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Post by Quint on Sept 29, 2022 10:22:16 GMT -6
I'm still investigating my final stand setup for my new pair of Neumann KH310s. I got to looking at the potential for wall mounting them and wanted to see if any of you had successfuly wall mounted your monitors? To be clear, I'm not talking about flush mounting or anything like that. I'm just talking about mounting them to the surface of the wall behind them, using some kind wall mount system. I know that conventional wisdom calls for stands, in no small part because of their ability to decouple, provided they are rigid and heavy/dense enough to do so. However, I noticed Neumann actually sells a few different options for directly mounting to the wall. This is one of the options (LH45 + LH 25) below (though I'm open to other ideas, even if they're not a Neumann product): en-de.neumann.com/kh-310-on-a-wall-3What do you think? Am I just going to run into undesired issues or is this worth considering?
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Post by drbill on Sept 29, 2022 10:50:52 GMT -6
It's not my preference, but I've had to do it before. Never with my main mixing monitors though. Omnimounts will get you there as well. They do tend to sag with heavy monitors though. Fine with lighter ones.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 29, 2022 11:10:07 GMT -6
I'm still investigating my final stand setup for my new pair of Neumann KH310s. I got to looking at the potential for wall mounting them and wanted to see if any of you had successfuly wall mounted your monitors? To be clear, I'm not talking about flush mounting or anything like that. I'm just talking about mounting them to the surface of the wall behind them, using some kind wall mount system. I know that conventional wisdom calls for stands, in no small part because of their ability to decouple, provided they are rigid and heavy/dense enough to do so. However, I noticed Neumann actually sells a few different options for directly mounting to the wall. This is one of the options (LH45 + LH 25) below (though I'm open to other ideas, even if they're not a Neumann product): en-de.neumann.com/kh-310-on-a-wall-3What do you think? Am I just going to run into undesired issues or is this worth considering? If I remember right the KH310’s have enough EQ settings to in general compensate for mounting close to the walls, but here is the thing I’m doubting your going to be able to find the ideal position without tearing off some drywall, bracing between studs. Plus if you do all that and later on decide you want to experiment to see if you can find a better position your pretty much out of luck. I’m also making a major assumption that the hardware they supply is all rated for 7 times the load. That is the standard for any dynamic loadi
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Post by svart on Sept 29, 2022 11:17:50 GMT -6
Acoustically I don't think it's an issue. I think the biggest issue is the mounting itself because you'd need to mount into studs. Drywall itself won't hold the weight.
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Post by Quint on Sept 29, 2022 11:20:28 GMT -6
I'm still investigating my final stand setup for my new pair of Neumann KH310s. I got to looking at the potential for wall mounting them and wanted to see if any of you had successfuly wall mounted your monitors? To be clear, I'm not talking about flush mounting or anything like that. I'm just talking about mounting them to the surface of the wall behind them, using some kind wall mount system. I know that conventional wisdom calls for stands, in no small part because of their ability to decouple, provided they are rigid and heavy/dense enough to do so. However, I noticed Neumann actually sells a few different options for directly mounting to the wall. This is one of the options (LH45 + LH 25) below (though I'm open to other ideas, even if they're not a Neumann product): en-de.neumann.com/kh-310-on-a-wall-3What do you think? Am I just going to run into undesired issues or is this worth considering? If I remember right the KH310’s have enough EQ settings to in general compensate for mounting close to the walls, but here is the thing I’m doubting your going to be able to find the ideal position without tearing off some drywall, bracing between studs. Plus if you do all that and later on decide you want to experiment to see if you can find a better position your pretty much out of luck. I’m also making a major assumption that the hardware they supply is all rated for 7 times the load. That is the standard for any dynamic loadi Well, as luck would have it, I am building out (retrofitting) a frame for a large bass trap (2 ft thick x 8 ft tall x 8 ft wide)) at this position, so I am free to add whatever sort of bracing I want, as well as a large enough surface to screw into to accomodate different horizontal or vertical positioning. Basically, these monitors would be attached to the framing of the large bass trap. As for positioning in general, I don't have a ton of flexibility as it is, due to space constraints. They can't come a whole lot forward or backward, so they generally were planned to sit up next to the bass trap anyway. What's your opinion of that Neumann mounting system? Is it going to cause a bunch of issues with coupling? What about other competing wall mount systems? Or am I just inviting pain by even considering wall mount? The potential coupling issues and acoustics are my two biggest concerns here, though I feel like the 2 foot thick large bass trap directly behind the monitors would largely take care of the acoustic concerns, which leaves me mostly worrying about coupling concerns.
