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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 17:13:25 GMT -6
There's probably nothing more prosaic than a direct box. But I don't have one, so I wouldn't mind a comment or two. This will be mainly for guitars (with passive p'ups), but might occasionally see a bass. I'm looking for something that doesn't impart color--just passes along the sound of the pickups. Mono is all I need, but I'll have a cable run of 20-25 feet, so I suspect I'll need an active box.
The Warm Audio WA-DI-A looks interesting. Price isn't unreasonable and the feature set looks pretty good. I don't own anything from Warm, but they seem to get a lot of love around here. Anybody have that one? Or perhaps a counter-offer?
Thanks much for any comments you care to make!
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Post by EmRR on Oct 24, 2022 19:25:20 GMT -6
Hard to beat the Radial offerings for utility. You can get pretty esoteric, like the Zod.
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Post by winetree on Oct 24, 2022 19:25:46 GMT -6
Haven't used the Warm DI.
All of my D.I.s, Factory and DIY, have Jensen transformers and are passive.
Cable lenght shouldn't determine whether you choose the DI to be active or passive.
Active electronics (+48v) replace a transformer. Different sound.
The Cinemag is a good transformer, it's not one of those tiny one dollar ones..
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Post by ragan on Oct 24, 2022 21:46:49 GMT -6
I really like the Countryman Type 85. It sounds clear, more so than my passive Radial, which is also fine and adequate.
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Post by anders on Oct 24, 2022 23:43:40 GMT -6
I'm looking for something that doesn't impart color--just passes along the sound of the pickups. "The sound of the pickups" is not a fixed quantity. From memory: Electric guitar pickups are high impedance, and, due to the circuit will have a low pass filtering effect with a resonant peak (they're technically state variable filters). At what frequency this peak and filtering occurs will depend on the inductance and capacitance of the circuit – largely determined by the inductance of the pickup itself, any tone caps on the guitar, and the cable (with a longer cable often having more capacitance, and hence moving the resonance downwards, and giving the "wanna sound like Hendrix, use a 30' coily cable" trope). How tall the resonance peak is, is determined by the impedance seen by the circuit, and this can make a quite significant tone difference. A standard tube amp will be in the region of 1 M ohm. Some DIs (and some guitar pedals) can be as low as 1/20th of that, giving a duller sound, due to the presence peak being less pronounced. At the other extreme you have circuits like the Zvex Super HardOn booster pedal with a 5 M ohm input impedance, giving a signal that might even be a bit on the bright side, because of the tall peak. But this peak can be tamed by rolling back the guitar volume a hair or two. If you want to record a signal for reamping, you might want to have an input impedance more in the 1 M region than, for instance the 68k ohm input of a Palmer passive DI. That box can give you a round bass sound, but it will not be transparent. My personal preference is either using a SHO booster clone (or an other hi Z in guitar pedal in front of the DI) or going into a 500 rack device with HiZ in. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 25, 2022 0:00:24 GMT -6
It's hard to argue with the Stereo Radial ones. Cause its stereo in a small package. Great thing to keep in the travel kit.
DIYRE also sells some nice ones in kit form and they are super easy to build and sound good. You've got options too.
Then the sky is the limit for other options.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 6:42:56 GMT -6
I'm looking for something that doesn't impart color--just passes along the sound of the pickups. "The sound of the pickups" is not a fixed quantity. From memory: Electric guitar pickups are high impedance, and, due to the circuit will have a low pass filtering effect with a resonant peak (they're technically state variable filters). At what frequency this peak and filtering occurs will depend on the inductance and capacitance of the circuit – largely determined by the inductance of the pickup itself, any tone caps on the guitar, and the cable (with a longer cable often having more capacitance, and hence moving the resonance downwards, and giving the "wanna sound like Hendrix, use a 30' coily cable" trope). How tall the resonance peak is, is determined by the impedance seen by the circuit, and this can make a quite significant tone difference. A standard tube amp will be in the region of 1 M ohm. Some DIs (and some guitar pedals) can be as low as 1/20th of that, giving a duller sound, due to the presence peak being less pronounced. At the other extreme you have circuits like the Zvex Super HardOn booster pedal with a 5 M ohm input impedance, giving a signal that might even be a bit on the bright side, because of the tall peak. But this peak can be tamed by rolling back the guitar volume a hair or two. If you want to record a signal for reamping, you might want to have an input impedance more in the 1 M region than, for instance the 68k ohm input of a Palmer passive DI. That box can give you a round bass sound, but it will not be transparent. My personal preference is either using a SHO booster clone (or an other hi Z in guitar pedal in front of the DI) or going into a 500 rack device with HiZ in. That's all quite true of course and well worth repeating. I should have said that I'm not looking for a DI that imparts a character similar to a specific amp. I'm a jazz player and my amp is a Henricksen Blu. My general sound includes no pedals at all. But I also have a semi-hollow that doesn't give me much acoustic output (as opposed to my Benedetto), so it invlites a little more tonal flexibility. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 25, 2022 6:58:22 GMT -6
I'd also say if your recording yourself I'd use a nice ribbon on the amp. I've used a router sf1 several times on jazz guitar with GREAT success even when the amp is less than 3' from the drum set. Sounds way better than any DI and the isolation is so good I haven't used a DI in a long time. Plus get the full time of whatever sound it is you have post amp. So guitar players are always happy.
