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Post by bikescene on Sept 6, 2022 11:17:17 GMT -6
For the time being, I’m setting up my basement for mixing and some tracking for personal projects. The ceiling height kind of sucks at 7ft and it has a 2x2 drop ceiling grid. It might be not a permanent space, so ripping out the ceiling grid is not an option at this time.
Do you guys have experience putting insulation above ceiling tile? I saw that Realtraps has 3” thick ceiling tiles for absorption. And I’ve come across multiple ceiling grid diffusion products, in which absorption is recommended to be installed behind the diffuser. I believe I have enough space to shove in 4” of OC703 above a tile.
Is there a specific type of ceiling tile that you could recommend that isn’t particularly reflective that can be used in conjunction with fiberglass?
I suppose I can look into building a cloud suspended below the drop ceiling.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 6, 2022 16:11:16 GMT -6
I think one of the problems with this kind of typical ceiling (I have it) is what it absorbs versus reflects. I had someone suggest I pull some tiles to increase reflectivity in a quest for balance.
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Post by keymod on Sept 11, 2022 5:07:19 GMT -6
I have seen some interesting, somewhat 3dimensional, ceiling tiles for sale at Lowe's. At one point I was considering replacing some of the tiles in my studio with them.
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Post by bikescene on Sept 11, 2022 15:12:52 GMT -6
A couple more searches and I saw that Armstrong has high-ish NRC of 0.80 (for a 7/8” thick piece) with their Ultima series tiles. I think I will try to stick some 703 above the existing tiles first. Maybe I’ll upgrade the ceiling tiles in the near future.
I need to get a cheap measurement mic and start playing with Room EQ Wizard.
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Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Sept 13, 2022 8:59:05 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Sept 13, 2022 15:20:42 GMT -6
I looked into the idea of ceiling tiles, but the issue I kept encountering, that kept me from trying it, was that, if I wanted the pink fluffy insulation above said tiles to do the bass trapping job it was intended to do, it seemed like the ceiling tiles would prevent air flow into the pink fluffy insulation.
Without the air flow, the superior gas flow resistivity (GFR) of the pink fluffy insulation would be inhibited by the ceiling tiles below them blocking the ability of air to move into the pink fluffy. At least that's how it seemed to me.
Traditional advice involved using a breathable fabric to cover pink fluffy. The problem is that, if used on a ceiling, you would get a lot of sag. The ceiling tiles would provide some nice rigidity, but reduce the overall gas GFR.
Anybody got any further thoughts on this?
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 13, 2022 15:43:09 GMT -6
I looked into the idea of ceiling tiles, but the issue I kept encountering, that kept me from trying it, was that, if I wanted the pink fluffy insulation above said tiles to do the bass trapping job it was intended to do, it seemed like the ceiling tiles would prevent air flow into the pink fluffy insulation. Without the air flow, the superior gas flow resistivity (GFR) of the pink fluffy insulation would be inhibited by the ceiling tiles below them blocking the ability of air to move into the pink fluffy. At least that's how it seemed to me. Traditional advice involved using a breathable fabric to cover pink fluffy. The problem is that, if used on a ceiling, you would get a lot of sag. The ceiling tiles would provide some nice rigidity, but reduce the overall gas GFR. Anybody got any further thoughts on this? I think those are well thought out concerns but in real life we have to deal with the compromises  I’d go with pink fluffy, like Roxul safe’n sound, above the tiles. The tiles may block some airflow, but they’re not massive enough to stop bass frequencies. In fact, it might actually help by keeping more midrange and high end in the room to balance the absorption across the spectrum….it’s really easy to suck all the high end out, ya know? I’d think of it similar to putting wooden slats in front of an absorption wall. In the end though it’s kind like, “try it and see how it sounds”. The biggest takeaway I have from building out a few different home studios is to do it in stages. Put up some absorption, listen/measure…and then continue as you go. There are always surprises so I’ve learned not to over commit in one particular direction |
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Post by Quint on Sept 14, 2022 8:43:06 GMT -6
I looked into the idea of ceiling tiles, but the issue I kept encountering, that kept me from trying it, was that, if I wanted the pink fluffy insulation above said tiles to do the bass trapping job it was intended to do, it seemed like the ceiling tiles would prevent air flow into the pink fluffy insulation. Without the air flow, the superior gas flow resistivity (GFR) of the pink fluffy insulation would be inhibited by the ceiling tiles below them blocking the ability of air to move into the pink fluffy. At least that's how it seemed to me. Traditional advice involved using a breathable fabric to cover pink fluffy. The problem is that, if used on a ceiling, you would get a lot of sag. The ceiling tiles would provide some nice rigidity, but reduce the overall gas GFR. Anybody got any further thoughts on this? I think those are well thought out concerns but in real life we have to deal with the compromises I’d go with pink fluffy, like Roxul safe’n sound, above the tiles. The tiles may block some airflow, but they’re not massive enough to stop bass frequencies. In fact, it might actually help by keeping more midrange and high end in the room to balance the absorption across the spectrum….it’s really easy to suck all the high end out, ya know? I’d think of it similar to putting wooden slats in front of an absorption wall. In the end though it’s kind like, “try it and see how it sounds”. The biggest takeaway I have from building out a few different home studios is to do it in stages. Put up some absorption, listen/measure…and then continue as you go. There are always surprises so I’ve learned not to over commit in one particular direction I hear that you're saying, and don't necessarily disagree, but I'm still going to try to figure out some kind of way to do it that still involves breathable fabric, if I can. I was looking into using cattle panel or some other kind of relatively rigid panel of some kind that would hold the pink fluffy in place. Then stretch fabric over that. Were I to look into ceiling tiles though, I think I'd maybe be looking at standard tiles used for a typical dropped ceiling, and only to use them as structural support of the insulation above, not as acoustic treatment in and of themselves. Those "acoustic rated" ones linked above are expensive. If I did go the cheapo standard ceiling tile route, I think I'd just get some of the standard ceiling tile grid and attach it inside a 12" deep (or whatever depth) wooden frame. Then place the tiles in, with the insulation on top, and attach the whole thing to the ceiling. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 14, 2022 11:15:21 GMT -6