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Post by Quint on Sept 29, 2022 11:21:38 GMT -6
Acoustically I don't think it's an issue. I think the biggest issue is the mounting itself because you'd need to mount into studs. Drywall itself won't hold the weight. See my response to Eric above. Were I to go this route, the plan would have always been to screw directly into wood. I'd never try to hang that much weight off of sheetrock.
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Post by ericn on Sept 29, 2022 11:29:14 GMT -6
If I remember right the KH310’s have enough EQ settings to in general compensate for mounting close to the walls, but here is the thing I’m doubting your going to be able to find the ideal position without tearing off some drywall, bracing between studs. Plus if you do all that and later on decide you want to experiment to see if you can find a better position your pretty much out of luck. I’m also making a major assumption that the hardware they supply is all rated for 7 times the load. That is the standard for any dynamic loadi Well, as luck would have it, I am building out (retrofitting) a frame for a large bass trap (2 ft thick x 8 ft tall x 8 ft wide)) at this position, so I am free to add whatever sort of bracing I want, as well as a large enough surface to screw into to accomodate different horizontal or vertical positioning. Basically, these monitors would be attached to the framing of the large bass trap. As for positioning in general, I don't have a ton of flexibility as it is, due to space constraints. They can't come a whole lot forward or backward, so they generally were planned to sit up next to the bass trap anyway. What's your opinion of that Neumann mounting system? Is it going to cause a bunch of issues with coupling? What about other competing wall mount systems? Or am I just inviting pain by even considering wall mount? Damn that look like one hell of a mount ! I expected a relabeled Omnimount ! Worst case you might want to add some DSP to solve some issues. Screw and glue the braces supporting the brackets and if you can screw some of those Hurricane T brackets and you should be fine.
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Post by Quint on Sept 29, 2022 11:37:14 GMT -6
Well, as luck would have it, I am building out (retrofitting) a frame for a large bass trap (2 ft thick x 8 ft tall x 8 ft wide)) at this position, so I am free to add whatever sort of bracing I want, as well as a large enough surface to screw into to accomodate different horizontal or vertical positioning. Basically, these monitors would be attached to the framing of the large bass trap. As for positioning in general, I don't have a ton of flexibility as it is, due to space constraints. They can't come a whole lot forward or backward, so they generally were planned to sit up next to the bass trap anyway. What's your opinion of that Neumann mounting system? Is it going to cause a bunch of issues with coupling? What about other competing wall mount systems? Or am I just inviting pain by even considering wall mount? Damn that look like one hell of a mount ! I expected a relabeled Omnimount ! Worst case you might want to add some DSP to solve some issues. Screw and glue the braces supporting the brackets and if you can screw some of those Hurricane T brackets and you should be fine. So you don't see an issue with these Neumann mounts coupling my KH310s with the bass trap frame and surrounding wall? One nice thing about these particular mounts is that they DO facilitate some degree of positioning flexibility after the fact. You can move them in or out away from the wall (bass trap, in my case) a little bit, depending on which hole you choose in the mount arm, plus you can also swivel and tilt.
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Post by svart on Sept 29, 2022 11:43:30 GMT -6
Damn that look like one hell of a mount ! I expected a relabeled Omnimount ! Worst case you might want to add some DSP to solve some issues. Screw and glue the braces supporting the brackets and if you can screw some of those Hurricane T brackets and you should be fine. So you don't see an issue with these Neumann mounts coupling my KH310s with the bass trap frame and surrounding wall? One nice thing about these particular mounts is that they DO facilitate some degree of positioning flexibility after the fact. You can move them in or out away from the wall (bass trap, in my case) a little bit, depending on which hole you choose in the mount arm, plus you can also swivel and tilt. I don't. The KH310 doesn't resonate very much thanks to the heavy cabinet. The small points of contact between the box and the bracket and the bracket to the arm look like they should reduce vibration transfer pretty well. The drawing makes it look like the bracket adapter (LH47) might have rubber bushings or something, but I can't see them in the actual picture.
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Post by Quint on Sept 29, 2022 12:00:00 GMT -6
So you don't see an issue with these Neumann mounts coupling my KH310s with the bass trap frame and surrounding wall? One nice thing about these particular mounts is that they DO facilitate some degree of positioning flexibility after the fact. You can move them in or out away from the wall (bass trap, in my case) a little bit, depending on which hole you choose in the mount arm, plus you can also swivel and tilt. I don't. The KH310 doesn't resonate very much thanks to the heavy cabinet. The small points of contact between the box and the bracket and the bracket to the arm look like they should reduce vibration transfer pretty well. The drawing makes it look like the bracket adapter (LH47) might have rubber bushings or something, but I can't see them in the actual picture. Yeah, I was having a hard time trying to figure that out about the LH 47 myself. It seems like you might able to add such a rubber bushing if you desired though. Another benefit of a system like this is that it looks like that LH47 bracket allows for a semi-quick mount or demount, if I want to just temporarily move one of the monitors out of the way. This is nice because I've been struggling with how I was going to get to the rear of my console every now amd then without completely upsetting my careful monitor placement, if said monitors were placed on stands that had to be moved out of the way everytime I wanted to get back there. I wasn't looking forward to having to move out of the way and then reposition the stands and monitors everytime I wanted back behind the console.