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Post by Quint on Oct 25, 2022 7:33:15 GMT -6
I have some Little Labs Redeyes because they sound good, can work active or passive and also are very capable reamping tools. I have these dedicated to guitars.
I also have some Rupert Neve RNDIs because they sound good, can take speaker level signal (if need be), and are just rock solid. I have these dedicated to bass, and various keyboards/organs.
All of these DIs have transformers in them, which is nice for isolation purposes.
If you're looking for something for guitars, specifically, I'd look at the Redeyes. I think they're a great multi-faceted tool for guitars and can cover most any guitar situation.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 31, 2022 11:26:28 GMT -6
The character comes from a transformer. I like the reversed UTC microphone transformers we used before commercial products came on the market. Most of the commercial ones I've tried, including Jensen, didn't have enough character or headroom.
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Post by notneeson on Nov 1, 2022 11:30:31 GMT -6
"The sound of the pickups" is not a fixed quantity. From memory: Electric guitar pickups are high impedance, and, due to the circuit will have a low pass filtering effect with a resonant peak (they're technically state variable filters). At what frequency this peak and filtering occurs will depend on the inductance and capacitance of the circuit – largely determined by the inductance of the pickup itself, any tone caps on the guitar, and the cable (with a longer cable often having more capacitance, and hence moving the resonance downwards, and giving the "wanna sound like Hendrix, use a 30' coily cable" trope). How tall the resonance peak is, is determined by the impedance seen by the circuit, and this can make a quite significant tone difference. A standard tube amp will be in the region of 1 M ohm. Some DIs (and some guitar pedals) can be as low as 1/20th of that, giving a duller sound, due to the presence peak being less pronounced. At the other extreme you have circuits like the Zvex Super HardOn booster pedal with a 5 M ohm input impedance, giving a signal that might even be a bit on the bright side, because of the tall peak. But this peak can be tamed by rolling back the guitar volume a hair or two. If you want to record a signal for reamping, you might want to have an input impedance more in the 1 M region than, for instance the 68k ohm input of a Palmer passive DI. That box can give you a round bass sound, but it will not be transparent. My personal preference is either using a SHO booster clone (or an other hi Z in guitar pedal in front of the DI) or going into a 500 rack device with HiZ in. That's all quite true of course and well worth repeating. I should have said that I'm not looking for a DI that imparts a character similar to a specific amp. I'm a jazz player and my amp is a Henricksen Blu. My general sound includes no pedals at all. But I also have a semi-hollow that doesn't give me much acoustic output (as opposed to my Benedetto), so it invlites a little more tonal flexibility. RND DI (based solely on reputation) and the little labs IPB both come to mind for very hifi options. The IPB is a seldom discussed, but excellent DI. |
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Post by svart on Nov 2, 2022 9:24:48 GMT -6
I really like the Countryman Type 85. It sounds clear, more so than my passive Radial, which is also fine and adequate. I have 4 of the Type 85 DI's. Great, all around DI's. However, I've noticed over the years of using them that they do indeed have a tone of their own. I also have a Littlelabs Redeye 3D which I think is overall a more neutral DI and its usefulness as a reamp box can't be overstated either. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2022 11:10:57 GMT -6
Hey guys, I really appreciate the advice I got from you all. I was really tempted by Radial--looks like you could drive a truck over it. Many others looked very good, but had features I don't need (like re-amping). In the end I decided to go with Warm Audio. It has a name-brand transformer (Cinemag) with very high input impedance, so the pickup load should be small. I also like the feature that you can turn off the active mode and have a passive in the same box. Pad is variable, polarity flip and ground-lift. Feature-wise it ticks the boxes for me, so I'll just have to see if it delivers  |
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Post by Ward on Nov 20, 2022 18:01:05 GMT -6
I really like the Countryman Type 85. It sounds clear, more so than my passive Radial, which is also fine and adequate. I have 4 of the Type 85 DI's. Great, all around DI's. However, I've noticed over the years of using them that they do indeed have a tone of their own. I also have a Littlelabs Redeye 3D which I think is overall a more neutral DI and its usefulness as a reamp box can't be overstated either. I find myself falling back to the Countryman time and time again . . . probably because of that tone that I have become accustomed to. But I also really like the Avalon U5 . . . still after all these years. (ok, 30 years with the Countrymen) |
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Post by Ned Ward on Nov 21, 2022 11:51:54 GMT -6
Start with a Radial JDI and then see what you need from there.
