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Post by phdamage on Oct 28, 2022 20:52:59 GMT -6
+1 for zildjian A customs.
I also find some Sabian AAX series to be very similar. I am admittedly a cymbal basher, so take that as you will.
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Post by drumsound on Oct 28, 2022 23:22:47 GMT -6
Been a while since purchasing but I focus on thin, fast crashes as they do their thing and then get out of the way, as compared to others that linger with a slower decay. But with that in mind, I never buy unless I can go to the wall of cymbals and match the crashes (complimentary - very subjective, of course). Those cymbals walls are the WORST!!! Always take cymbals you're interested in off the wall and hear them on a stand. |
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Post by sirthought on Oct 29, 2022 4:49:37 GMT -6
Been a while since purchasing but I focus on thin, fast crashes as they do their thing and then get out of the way, as compared to others that linger with a slower decay. But with that in mind, I never buy unless I can go to the wall of cymbals and match the crashes (complimentary - very subjective, of course). Those cymbals walls are the WORST!!! Always take cymbals you're interested in off the wall and hear them on a stand. I'm guessing he means more the opportunity to have a selection to demo. |
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Post by drumsound on Oct 29, 2022 10:00:32 GMT -6
Those cymbals walls are the WORST!!! Always take cymbals you're interested in off the wall and hear them on a stand. I'm guessing he means more the opportunity to have a selection to demo. I assume so as well. I kind of wanted to just put that out in general. I worked at a shop when Zildjian installed one of those walls, so I was very aware of the before and after. I wanted people, especially non-drummers to keep in mind that the wall and all the other cymbals are an acoustic nightmare. |
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Post by theglow on Oct 29, 2022 10:22:54 GMT -6
Based on your original post, you need something thin AND small in diameter. Thinner cymbals tend to be lower in pitch vs a thicker cymbal of the same diameter (which is what you’re not liking about your k darks) but also quieter and generally darker, which are both GOOD things when it comes to recording. I suggest you try some smaller, thinner crashes if you want them to sit higher spectrally. K Dark Crash Medium Thin is my preference. Maybe a 15” or 16”?
Those A Customs that people are recommending are gonna be too loud and bright (they’re the pop-punk cymbals, after all!)
I also love Agop Traditional thin crashes…
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Post by ragan on Oct 29, 2022 12:28:45 GMT -6
Based on your original post, you need something thin AND small in diameter. Thinner cymbals tend to be lower in pitch vs a thicker cymbal of the same diameter (which is what you’re not liking about your k darks) but also quieter and generally darker, which are both GOOD things when it comes to recording. I suggest you try some smaller, thinner crashes if you want them to sit higher spectrally. K Dark Crash Medium Thin is my preference. Maybe a 15” or 16”? Those A Customs that people are recommending are gonna be too loud and bright (they’re the pop-punk cymbals, after all!) I also love Agop Traditional thin crashes… My 18” Dark Crash is denoted “thin”, the 16” is just called Dark Crash. It’s funny, I’ve been playing drums steadily for like 30 years, but I’ve never really had to pick anything out. My brother was the drummer in the band I was in for a long time and he was always cycling through kits/cymbals and I’d just play and record whatever was in our rehearsal space. I bought the pair of K Dark crashes when I built my own room about 10 years ago and have used them ever since. And I do like them, I’m just interested in something different to have as well. He (my brother) has a whole bunch of cymbals at his place, but they’re all large like Ultra Smash Projection Xplosion Crash that he employed to get over our wall of Hiwatts, Twin Reverbs, Ampeg SVT, etc. Not what I want for tracking. |
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Post by brendanmccusker on Nov 3, 2022 0:54:02 GMT -6
istanbul agop all the way.
traditional, mel lewis, signature, xist, 30th anniversary series are all great.
i have a set of paiste giant beats that also record really well, but istanbul agop cymbals win out nearly 100% of the time in my experience
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Post by mcirish on Nov 3, 2022 10:48:37 GMT -6
Well, I guess I'm a bit contrary. Every session I've done in the last year, I keep putting the K custom dark crashes back on the stands. They just work for me. I work with a drummer who loves Sabian. Personally, I can never control them in a mix. Most likely his playing, but the K customs just work. I can't remember which sizes I have. Either 16 & 18 or 17 & 19. Also, the K ride is another favorite. Not nearly as pokey as the Sabian's.
I also don't like overly bright cymbals, like Paiste. They draw too much attention IMO.