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Post by ericn on Sept 29, 2022 15:39:59 GMT -6
So you don't see an issue with these Neumann mounts coupling my KH310s with the bass trap frame and surrounding wall? One nice thing about these particular mounts is that they DO facilitate some degree of positioning flexibility after the fact. You can move them in or out away from the wall (bass trap, in my case) a little bit, depending on which hole you choose in the mount arm, plus you can also swivel and tilt. I don't. The KH310 doesn't resonate very much thanks to the heavy cabinet. The small points of contact between the box and the bracket and the bracket to the arm look like they should reduce vibration transfer pretty well. The drawing makes it look like the bracket adapter (LH47) might have rubber bushings or something, but I can't see them in the actual picture. I doubt that they use much for isolation, the rubber would have to carry the load in all directions and that type of isolation device would be huge.
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Post by ericn on Sept 29, 2022 15:41:59 GMT -6
Damn that look like one hell of a mount ! I expected a relabeled Omnimount ! Worst case you might want to add some DSP to solve some issues. Screw and glue the braces supporting the brackets and if you can screw some of those Hurricane T brackets and you should be fine. So you don't see an issue with these Neumann mounts coupling my KH310s with the bass trap frame and surrounding wall? One nice thing about these particular mounts is that they DO facilitate some degree of positioning flexibility after the fact. You can move them in or out away from the wall (bass trap, in my case) a little bit, depending on which hole you choose in the mount arm, plus you can also swivel and tilt. I think you should be fine with these mounts, my best guess is they were not designed by the typical speaker mount guys but by people who fly PA’s.
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Post by Quint on Sept 29, 2022 19:53:17 GMT -6
So you don't see an issue with these Neumann mounts coupling my KH310s with the bass trap frame and surrounding wall? One nice thing about these particular mounts is that they DO facilitate some degree of positioning flexibility after the fact. You can move them in or out away from the wall (bass trap, in my case) a little bit, depending on which hole you choose in the mount arm, plus you can also swivel and tilt. I think you should be fine with these mounts, my best guess is they were not designed by the typical speaker mount guys but by people who fly PA’s. That's good to hear. Your confidence in this mounting system gives me confidence to give it a try. If this won't cause any coupling concerns, I may just have to pull the trigger on these Neumann mounts.
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Post by drbill on Sept 30, 2022 6:45:40 GMT -6
I've been struggling with how I was going to get to the rear of my console every now amd then without completely upsetting my careful monitor placement, if said monitors were placed on stands that had to be moved out of the way everytime I wanted to get back there. Yeah, that is an issue. I've got the same problem. Luckily with a patch bay I don't need to get back there too often, but yeah, it's definitely an issue that wall mounted would solve!
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Post by Quint on Dec 12, 2022 16:03:21 GMT -6
I don't. The KH310 doesn't resonate very much thanks to the heavy cabinet. The small points of contact between the box and the bracket and the bracket to the arm look like they should reduce vibration transfer pretty well. The drawing makes it look like the bracket adapter (LH47) might have rubber bushings or something, but I can't see them in the actual picture. I doubt that they use much for isolation, the rubber would have to carry the load in all directions and that type of isolation device would be huge. So I just came across these, which are actually made to work (via an additional adaptor) with the previously discussed Neumann mounts. vintageking.com/isoacoustics-v120-mountBasically, these decouplers go between the mounting arm and the monitor, much in the same way the more typical Isoacoustics pucks would go between the monitor and the stand. The big difference here, of course, is that the more traditional pucks that everyone knows about sit under the monitor where as, with the product I linked to above, the monitor is suspended by this decoupling device. Eric have you (or anybody else) used one of these or do you have any thoughts? Are they worth it, or am I just wasting money on something like this?
