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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 10, 2014 8:04:12 GMT -6
I think I posted a question about this before, but I can't seem to find it. I've got a song that has Whoa-oh-oh-ohhhhs in the chorus'. I've tried the "sing each part 4 times" thing, and then panning them left and right, but it seems to be coming out kind of "choirish"...Not sure how to approach it. I'm also a little lost on how to effect it. Delay? Reverb? Room? Hall? I always thought I would approach it like "Barefoot Bluejean Night" but those sound like they got 20 people in the room at the same time. This is a little more difficult singing part and needs to be in tune - and getting 20 people to sing it in tune would be kind of impossible. Any suggestions? I'll try and post a quick snippet of the demo (we're actually cut it again for an EP) so you can hear the part. So - this is just a clip from a quick demo that will give you an idea...I did like a 4 part harmony thing and it just feels like the Andrews Sisters... clip.mp3 (359.06 KB) |
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Post by warren on Jun 10, 2014 8:36:13 GMT -6
Damn was hoping this thread was about old school gangsta rap. Did you try signing like you're drunk and out of tune a little? (just like some people in crowds) Could also try this plugin, think you'll need a vst wrapper though as it doesn't look to be rtas/aax www.cloneensemble.com/cl_main.htm |
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Post by svart on Jun 10, 2014 8:53:25 GMT -6
I've never been able to get "gang" vocals to sound right with only a single person. The voices need to be quite different from each other to give the full "gang" effect. The human ear is just too good at picking out single human voices from crowds and even with multiples of the same voice, the brain is not fooled into thinking it's a bunch of different people.
The only thing I could suggest is to sing it very differently and hope to blend them together.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 10, 2014 9:14:44 GMT -6
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Post by watchtower on Jun 10, 2014 9:17:25 GMT -6
I agree. Single person will indeed sound like a choir or something as opposed to a crowd.
In the past for gang vocals, I mimicked a concert as well as I could. I had a group of a bunch of ppl in an orchestra rehearsal room do the crowd shouts. First, I had them form a line away the mics (it was a stereo omni array, actually) so that each person was about the same distance from it. We did a take. Then I had them take a few steps back and move around WITHIN the line to a different spot, and did another take. Then I did a third take with them moved even further back (and again each person was in a different relative spot within the line).
These days I don't have access to an orchestra room, so for crowd shouts I just do 4 or 5 takes of 3 or more ppl singing/screaming in a semi-circle around a cardioid mic, and have them move their relative positions to each other each take. Each take should be panned differently. If you do 3 takes, I'd go L, C, R.
And don't get too crazy with the reverb or it will become indistinct and start sounding like reverb instead of a crowd, as well.
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Post by sinasoid on Jun 10, 2014 10:07:07 GMT -6
With three vocal takes, I EQ each one drastically different. Straight center generally flat, left with a low mid bump, right with a high mid bump. Works well for me.
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Post by henge on Jun 10, 2014 10:55:10 GMT -6
I thinbk the secret is different distances. A bunch up close, a bunch 3 ft away and a bunch 6 ft away from the mic. It's the room or space that gives the size ime.
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Post by Ward on Jun 10, 2014 13:42:30 GMT -6
I've never been able to get "gang" vocals to sound right with only a single person. The voices need to be quite different from each other to give the full "gang" effect. The human ear is just too good at picking out single human voices from crowds and even with multiples of the same voice, the brain is not fooled into thinking it's a bunch of different people. This is completely correct. Multiple voices or multiple vocal sounds. |
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Post by wiz on Jun 10, 2014 17:53:57 GMT -6
I do something with hand claps you can try. You are going to have to do it a lot though.
set up XY or spaced pair mics in decent sized room, large lounge..what ever is the biggest room in your house is.
Then do about 20 takes, each time recording in stereo and going to a different point in the room, different distances, different positions in the stereo field.
That gets your handclaps sounding like a lot of people.
Try this same approach with the vocal, and each take hit varispeed in your daw and record it a slight different tempo (which will change the pitch) faster tempo, lower resulting pitch, I would try that.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 11, 2014 8:49:32 GMT -6
Thanks for all the help guys! I also wonder if these are really "gang vocals" - because they need to be tighter than that...Below is a clip of where I'm at right now with them. It's a three part harmony with 4 each...Think I'm gonna try it with just 2 each to see if I can get some of the "choir" out of it. clip1.mp3 (360.8 KB) |
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Post by Ward on Jun 11, 2014 9:02:28 GMT -6
Maybe we can help each other out? If one of us needs "gang vocals", maybe that person could have a bunch of us contribute a track or 3 each and then our fellow RG-er gets a ton of gang vocalists to help out, free of charge.
I've made this offer to JK already.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 11, 2014 9:11:08 GMT -6
Yeah - sorry I haven't gotten back to you Ward! I appreciate it! If you listen to the clip, I guess it's not really "gang" vocals - or it doesn't necessarily need "different" voices...So, I think I can tweak this to work...
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 11, 2014 9:28:37 GMT -6
Yeah - sorry I haven't gotten back to you Ward! I appreciate it! If you listen to the clip, I guess it's not really "gang" vocals - or it doesn't necessarily need "different" voices...So, I think I can tweak this to work... Sounds to me like gang vocals would work well here. 3 or 4 voices as if they were the different members of the "band" more than a bunch of drunk people in a crowd. JMO... |
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Post by henge on Jun 11, 2014 10:55:17 GMT -6
Maybe we can help each other out? If one of us needs "gang vocals", maybe that person could have a bunch of us contribute a track or 3 each and then our fellow RG-er gets a ton of gang vocalists to help out, free of charge. I've made this offer to JK already. Excellent idea!! I have to haul my wife in to do gang vox and it would sound better with you guys in the mix. I'l gladly do whooas for anybody if they need it. |
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Post by henge on Jun 11, 2014 10:57:23 GMT -6
Thanks for all the help guys! I also wonder if these are really "gang vocals" - because they need to be tighter than that...Below is a clip of where I'm at right now with them. It's a three part harmony with 4 each...Think I'm gonna try it with just 2 each to see if I can get some of the "choir" out of it. Actually i agree with you JK, it could be a gang but energy wise tight harms would seem to fit better. |
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Post by ben on Jun 11, 2014 16:32:17 GMT -6
Definitely distance, and also slightly detune one up and another down, pan them. I like using a short timed delay, mixed barely enough to hear it. Gives it some depth without sounding like there are any fx. I also agree that a tight harmony may work better with this track.
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Post by sinasoid on Jun 11, 2014 16:37:19 GMT -6
Definitely distance, and also slightly detune one up and another down, pan them. With gang vocals, I found it's not best to give them too extreme of a pan, or else each voice gets separated too much. Even with background harmonies, I like keeping the pan anywhere from 9 & 3 to 10 & 2. Gives it a nice blended sound. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 11, 2014 18:06:04 GMT -6
So, in that second clip, there are three harms and panned to around 40 on each side. The volumes need to be ridden, but is this attempt close? What am I missing.
(Opening himself up for 79 differing opinions)
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