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Post by drumsound on Nov 3, 2022 11:48:59 GMT -6
Well, I guess I'm a bit contrary. Every session I've done in the last year, I keep putting the K custom dark crashes back on the stands. They just work for me. I work with a drummer who loves Sabian. Personally, I can never control them in a mix. Most likely his playing, but the K customs just work. I can't remember which sizes I have. Either 16 & 18 or 17 & 19. Also, the K ride is another favorite. Not nearly as pokey as the Sabian's. I also don't like overly bright cymbals, like Paiste. They draw too much attention IMO. I'm with you on all of this. I've never heard a Sabian crash that wasn't BONG-Y. Paiste cymbals feel really weird under my hands. I'm sure if I bought some and got used to how they react, I'd be more able to pull the tones I like out of them, but there's a certain brightness in many of their lines I just don't jibe with. I especially can't stand the 2oo2 series. |
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Post by din on Nov 3, 2022 12:50:34 GMT -6
Zildjian K Constantinople, Meinl Byzance
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Post by phdamage on Nov 3, 2022 13:57:09 GMT -6
another idea is that there seem to be more local cymbal makers popping up these days - maybe i'm biased, but we've got a new guy in Philly and Nickymoon is only just over in Jersey. But I've had good luck having both of them reworking cracked rides into hihats and other things.
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Post by gevermil on Nov 3, 2022 16:33:14 GMT -6
istanbul agop all the way. traditional, mel lewis, signature, xist, 30th anniversary series are all great. i have a set of paiste giant beats that also record really well, but istanbul agop cymbals win out nearly 100% of the time in my experience Yep , one of the few cymbal lines that wowed me . I played some 15" traditional hats and mel lewis stuff and was really suprised .
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 4, 2022 19:06:22 GMT -6
Well, I guess I'm a bit contrary. Every session I've done in the last year, I keep putting the K custom dark crashes back on the stands. They just work for me. I work with a drummer who loves Sabian. Personally, I can never control them in a mix. Most likely his playing, but the K customs just work. I can't remember which sizes I have. Either 16 & 18 or 17 & 19. Also, the K ride is another favorite. Not nearly as pokey as the Sabian's. I also don't like overly bright cymbals, like Paiste. They draw too much attention IMO. I'm with you on all of this. I've never heard a Sabian crash that wasn't BONG-Y. Paiste cymbals feel really weird under my hands. I'm sure if I bought some and got used to how they react, I'd be more able to pull the tones I like out of them, but there's a certain brightness in many of their lines I just don't jibe with. I especially can't stand the 2oo2 series. To say Paiste cymbals are "overly bright" is an outdated trope at this point. Sure, the 2002s and other Paistes that use the B8 bronze are intentionally bright, but still have their place in the cymbal pallet. The B20 Paistes however, such as the Signature Traditionals or the Masters, are warm, full voiced cymbals that have zero harshness to them. |
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Post by sean on Nov 4, 2022 20:35:05 GMT -6
There are so many cymbal lines from each manufacturer I think generalizing any brand as this or that is unfair.
Honestly I’d just go to your local drum shop and even if you aren’t a drum hit a bunch of cymbal and let your ears decide.
This coming from someone who has a variety of Paiste, Zildjian, Isntabul Agop, and Bosphorus cymbals…and there are several Meinl, Sabian, and Istanbul Mehmet cymbals I’ve heard and love (Meinl Jazz and Sabian Artisan in particular)
Also, I agree A Custom a definitely designed with cutting through in heavy guitar music and are pretty genre specific
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Post by drumsound on Nov 4, 2022 22:14:38 GMT -6
I'm with you on all of this. I've never heard a Sabian crash that wasn't BONG-Y. Paiste cymbals feel really weird under my hands. I'm sure if I bought some and got used to how they react, I'd be more able to pull the tones I like out of them, but there's a certain brightness in many of their lines I just don't jibe with. I especially can't stand the 2oo2 series. To say Paiste cymbals are "overly bright" is an outdated trope at this point. Sure, the 2002s and other Paistes that use the B8 bronze are intentionally bright, but still have their place in the cymbal pallet. The B20 Paistes however, such as the Signature Traditionals or the Masters, are warm, full voiced cymbals that have zero harshness to them. I didn't say overly bright, but there is a type of brightness in Paiste cymbals, that is identifiable. I was selling gear when the Signature and Traditionals hit, and they are different sounding that 2002s for sure, but there's still a 'thing' about them. I believe it's part of the shaping and manufacturing process. I appreciate them more under other people's sticks than my own. I've had the pleasure of using a friend's Giant Beats along with his vintage Ludwig set on a couple of 'vintage recording' seminar thing, and they are cool. I also really like vintage and modern 602s. I had a teacher with a 60s Ludwig set with a 602 ride and hats in high school, and I still think fondly of those. I'd love to find a vintage 602 that sounds like the one John Densmore used. Paiste has a very different aesthetic than Turkish style cymbals. Which is a good thing, but not generally my thing. |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 5, 2022 5:40:40 GMT -6
