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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 10:49:07 GMT -6
And wouldn't you know I can't find the damn spdif cable. I had two extras sitting here three days ago now they called in a hole somewhere. I'll report back as soon as I get it up and running.
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Post by deehope on Jun 4, 2014 13:11:36 GMT -6
Super beast? ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 13:18:47 GMT -6
No - 1794A DAC that I bought from scumbum...What's the difference in that and the Superbeast? Have you ever had something just absolutely disappear from your studio? I am absolutely floored that I can't find either of my extra SPDIF cables. |
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Post by scumbum on Jun 4, 2014 13:23:50 GMT -6
Cool you got it !
Just use any old RCA composite cable . Thats what I used . Maybe the experts can chine in if theres any disadvantages with that .
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 13:45:52 GMT -6
OK - here's what I'm hearing. Comparing the DA of the RM to the Apollo on internal clock.
The RM is definitely clearer on top. The Apollo has a slight distortion on top - maybe that's jitter - don't know if that's the right thing to call it though. It's an audible difference in clarity. I had been blaming this on my Lexicon power amp, thinking it wasn't driving the speakers with enough power or whatever...With the RM, the top end is crystal clear without any of that distortion. The bottom end is also tighter on the RM. Less flabby. Kicks are punchy - well everything is punchy...Also, the stereo field seems wider...It also seems that I'm hearing reverb trails and delays that I hadn't noticed - but of course, maybe that's just confirmation bias. The thing that - to me - is without question is the top end. DEFINITELY less "distortion" and more clear. All that being said, the Apollo held up nicely. We aren't talking dramatic differences, but they are audible and I would say that the RM is objectively the better between the two.
I also briefly compared the Apollo clocked with the Burl. The Burl does seem to tighten up the Apollo, but the distortion is still there.
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Post by scumbum on Jun 4, 2014 13:58:58 GMT -6
Awesome !
Yeah that Ross Martian guy is the man . Jim Williams recommended him , thats how I found him . If Jim says he makes good stuff it has to be good quality .
How do you like the price point ?
Imagine having all RM converters , A/D and D/A . Your talking a nice setup for CHEAP ! Now you know alot of the converter company's are just over priced .
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 14:48:02 GMT -6
Well, it DOES look like it's built out of coke cans...but holy SHIT.
I found the other SPDIF cable (right where I looked 40 times)...Just to tell you guys what I'm doing (so you can see if I'm doing it wrong)...I'm going spdif out of the Burl, into the in of the Apollo. Clocking the Apollo with the Burl. It took me a little while to figure out how the RM worked, but I figured out I have to switch it OUT of USB mode and it locked. I assumed this meant that it was locking to the clock signal coming out of the Apollo - which should be the Burl, right? So anyway...then I went in the Apollo preferences and mirrored the SPDIF to analog 1&2. So - Analog 1&2 from the Apollo is now going SPDIF to the RM and I could hear the results of the Burl clocking the RM. Am I right on that? I'm going out of the Ross Martin into my power amp the whole time)
It still had the top end distortion. (And when I'm talking about distortion, I'm trying to convey that it seems harsh - or like the tiny-est bit of - well - distortion. Is that jitter? Anyway, I then switched the USB mode back on and selected Ross Martin in SystemPrefs/Sounds - and confirmed that I was ONLY going through the RM. Immediately, the width was bigger, details seemed to emerge, Top end was CRYSTAL clear - no "distortion". Bottom is definitely tighter. And PUNCHY. Beautifully PUNCHY. Not flabby.
It reminds me of the Symphony DA - wish I still had it here for comparison. Although, I think the Symphony might have been a little brighter. Man, I'm blown away. I'm definitely ordering the AD.
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Post by svart on Jun 4, 2014 15:01:38 GMT -6
Are you just going SPDIF from the burl to the apollo or are you also using WC as the master clock to the apollo? Not that it matters because the apollo still has to retime/repackage the clock for SPDIF out to the RMDAC. Just wondering. It sounds like the apollo hardware is either jittery or something else is going on with that SPDIF data.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 15:06:03 GMT -6
just spdif...How would I set that up, SVART? Just WC cable out of the Burl to the IN of the Apollo? I would still need the SPDIF connected, though, right? Sorry for being a dumbass...Then select WC in the Apollo prefs?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 15:30:22 GMT -6
Hooked up via WC and you might be right, SVART...Seems like it sounds better that way...but damn - who knows...maybe I'm just convincing myself.
After more listening, it's not a night and day thing at all, but I do still think the RM sounds better. Def better than the Apollo by itself, but it seems like the difference is more subtle when clocked with the Burl. It still seems to be tighter in the bottom - the Apollo/Burl is still flabbier. Maybe it just has more bottom end altogether and that's what I'm hearing. The stereo field might not be wider per se, but it seems more detailed. I swear I can hear positioning better with the RM. Things that are panned around 65 or so seem to be, well, at 65 with the RM...not quite as defined on the Apollo/Burl. I'll report back as I have more time with it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 15:46:21 GMT -6
:)Finally... If you are blown away, you would have been shot into the orbit by listening to the SuperBeast. Think of it like the one that you got, plus additional space/stereo field precision and spectral balancing due to even tighter and clearer low end. Not to take it wrong, i would take the standard RM 1794A any day of the week for everything to listen and judge. In fact, i do... It is just - the SuperBeast has a slightly better stereo and bass/deepmid behaviour due to a dedicated converter chip on each channel and the top audio opamps of today after it. Top end and mids is simply great on both. And how you describe it was pretty much what i thought, first time listening to it....like "Wtf is THAT? This wasn't there before!" on detailed reverb trails etc...didn't expect anything that high-end at all... Well, if the effect is not going away...it is not your bias..  I still love mine like the first day... Congrats on your purchase and best regards, Martin |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 16:20:12 GMT -6
Well, hellfire! I'm putting an order in for the superbeast!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 16:27:20 GMT -6
So - the superbeast DAC is this one?