I think those are well thought out concerns but in real life we have to deal with the compromises I’d go with pink fluffy, like Roxul safe’n sound, above the tiles. The tiles may block some airflow, but they’re not massive enough to stop bass frequencies. In fact, it might actually help by keeping more midrange and high end in the room to balance the absorption across the spectrum….it’s really easy to suck all the high end out, ya know? I’d think of it similar to putting wooden slats in front of an absorption wall. In the end though it’s kind like, “try it and see how it sounds”. The biggest takeaway I have from building out a few different home studios is to do it in stages. Put up some absorption, listen/measure…and then continue as you go. There are always surprises so I’ve learned not to over commit in one particular direction I hear that you're saying, and don't necessarily disagree, but I'm still going to try to figure out some kind of way to do it that still involves breathable fabric, if I can. I was looking into using cattle panel or some other kind of relatively rigid panel of some kind that would hold the pink fluffy in place. Then stretch fabric over that. Were I to look into ceiling tiles though, I think I'd maybe be looking at standard tiles used for a typical dropped ceiling, and only to use them as structural support of the insulation above, not as acoustic treatment in and of themselves. Those "acoustic rated" ones linked above are expensive. If I did go the cheapo standard ceiling tile route, I think I'd just get some of the standard ceiling tile grid and attach it inside a 12" deep (or whatever depth) wooden frame. Then place the tiles in, with the insulation on top, and attach the whole thing to the ceiling. ive heard of people using Eye-hooks and picture frame wire to suspend insulation inside ceiling rafters, then cover with fabric, so maybe that’s an option? But if you go that route you kind of need rigid insulation, the pink fluffy stuff won’t hold very well |
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Post by Quint on Sept 14, 2022 11:43:32 GMT -6
I hear that you're saying, and don't necessarily disagree, but I'm still going to try to figure out some kind of way to do it that still involves breathable fabric, if I can. I was looking into using cattle panel or some other kind of relatively rigid panel of some kind that would hold the pink fluffy in place. Then stretch fabric over that. Were I to look into ceiling tiles though, I think I'd maybe be looking at standard tiles used for a typical dropped ceiling, and only to use them as structural support of the insulation above, not as acoustic treatment in and of themselves. Those "acoustic rated" ones linked above are expensive. If I did go the cheapo standard ceiling tile route, I think I'd just get some of the standard ceiling tile grid and attach it inside a 12" deep (or whatever depth) wooden frame. Then place the tiles in, with the insulation on top, and attach the whole thing to the ceiling. ive heard of people using Eye-hooks and picture frame wire to suspend insulation inside ceiling rafters, then cover with fabric, so maybe that’s an option? But if you go that route you kind of need rigid insulation, the pink fluffy stuff won’t hold very well Yeah, I've done that exact thing before with the eye hooks and wire between rafters, but that was for OC703, which is much more rigid. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,059 
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Post by ericn on Sept 18, 2022 16:01:56 GMT -6
Met a guy years ago who used expanded metal grates to hold up the fiber glass. He even painted it pink.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 18, 2022 16:24:06 GMT -6
I looked into the idea of ceiling tiles, but the issue I kept encountering, that kept me from trying it, was that, if I wanted the pink fluffy insulation above said tiles to do the bass trapping job it was intended to do, it seemed like the ceiling tiles would prevent air flow into the pink fluffy insulation. Without the air flow, the superior gas flow resistivity (GFR) of the pink fluffy insulation would be inhibited by the ceiling tiles below them blocking the ability of air to move into the pink fluffy. At least that's how it seemed to me. Traditional advice involved using a breathable fabric to cover pink fluffy. The problem is that, if used on a ceiling, you would get a lot of sag. The ceiling tiles would provide some nice rigidity, but reduce the overall gas GFR. Anybody got any further thoughts on this? I dunno... Maybe replace some or all the ceiling tiles with tile sized chunks of 1/2" open plastic grid that you could put the pink fluffy on?
These tiles are arount 2x4 feet, right?
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Post by Quint on Sept 18, 2022 17:33:49 GMT -6
Met a guy years ago who used expanded metal grates to hold up the fiber glass. He even painted it pink. Yeah, I was thinking about something along these lines. |
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Post by Quint on Sept 18, 2022 17:34:09 GMT -6
I looked into the idea of ceiling tiles, but the issue I kept encountering, that kept me from trying it, was that, if I wanted the pink fluffy insulation above said tiles to do the bass trapping job it was intended to do, it seemed like the ceiling tiles would prevent air flow into the pink fluffy insulation. Without the air flow, the superior gas flow resistivity (GFR) of the pink fluffy insulation would be inhibited by the ceiling tiles below them blocking the ability of air to move into the pink fluffy. At least that's how it seemed to me. Traditional advice involved using a breathable fabric to cover pink fluffy. The problem is that, if used on a ceiling, you would get a lot of sag. The ceiling tiles would provide some nice rigidity, but reduce the overall gas GFR. Anybody got any further thoughts on this? I dunno... Maybe replace some or all the ceiling tiles with tile sized chunks of 1/2" open plastic grid that you could put the pink fluffy on?
These tiles are arount 2x4 feet, right?
Yeah, I was thinking about something along these lines. |
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