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Post by ericn on Dec 12, 2022 17:12:05 GMT -6
I doubt that they use much for isolation, the rubber would have to carry the load in all directions and that type of isolation device would be huge. So I just came across these, which are actually made to work (via an additional adaptor) with the previously discussed Neumann mounts. vintageking.com/isoacoustics-v120-mountBasically, these decouplers go between the mounting arm and the monitor, much in the same way the more typical Isoacoustics pucks would go between the monitor and the stand. The big difference here, of course, is that the more traditional pucks that everyone knows about sit under the monitor where as, with the product I linked to above, the monitor is suspended by this decoupling device. Eric have you (or anybody else) used one of these or do you have any thoughts? Are they worth it, or am I just wasting money on something like this? I could feed you a bunch of bulls-+ either way but the honest answer is I don’t know. First I have to say if you dig deep enough you will find that nothing this small is going to be full bandwidth, these types are all tuned. Now here is my biggest worry on something like this, I want to see some real data on what kind of load it’s rated for and what kind of safety factor they use ( if it’s less than 7X run away a speaker is a dynamic load because it vibrates and that’s the minimum). The other thing is if Neumann finds out I’m using these do I still have a warranty. I am always hesitant to insert an unknown in to any “flying system”, I have seen the results when someone who thinks they are in the words of Homer S-M-R-T, don’t understand the basics of hanging a heavy load and the science involved.
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Post by Quint on Dec 12, 2022 17:19:20 GMT -6
So I just came across these, which are actually made to work (via an additional adaptor) with the previously discussed Neumann mounts. vintageking.com/isoacoustics-v120-mountBasically, these decouplers go between the mounting arm and the monitor, much in the same way the more typical Isoacoustics pucks would go between the monitor and the stand. The big difference here, of course, is that the more traditional pucks that everyone knows about sit under the monitor where as, with the product I linked to above, the monitor is suspended by this decoupling device. Eric have you (or anybody else) used one of these or do you have any thoughts? Are they worth it, or am I just wasting money on something like this? I could feed you a bunch of bulls-+ either way but the honest answer is I don’t know. First I have to say if you dig deep enough you will find that nothing this small is going to be full bandwidth, these types are all tuned. Now here is my biggest worry on something like this, I want to see some real data on what kind of load it’s rated for and what kind of safety factor they use ( if it’s less than 7X run away a speaker is a dynamic load because it vibrates and that’s the minimum). The other thing is if Neumann finds out I’m using these do I still have a warranty. I am always hesitant to insert an unknown in to any “flying system”, I have seen the results when someone who thinks they are in the words of Homer S-M-R-T, don’t understand the basics of hanging a heavy load and the science involved. Yep, these are all concerns I've had about this particular Isoacoustics product. I've been worried about the design and what "could" happen. Would Isoacoustics buy me a new monitor if their system failed and my monitors came crashing down to the floor. Also, how much benefit will something like the V120 actually provide? I don't know. I believe that Isoacoustics says the V120 decoupler is rated for up to 40 lbs. The Neumann KH310 weighs 28.6 lbs, for whatever that's worth. You're not giving me confidence in purchasing these. Hmmm...
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Post by ericn on Dec 12, 2022 17:25:56 GMT -6
I could feed you a bunch of bulls-+ either way but the honest answer is I don’t know. First I have to say if you dig deep enough you will find that nothing this small is going to be full bandwidth, these types are all tuned. Now here is my biggest worry on something like this, I want to see some real data on what kind of load it’s rated for and what kind of safety factor they use ( if it’s less than 7X run away a speaker is a dynamic load because it vibrates and that’s the minimum). The other thing is if Neumann finds out I’m using these do I still have a warranty. I am always hesitant to insert an unknown in to any “flying system”, I have seen the results when someone who thinks they are in the words of Homer S-M-R-T, don’t understand the basics of hanging a heavy load and the science involved. Yep, these are all concerns I've had about this particular Isoacoustics product. I believe that Isoacoustics says the V120 decoupler is rated for up to 40 lbs. The Neumann KH310 weighs 28.6 lbs, for whatever that's worth. You're not giving me confidence in purchasing these. Hmmm... Yeah if it’s 40 pounds with no safety factor hell NO!, ask Neumann if they recommend them if not NO, I mean the most basic thought is your using a smaller fixture to carry the load and using some kind of mechanical dampening, so logic says they are not as capable of carrying the load.
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Post by Quint on Dec 12, 2022 17:47:30 GMT -6
Yep, these are all concerns I've had about this particular Isoacoustics product. I believe that Isoacoustics says the V120 decoupler is rated for up to 40 lbs. The Neumann KH310 weighs 28.6 lbs, for whatever that's worth. You're not giving me confidence in purchasing these. Hmmm... Yeah if it’s 40 pounds with no safety factor hell NO!, ask Neumann if they recommend them if not NO, I mean the most basic thought is your using a smaller fixture to carry the load and using some kind of mechanical dampening, so logic says they are not as capable of carrying the load. I'm not sure if I follow what you're saying about the "smaller fixture", but I generally get what you're saying about safety factor. Just to be clear, the picture at the link below shows how this Isoacoustics product mounts between the wall arm and the monitor. vintageking.com/media/catalog/product/cache/c8660c81d7196df55c33284290821786/i/s/isoacoustics-v120_182205_3.jpg
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