Single Channel Op Amps “SUPER BEAST” ADA4898-1 2nd order filter. DUAL UNIT Updated “GEARSLUTZ UNIT”
$387.95 Two Optical, Two RCA Spdif, AES and USB inputs. RCA + XLR + PHONES Stereo Outputs
LIMITED TIME SALE $343.95
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 16:32:28 GMT -6
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Post by wiz on Jun 4, 2014 17:19:25 GMT -6
my oh my, that website...
I ended up in the foetal position on the floor...
8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 4, 2014 17:32:25 GMT -6
So, are you not using your Burl as the DAC anymore? Did the Martin edge out the Burl?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 18:48:30 GMT -6
The Burl is an AD. I was using the Apollo DA clocked by the Burl .
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Post by warren on Jun 4, 2014 18:56:26 GMT -6
Hmm, love my Lavry's but I'm getting curious about these RM now haha
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 4, 2014 19:45:53 GMT -6
The Burl is an AD. I was using the Apollo DA clocked by the Burl . Ah, gotcha. |
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Post by svart on Jun 4, 2014 20:32:33 GMT -6
Hooked up via WC and you might be right, SVART...Seems like it sounds better that way...but damn - who knows...maybe I'm just convincing myself. After more listening, it's not a night and day thing at all, but I do still think the RM sounds better. Def better than the Apollo by itself, but it seems like the difference is more subtle when clocked with the Burl. It still seems to be tighter in the bottom - the Apollo/Burl is still flabbier. Maybe it just has more bottom end altogether and that's what I'm hearing. The stereo field might not be wider per se, but it seems more detailed. I swear I can hear positioning better with the RM. Things that are panned around 65 or so seem to be, well, at 65 with the RM...not quite as defined on the Apollo/Burl. I'll report back as I have more time with it. Yeah, it still sounds like the Apollo clock isn't that great. When you aren't using the apollo outputs, you are essentially using the RMDAC in stand alone mode, which is fine because local clocks are usually better than clocking through cables. It's also possible that the DAC circuitry in the RMDAC is simply just better than the Apollo. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 4, 2014 21:31:47 GMT -6
Hooked up via WC and you might be right, SVART...Seems like it sounds better that way...but damn - who knows...maybe I'm just convincing myself. After more listening, it's not a night and day thing at all, but I do still think the RM sounds better. Def better than the Apollo by itself, but it seems like the difference is more subtle when clocked with the Burl. It still seems to be tighter in the bottom - the Apollo/Burl is still flabbier. Maybe it just has more bottom end altogether and that's what I'm hearing. The stereo field might not be wider per se, but it seems more detailed. I swear I can hear positioning better with the RM. Things that are panned around 65 or so seem to be, well, at 65 with the RM...not quite as defined on the Apollo/Burl. I'll report back as I have more time with it. Yeah, it still sounds like the Apollo clock isn't that great. When you aren't using the apollo outputs, you are essentially using the RMDAC in stand alone mode, which is fine because local clocks are usually better than clocking through cables. It's also possible that the DAC circuitry in the RMDAC is simply just better than the Apollo. Yeah - standalone...Like I said, I think the Apollo holds up really well...but it's kind of the same as compared to the Symphony. I don't need the RM, but at this price why the hell not? |
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Post by lolo on Jun 5, 2014 2:49:34 GMT -6
So it there a difference in clocking via WC or spdif?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 2:49:36 GMT -6
Exactly. This might be the real deal for you, Johnkenn, the AD and the Superbeast together in a special discount offer. And - the SuperBeast also has all the bells and whistles, like a usb interface, so it works also optionally as an external sound card that works "class compliant" and needs no drivers except the standard ones from the OSes, and a headphone amp, that is quite good (last generation headphone chip amp). Just forgot to mention this.... Best regards, Martin |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 4:01:56 GMT -6
Well,
the way i hook up the RM DAC is simple, i use the electrical SPDIF out of my Lightbridge going to the cinch in of the DAC. No Wordclock.
AD is clock master for the soundcard interface.
If I build up a new system, i try to use wordclock from AD to soundcard/interface first, making it the clock master in the interface's driver. If this makes any problems, i try to get away with the clock over the signal line, be it ADAT or SPDIF, and make this the master in the driver. That said, ADAT clocking is weaker than SPDIF / AES/EBU, IMO. But if it works, it works.
Nowadays, i let the DACs run freely / async. Most modern DACs run reclocked internally by default. Or/and oversample by default. Which i think is good thing in terms of sound quality if they have a good internal clock. Which the RM DAC has.
I can only guess (i do not know it) that, when using WC on a DAC like the RM, the DAC may be forced to clock to external signal in synchronous mode - which might degrade sound quality, just like it does with ADs with external clocking...
I found mine to work perfectly with just the SPDIF IN used. Nothing else needed.
Best regards,
Martin
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Post by lolo on Jun 5, 2014 4:42:03 GMT -6
So martin. Sorry might be a stupid question.
My RM AD is going into my interface via spdif. Set as master clock. Do i need to connect WC as well
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