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Post by sparky on Mar 10, 2023 16:50:54 GMT -6
Hey guys, I really appreciate the advice I got from you all. I was really tempted by Radial--looks like you could drive a truck over it. Many others looked very good, but had features I don't need (like re-amping). In the end I decided to go with Warm Audio. It has a name-brand transformer (Cinemag) with very high input impedance, so the pickup load should be small. I also like the feature that you can turn off the active mode and have a passive in the same box. Pad is variable, polarity flip and ground-lift. Feature-wise it ticks the boxes for me, so I'll just have to see if it delivers Bit of a zombie bump but yeah, I grabbed one of these a few months back as well and I'm pretty impressed. I've had a bunch of Radial and other DI boxes over the years and it's definitely up to the job. The active/passive options and other features fit virtually any of my needs for my various instruments from the hottest of active bass pickups through to my relatively low output vintage passives. |
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Post by srb on Apr 5, 2023 18:47:09 GMT -6
Late to the party here, but Radial works well here.
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Post by soundtech on Apr 7, 2023 17:15:40 GMT -6
Countryman Type 85 here. Be aware that they are pin 3 hot - may or may not be an issue in your application.
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Post by nick8801 on Apr 17, 2023 11:34:15 GMT -6
No problems here with my Radial boxes, but on a whim a few weeks ago I picked up an old Digitech Hot Head pedal. It has a DI out, and the pedals controls are great for shaping some vibe into your track. I've been using it for bass mostly. I keep the volume up pretty high to keep it clean, and I'll blend in the dirt to taste depending on the track. The bass and treble controls are great for shaping the sound exactly as you want it in your track. Fun stuff, and it was only 28 bux!
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Post by Ward on Apr 20, 2023 5:24:23 GMT -6
No problems here with my Radial boxes, but on a whim a few weeks ago I picked up an old Digitech Hot Head pedal. It has a DI out, and the pedals controls are great for shaping some vibe into your track. I've been using it for bass mostly. I keep the volume up pretty high to keep it clean, and I'll blend in the dirt to taste depending on the track. The bass and treble controls are great for shaping the sound exactly as you want it in your track. Fun stuff, and it was only 28 bux! Killer deal! |
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Post by sentientsound on Apr 26, 2023 15:39:18 GMT -6
For "neutral" I don't think you can go wrong with a Radial or Little Labs.
The Countryman are excellent too. To my ears they do have some character but it's very subtle and never gets in the way. Just kind of a subtle firmness or solidity.
That said, it may well be in my head as it's hard to A/B direct boxes carefully.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 26, 2023 22:14:21 GMT -6
For "neutral" I don't think you can go wrong with a Radial or Little Labs. The Countryman are excellent too. To my ears they do have some character but it's very subtle and never gets in the way. Just kind of a subtle firmness or solidity. That said, it may well be in my head as it's hard to A/B direct boxes carefully. I don’t disagree, but I also think the little labs (in my case IPB) and the Radial are very different flavors of clean. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 1, 2023 7:05:13 GMT -6
I'm surprised I didn't say this before. What is critical is that you are recording exactly whatever you or others are hearing. That means if you are recording with a direct box, you want to be listening to a studio monitor. Ear to finger feedback has a far more significant effect on "tone" than anything farther down the chain.
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Post by nnajar on Jul 1, 2023 9:50:57 GMT -6
Michael, You should look at the fire eye red eye preamp/di. I use it with the buscarino arch tops, passive piezos, bass, Rhodes, etc…. For exactly the sounds you like it’s the right box. The passive instrument sees an input it prefers so it passes on the right sound. Really excellent box. www.fire-eye.com/red-eye-1 |
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Post by tim on Jul 6, 2023 15:47:00 GMT -6
… I'm looking for something that doesn't impart color--just passes along the sound of the pickups…. Have you tried the Michael Wagener, MW1? Cleanest DI I’ve ever heard. Transformerless and just boosts instrument level up to line instead of knocking it down to mic level then up. Plus lots of other cool features. It’s way more than just a DI though. Got two on the way after demoing one. www.creationaudiolabs.com/mw1studiotool |
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