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Post by ragan on Oct 27, 2022 9:07:58 GMT -6
RGO drummers.
I’ve been using Zildjian K Dark crashes for years. I like them. But lately I’m finding they come a bit too far down into the midrange. I’m looking for something new to try.
I’ve always disliked very bright/glassy cymbals and I can’t stand crashes that are too loud and project-y. I want a somewhat mellow top, but something that doesn’t eat up midrange.
What should I look at?
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Post by ragan on Oct 27, 2022 9:11:43 GMT -6
Ah dang, this is in the wrong forum. Can you move this Johnkenn? |
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Post by sean on Oct 27, 2022 9:33:22 GMT -6
Woof, cymbal can be very subjective and divisive but I think the Paiste Masters Dark series is pretty universal. Works for most genres, sound great under microphones, but aren't so dark and quiet like say an Agop Signature. But, they are expensive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2022 10:25:30 GMT -6
What mics are you using? It can also be how the cymbals sound in your mics set up in your room.
Midrange issues? De-ess your overheads. Get a good dynamic eq (I can recommend Nova GE and Oxford Dynamic) and just scoop out 2-4 khz with around 1ms or so attack and release set slow enough to not trash up the cymbals.
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Post by ragan on Oct 27, 2022 10:38:22 GMT -6
What mics are you using? It can also be how the cymbals sound in your mics set up in your room. Midrange issues? De-ess your overheads. Get a good dynamic eq (I can recommend Nova GE and Oxford Dynamic) and just scoop out 2-4 khz with around 1ms or so attack and release set slow enough to not trash up the cymbals. I’m using 3U Warbler MKIDs (which are very close to U87s sonically), so they’re center-terminated, mid forward mics, but that’s not the issue. They sound great on the rest of the drums, and on the cymbals too, actually. I just want other options for crash cymbal voicing. I can for sure sculpt things and change them around at mix, but I’d rather get the source sounding how I want before resorting to that stuff. |
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Post by drumsound on Oct 27, 2022 12:13:52 GMT -6
You might check out the A Custom line for more shimmer, but staying in the Zildjian mode. I've become a big Istanbul Mahmet fan after getting an 18" Legend crash. It's still got a hand hammered vibe but the sustain is so lovely in tone and taper...
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Post by robschnapf on Oct 27, 2022 13:53:37 GMT -6
I’ve been enjoying the Istanbul Xist crashes and also the Istanbul Mel Lewis.
They also have a their version of the Paiste 602 which is nice.
Then of course there is Paiste 602s….
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Post by bgrotto on Oct 27, 2022 13:57:11 GMT -6
The Dream stuff is modestly priced, and does a nice K-ish darker/thicker tonality with some options for more brilliance up top.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2022 17:54:46 GMT -6
Meh - it works here...probably get more responses.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Oct 27, 2022 18:00:13 GMT -6
I second the A Custom direction
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 27, 2022 18:48:30 GMT -6
+1 A custom
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Post by recordingengineer on Oct 27, 2022 18:52:02 GMT -6
I’ve been wanting to try some Saludas for years… For me, the Mist X Hybrid… Maybe one day, when I’m have all the gear I want… Ha!
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Post by craigmorris74 on Oct 27, 2022 19:03:24 GMT -6
Paiste 2002 here.
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Post by svart on Oct 28, 2022 9:11:46 GMT -6
I have:
A Customs: Very bright. Can be too shimmery. Decay is quick/medium.
AAX Dark: Bright but less shimmery. Good all around. Decay is medium.
Dream: Brash-ish. More trashy sounding. Decay is medium.
Wuhan: Brash-ish. gritty sounding. Decay is medium.
K: Less bright, more brassy. Generic sounding. Decay is medium. Has some strong overtones.
K Custom hybrids: Medium bright. Lower volume. Decay is medium. Has strong frequency spikes sometimes.
Personally, I like the AAX Dark the best, but it seems the K are the more popular "artist" chosen ones.
But here's the thing.. Mic placement matters. I find that placing high-up overheads gets a "bigger picture", but it makes cymbals sound strange. Place the overheads more closely so that you get 2-3 cymbals per mic and never point the mics towards the bells of the cymbals, always the edges. MUCH better-quality cymbal sounds.