RGO drummers. I’ve been using Zildjian K Dark crashes for years. I like them. But lately I’m finding they come a bit too far down into the midrange. I’m looking for something new to try. I’ve always disliked very bright/glassy cymbals and I can’t stand crashes that are too loud and project-y. I want a somewhat mellow top, but something that doesn’t eat up midrange. What should I look at? Genre? Acoustic Jazz I used K's Electric jazz - I like Zildian A's Rock - I had a set of Paste as I loved the bright cutting quality. |
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 5, 2022 18:33:39 GMT -6
To say Paiste cymbals are "overly bright" is an outdated trope at this point. Sure, the 2002s and other Paistes that use the B8 bronze are intentionally bright, but still have their place in the cymbal pallet. The B20 Paistes however, such as the Signature Traditionals or the Masters, are warm, full voiced cymbals that have zero harshness to them. I didn't say overly bright, but there is a type of brightness in Paiste cymbals, that is identifiable. I was selling gear when the Signature and Traditionals hit, and they are different sounding that 2002s for sure, but there's still a 'thing' about them. I believe it's part of the shaping and manufacturing process. I appreciate them more under other people's sticks than my own. I've had the pleasure of using a friend's Giant Beats along with his vintage Ludwig set on a couple of 'vintage recording' seminar thing, and they are cool. I also really like vintage and modern 602s. I had a teacher with a 60s Ludwig set with a 602 ride and hats in high school, and I still think fondly of those. I'd love to find a vintage 602 that sounds like the one John Densmore used. Paiste has a very different aesthetic than Turkish style cymbals. Which is a good thing, but not generally my thing. I hear you Tony. In years past I would run into that opinion a lot even though I would enjoy mixing in the occasional Paiste Sound Formula or 2002. I'm really "catholic" in my cymbal tastes and there's nothing better than great Turkish cymbals. A retired friend recently gave me a set of 15" Zildjian Trans Stamp hats and I love them. But I've recently caught the Paiste bug with some of their newer lines. Ragan commented that he's not looking for anything too bright or glassy, and I wouldn't use those adjectives at all with the Signature Traditionals, Masters, or their Dark Matter cymbals. I really like the dynamic range of the new Paistes and the complex way they open up. Many cymbal manufacturers are on a very dark, thin and trashy kick these days, and that can be fun. But the problem is once you start to lay into them they often choke off and become splatty--the exact opposite of what they're trying to achieve. (But that's just a pet peeve of mine and I digress.) If some folks aren't familiar with the new Paistes here's a video that shows how beautifully complex and musical they can be. It still may not be your thing Tony, and I totally respect that. There are a lot of cymbals that people love and I just scratch my head at! |
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Post by drumsound on Nov 5, 2022 18:40:20 GMT -6
I didn't say overly bright, but there is a type of brightness in Paiste cymbals, that is identifiable. I was selling gear when the Signature and Traditionals hit, and they are different sounding that 2002s for sure, but there's still a 'thing' about them. I believe it's part of the shaping and manufacturing process. I appreciate them more under other people's sticks than my own. I've had the pleasure of using a friend's Giant Beats along with his vintage Ludwig set on a couple of 'vintage recording' seminar thing, and they are cool. I also really like vintage and modern 602s. I had a teacher with a 60s Ludwig set with a 602 ride and hats in high school, and I still think fondly of those. I'd love to find a vintage 602 that sounds like the one John Densmore used. Paiste has a very different aesthetic than Turkish style cymbals. Which is a good thing, but not generally my thing. I hear you Tony. In years past I would run into that opinion a lot even though I would enjoy mixing in the occasional Paiste Sound Formula or 2002. I'm really "catholic" in my cymbal tastes and there's nothing better than great Turkish cymbals. A retired friend recently gave me a set of 15" Zildjian Trans Stamp hats and I love them. But I've recently caught the Paiste bug with some of their newer lines. Ragan commented that he's not looking for anything too bright or glassy, and I wouldn't use those adjectives at all with the Signature Traditionals, Masters, or their Dark Matter cymbals. I really like the dynamic range of the new Paistes and the complex way they open up. Many cymbal manufacturers are on a very dark, thin and trashy kick these days, and that can be fun. But the problem is once you start to lay into them they often choke off and become splatty--the exact opposite of what they're trying to achieve. (But that's just a pet peeve of mine and I digress.) If some folks aren't familiar with the new Paistes here's a video that shows how beautifully complex and musical they can be. It still may not be your thing Tony, and I totally respect that. There are a lot of cymbals that people love and I just scratch my head at! I'm with you, man. I'll check out the video. I don't know the Dark Matter line. My best friend and Paiste guy passed away in February, and he was always the one to know what they were up to. |
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