small amounts of distortion in each will take care of shaving the transients and give you a quicker attack without it sounding like a bucking bronco or an asthmatic (like me) without a puffer after a 10 mile marathon. i.e. pumping and breathing Mic goes into preamp. Average RMS output from the preamp should be -18 up to -12 dbFs. (or 0dBu up to +6) input on your mu or opto should be high. on about 12 o'clock. Output at about noon also. Compress mode. I wrote a user guide for these which goes with the Audioscape product guide. The 76 blues tripe Rev a? The beauty is that it's like crystal shattering sound in the attack of a dialed up AC30. Sparkle and shine and is shatters the transients into magical pixie dust. Try setting the input at about 30 up to 27 and the output at 12 (numbers, not clock positions) attack 3 release 5-6. Ratio 12:1. Ignore the meters once they're set. It's really that simple.
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Post by drumsound on Nov 17, 2022 19:18:30 GMT -6
Hi, I'm trying to tame a vocal that was tracked uncompressed; I'm trying to make it fit in a dense mix. I made it work by setting the attack and release on the fastest setting (7) and more than 20 dB of gain reduction! (needle goes all the way to the left on the loudest parts) on a 1176 Rev A clone. The transients dissapeared, but that's what I wanted. The vocal now fits great, but the only issue is that the vocal became a bit dark. Adding post-compression EQ kinda works but brings out silabance. Does anybody have any ideas on how to make it brighter without bringing out the silabance? Also, am I insane for going that hard on the compressor? I know that CLA uses his Rev A with a slower attack (3), but to get similar results, I had to set the attack to fastest. It feels like I'm doing something wrong, but it sounds right. Is there anything that I have to watch out? If you have any tips regarding this kind of pinned vocal sound I would welcome them. Thanks! I saw someone BURYING the needle on a blue strip this weekend with a medium attack and fast release on tracks he'd produced 25 years ago. He said that's generally when he did then, and still does, and it sounded FUCKING PERFECT.
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Post by mcirish on Nov 18, 2022 14:21:28 GMT -6
I tend to go with multiple stages of compression 1176 - EQ - Opto - and then MV2 in the box I try to stay under 10dB of reduction on the 1176 and about 4-5dB on the opto LA2A. In the box, I like MV2 (Waves) to bring up the low stuff. I don't light the downward compression of it at all. The combination works well for me but some deessing or manual adjustments of the Es's is going to be necessary. I don't think there's any way to get super in your face vocals without taming es's.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2022 16:33:43 GMT -6
Also, am I insane for going that hard on the compressor? I know that CLA uses his Rev A with a slower attack (3), but to get similar results, I had to set the attack to fastest. It feels like I'm doing something wrong, but it sounds right. Is there anything that I have to watch out? If you have any tips regarding this kind of pinned vocal sound I would welcome them. Urrr nah.. They've been doing that in professional rock and pop music production for many years. Dual stacking is common as it gets which is a good suggestion from ward, plus mic selection is very critical here. With a dynamic and a 6176 strip the end result is too lifeless for my tastes, pass me a Manly Ref though and I'll slam the crap out of it via a 1176 plus a 2A without a second thought.
Also this is where decent neutral mic's shine, they don't tend to suffer many issues with post compression EQ.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2022 17:27:28 GMT -6
OP, high shelves bringing out sibilants is the reason the MCDSP dialog processor exists. Limit it more! But honestly you're overcompressing the signal and the 1176 is smashing down microtransients in the highs. Back off on it and use an additional compressor or two or use a better compressor in the first place to avoid overmodulating the signal by stacking 3-4 compressors in a row.
Honestly, now is the time to ditch the "classics" and learn to use the new stuff Use one of those compressors that has a cleaner box tone or ones that use any number of a variety of techniques to keep the high end alive
High frequency expansion linked to the compression: Drawmer DL251, U-he Presswerk, Tokyo Dawn Nova GE. Discontinued stuff: Aphex Expressor. Lower ratio in highs: Tokyo Dawn Kotelnikov GE with frequency dependent ratio, multiband compressors with first order crossovers. I like PSP OldtimerMB Or just use something cleaner or low passed sidechain or total multiband bullshit for bullshit "modern" genres
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2022 17:31:39 GMT -6
Also, am I insane for going that hard on the compressor? I know that CLA uses his Rev A with a slower attack (3), but to get similar results, I had to set the attack to fastest. It feels like I'm doing something wrong, but it sounds right. Is there anything that I have to watch out? If you have any tips regarding this kind of pinned vocal sound I would welcome them. Urrr nah.. They've been doing that in professional rock and pop music production for many years. Dual stacking is common as it gets which is a good suggestion from ward, plus mic selection is very critical here. With a dynamic and a 6176 strip the end result is too lifeless for my tastes, pass me a Manly Ref though and I'll slam the crap out of it via a 1176 plus a 2A without a second thought.
Also this is where decent neutral mic's shine, they don't tend to suffer many issues with post compression EQ.
The mics are important. Condensers have more detail to start with so the downsides of various compressors affect them less. Also not bright or problematic condensers need less work on top of that and will produce a more natural result. Chinese and Rode mics are lol
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Post by copperx on Nov 20, 2022 12:16:23 GMT -6
Thank you all. I made it work by using two compressors in series, the Daking Comp II with slow attack / fast release -- about 7 dB gain reduction, followed by the 1176 Rev A at attack around 3 and fastest release, pinned at over 20 dB gain reduction. Somehow that reduced the sibilance significantly. I didn't have an LA2A available to try Ward-io-Scape's approach.
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Post by Ward on Nov 20, 2022 14:51:39 GMT -6
Thank you all. I made it work by using two compressors in series, the Daking Comp II with slow attack / fast release -- about 7 dB gain reduction, followed by the 1176 Rev A at attack around 3 and fastest release, pinned at over 20 dB gain reduction. Somehow that reduced the sibilance significantly. I didn't have an LA2A available to try Ward-io-Scape's approach. Glad you made it work! Also, when you have a chance listen to 'The Marlboro Man' by Matt Roy
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Post by Ward on Nov 20, 2022 14:53:39 GMT -6
Oops . . . a link would help. The higher quality version of it really exemplifies the heavier compression
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Post by copperx on Nov 20, 2022 17:13:44 GMT -6
Oops . . . a link would help. The higher quality version of it really exemplifies the heavier compression Awesome, that's exactly the sound I had in my head. Do you happen to know by chance which particular compressors were used on the vocal?
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Post by Ward on Nov 20, 2022 17:41:22 GMT -6
I don't as of yet, but hope to find out. I'm hearing some VCA action in there, I think . . . or ABI mode FET stuff.
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Post by vvvooojjj on Nov 25, 2022 1:50:57 GMT -6
Bluey in all buttons mode after LA3 sounded very good yesterday while tracking vocals. Ratio 8+12 pushed in release at 6 and attack 5 (Blueys attack is reversed so that would be 3 on a "regular" 1176). LA3 was working around 0-10 dBs of gr and Bluey quite a bit more.
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