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Post by ragan on Oct 28, 2022 9:26:06 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Oct 28, 2022 9:34:54 GMT -6
Thanks for the suggestions ya’ll. For context, here’s the OH capture in my little studio. Open: https%3A//on.soundcloud.com/Ej526Tea towels: https%3A//on.soundcloud.com/i1KcgI’m generally happy with things, not really problem solving here, just looking at other options to add to the arsenal. What's that second link you shared? |
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Post by ragan on Oct 28, 2022 9:38:52 GMT -6
Thanks for the suggestions ya’ll. For context, here’s the OH capture in my little studio. Open: https%3A//on.soundcloud.com/Ej526Tea towels: https%3A//on.soundcloud.com/i1KcgI’m generally happy with things, not really problem solving here, just looking at other options to add to the arsenal. What's that second link you shared? Are they not showing up right? I’m on mobile and SoundCloud links on RGO often don’t work right for me. I switched to desktop mode to use the SC embed feature. They not working? |
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Post by ragan on Oct 28, 2022 10:44:35 GMT -6
I dunno, tried a few different things with links. Let me know if they aren’t working.
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Post by svart on Oct 28, 2022 11:06:44 GMT -6
What's that second link you shared? Are they not showing up right? I’m on mobile and SoundCloud links on RGO often don’t work right for me. I switched to desktop mode to use the SC embed feature. They not working? I can click on the link itself and it works. I was more wondering what that track was. it sounds like a mono room track or something. |
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Post by ragan on Oct 28, 2022 11:07:54 GMT -6
Are they not showing up right? I’m on mobile and SoundCloud links on RGO often don’t work right for me. I switched to desktop mode to use the SC embed feature. They not working? I can click on the link itself and it works. I was more wondering what that track was. it sounds like a mono room track or something. Oh, they’re both the (stereo) OH capture. I just don’t have them panned very hard. |
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Post by svart on Oct 28, 2022 11:23:51 GMT -6
I can click on the link itself and it works. I was more wondering what that track was. it sounds like a mono room track or something. Oh, they’re both the (stereo) OH capture. I just don’t have them panned very hard. Oh, the first link opens up to a page with a bunch of tracks. the second only goes to "TT OH". What's "tea towels"? It sounds very muffled to me. The Warbler 127 OH tracks sound great though. The cymbals do not sound overly midrange at all. |
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Post by ragan on Oct 28, 2022 11:40:00 GMT -6
Oh, they’re both the (stereo) OH capture. I just don’t have them panned very hard. Oh, the first link opens up to a page with a bunch of tracks. the second only goes to "TT OH". What's "tea towels"? It sounds very muffled to me. The Warbler 127 OH tracks sound great though. The cymbals do not sound overly midrange at all. I may have been in the processing of fixing the links when you checked, or who knows lol, SoundCloud links are a mess. The clips I was intending to share are “MKID OH Ludwig” and “MKID OH Ludwig TT”. TT = tea towels = thin hand towels used for dampening. Classic 60s thing (Ringo in particular). But yeah, that SoundCloud has a bunch of clips on it. And I agree, the Warbler 127 are nice OH mics (nice mics in general). I like LDCs better usually, but that’s all subjective of course. |
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Post by RealNoob on Oct 28, 2022 15:35:08 GMT -6
Been a while since purchasing but I focus on thin, fast crashes as they do their thing and then get out of the way, as compared to others that linger with a slower decay. But with that in mind, I never buy unless I can go to the wall of cymbals and match the crashes (complimentary - very subjective, of course).
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Post by jampa on Oct 28, 2022 17:07:26 GMT -6
I'm a paiste lad - traditionals and 602ME. the trads do the dark/short/trashy thing but not too much
Istanbul Agop have heaps like that
Meinl (Byzance in particular) have a metric ton like that
Generally less mass and more surface disturbance (e.g. hammering, holes) = less decay
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 28, 2022 19:14:56 GMT -6
I like and use all cymbals and I'm not a loyalist to any one brand. However, I just toured all summer and before I left bought a 17" Paiste thin Signature Traditional crash. It turns out to be the most beautiful sounding versatile crash I've owned to date. It sounds good no matter what volume it's played--warm and sweet when hit lightly, but has that nice musical Paiste high shimmer when laid into. And being a Paiste you don't have to worry about getting a good one--with their manufacturing consistency they're all good. I like the 2002s, but these are nothing like that--much more dimensional and useful. I'm surprised by the love for Custom As here--I've never hit one that I liked!
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