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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 3, 2022 0:35:51 GMT -6
For those still mixing in analog of some arrangement, what are you doing/using when it comes to a mastering limiter? I’m specifically speaking of when just throwing a limiter on a monitor mix, just to get it to “release-level”. Are you just using a plugin or are you using hardware still?
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Post by notneeson on Nov 3, 2022 8:57:45 GMT -6
When I mix through my D-box I capture back to PT and will often put a software limiter there to see how my mix responds.
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Post by jaba on Nov 3, 2022 9:29:01 GMT -6
If you're looking for an affordable analog option for quick 'n dirty, I'd suggest looking into an Aphex Compellor.
It's been a while since I've used it but I remember getting good levels for rough mixes on that thing and it sounded good.
Also good for non-2buss duties as well and likely had for low $$ these days.
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Post by mcirish on Nov 3, 2022 10:26:09 GMT -6
My thinking is that the limiter is not doing the bulk of the level increase. My setup (in and out) would have a pretty smooth compressor that is also used to get some level, drive that into an EQ. Then hit a clipper before the final limiter. I think the clipper and limiter are better done in the box, while the compressor and EQ are often better in the analog world. To get rock mixes that can compete without pumping, I think clipping is extremely important. Usually, it's the snare hits that stick out of the waveform (if you are looking at the dynamics). A clipper can get rid of the snare spikes and not pump at all. That leaves the limiter to adjust the RMS level without having to control those spikes. It's a subtle balancing act as each process affects the others.
Just my 2 cents...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2022 11:30:48 GMT -6
If you're looking for an affordable analog option for quick 'n dirty, I'd suggest looking into an Aphex Compellor. It's been a while since I've used it but I remember getting good levels for rough mixes on that thing and it sounded good. Also good for non-2buss duties as well and likely had for low $$ these days. Or a Dominator. Aphex was crazy cool and it’s a shame they’ve been discontinued by Rode |
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Post by svart on Nov 3, 2022 11:41:27 GMT -6
A limiter shouldn't be necessary to get "loudness". You achieve this in the mix. If you're trying to use the limiter to get "loudness" you're going to end up with the weird effects that everyone attributes to "being too loud" because the mix has to be built around being loud.
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Post by nick8801 on Nov 3, 2022 12:09:31 GMT -6
All things being equal, if I just need to push the mix a bit so it's more "finished" sounding in the monitors I usually just throw on ozone maximizer.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
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Post by ericn on Nov 3, 2022 15:16:50 GMT -6
If you're looking for an affordable analog option for quick 'n dirty, I'd suggest looking into an Aphex Compellor. It's been a while since I've used it but I remember getting good levels for rough mixes on that thing and it sounded good. Also good for non-2buss duties as well and likely had for low $$ these days. Or a Dominator. Aphex was crazy cool and it’s a shame they’ve been discontinued by Rode Dominator, you will think it’s invisible, then send it to Audio Upgrades and it will be even more invisible. SAVART is absolutely right, did I just say that😜 a limiter will not give you the illusion of things are louder, a true limiter is a compression with a fixed ratio of infinity. What a limiter will do is not let things get louder, here is the most basic way to understand what limiter is for get a SPL meter app for your phone, feed a limiter a fixed level tone, set the threshold so that the limiter is doing its job, note the level you see coming out of your monitors, now turn up a gain before the limiter note the level isn’t changing. Now repeat using music. A limiter is about setting a limit, yeah I know the UA LA series acts more like a compressor. If your on the cheap get ( nobody ban, ignore or flog me for this) a Behringer Compossor and play with the comp and limiter sections individually and together, learn the basics. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 3, 2022 22:53:16 GMT -6
Thanks guys!
It’s funny… I’ve owned Compellors and Dominators many years past, but have never even tried them on a mix bus application; figuring that as a mastering issue anyhow. Back then, I’d tell clients don’t worry about the overall loudness, mastering will take care of that. Somehow, many still asked after the fact: “Why is it not as loud as a typical CD?”
When I got my first PTHD rig in the early 2000s and eventually got the L2 plugin, I’d throw it on if I knew it was never going to be mastered, but not until a final mix. Of course, at that point loudness wasn’t really a problem except for being in the height of the loudness-wars timeframe.
Nowadays (for a long time now), it seems everyone expects everything to be just as loud as any final release, so every monitor mix, I’m going through the song twice… Tracking the monitor mix in real-time into PT, throwing a plugin on (Limitless right now), then tracking internally in real-time again, Export Clip As Files for an MP3, then emailing and/or Airdropping. I suppose I could Commit or Bounce Offline instead to save some time.
It’s no big deal really, but it’s a lot of wasted time when you add it up, as it’s a lot of monitor mixes per song, per project, a lot of times… I wish everything I did sounded like a record at every stage of tracking, but it doesn’t, and it isn’t necessarily my fault… Anyhow, just curious what everyone else does.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
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Post by ericn on Nov 4, 2022 8:13:26 GMT -6
Thanks guys! It’s funny… I’ve owned Compellors and Dominators many years past, but have never even tried them on a mix bus application; figuring that as a mastering issue anyhow. Back then, I’d tell clients don’t worry about the overall loudness, mastering will take care of that. Somehow, many still asked after the fact: “Why is it not as loud as a typical CD?” When I got my first PTHD rig in the early 2000s and eventually got the L2 plugin, I’d throw it on if I knew it was never going to be mastered, but not until a final mix. Of course, at that point loudness wasn’t really a problem except for being in the height of the loudness-wars timeframe. Nowadays (for a long time now), it seems everyone expects everything to be just as loud as any final release, so every monitor mix, I’m going through the song twice… Tracking the monitor mix in real-time into PT, throwing a plugin on (Limitless right now), then tracking internally in real-time again, Export Clip As Files for an MP3, then emailing and/or Airdropping. I suppose I could Commit or Bounce Offline instead to save some time. It’s no big deal really, but it’s a lot of wasted time when you add it up, as it’s a lot of monitor mixes per song, per project, a lot of times… I wish everything I did sounded like a record at every stage of tracking, but it doesn’t, and it isn’t necessarily my fault… Anyhow, just curious what everyone else does. PT and digital did make it to easy to just throw dynamics across every bus, but in the world of live and wedges we got there first with IEMs, you had to with the first generation. The problem is and especially with vocals you smash it and take out all the dynamics they start to perform like a record and a lot of subtle stuff tone wise, you smashed it on the record to bring out at mix disappears because they are performing without dynamics. They don’t realize that it’s about more than dynamics. |
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