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Post by christopher on Aug 20, 2022 16:06:52 GMT -6
I have the solder type around here, but I see there is a crimper and insert/remove tool.
Anyone know which is better for the long term?
The studer has some soldered from 40 years ago. I’m debating whether to clean it up or not
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Post by svart on Aug 21, 2022 16:00:39 GMT -6
Honestly, I usually crimp AND solder.
I think either is fine if you have a quality crimper and pull on each pin as you crimp to make sure they're solidly attached.
Solder might still be faster though.
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Post by christopher on Aug 22, 2022 17:49:04 GMT -6
Thanks that makes a lot more sense, crimp AND solder.. I like it
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921 
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Post by ericn on Aug 25, 2022 8:40:48 GMT -6
Remember there are 2 types of crimp the standard, fairly cheap and the more expensive mill spec / aero space. If you go with the standard don’t buy the cheap insertion tools found on eBay ! They are crap and break far to easily.
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Post by cyrano on Aug 27, 2022 12:11:43 GMT -6
Connectors are made for either crimping OR soldering.
I used to work for telcos and anyone who soldered a crimp connector was liable to be immediately fired.
And, no, it's not some stupid rule. Check the connector manufacturer's specs. Soldering a crimp will degrade it. It might not happen immediately, but it will happen.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 27, 2022 12:30:07 GMT -6
Connectors are made for either crimping OR soldering. I used to work for telcos and anyone who soldered a crimp connector was liable to be immediately fired. And, no, it's not some stupid rule. Check the connector manufacturer's specs. Soldering a crimp will degrade it. It might not happen immediately, but it will happen. But connectors in Telcos seldom get the kind of workout that connectors do in many (most?) audio applications.
I hate DB connectors anyway, but these days sometimes you can't avoid them.
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Post by cyrano on Aug 31, 2022 10:57:00 GMT -6
You clearly don't know telcos...
In an average analog xchange, hundreds of connections are pulled every day. These lie in between thousands of lines and are around 15 meters long. Again, on average.
Imagine the power needed to pull one pair out of that bundle and the power transferred to a lot of the other connectors. And then that one pair is connected to a new position. Every connector is possibly used hundreds or even thousands of times before the xhange bed is replaced.
Admittedly, not a D-connector as that probably wouldn't survive such a treatment.
The D-connectors used in digital exchanges do not get replugged very often. There's no need as they carry a digital signal. Still, if it's a crimpable connector, it will never see solder. And D-connectors are already obsolete today. Everything is RJ45...
Telcos know about wiring. It's the core of their techniques. At least, it used to be before VOIP.
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Post by extempo on Oct 4, 2022 9:42:08 GMT -6
I have found that both crimping and soldering can make it difficult to insert the pins into the DSUB receptacle. I've also found that solder tends to creep up the stranded wire, stiffening the area around the crimp point and making it prone to breakage if there's a decent amount of tension on the wire at that point. I've been crimping only when making DSUBs the last few years with good results. YMMV.
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Post by recordingengineer on Oct 4, 2022 18:44:24 GMT -6
The last studio I built and run out of now, I did the entire SSL Duality and 16 Redco bays, soldering all the DSubs. It was fun!
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Post by svart on Oct 10, 2022 8:33:17 GMT -6
You clearly don't know telcos... In an average analog xchange, hundreds of connections are pulled every day. These lie in between thousands of lines and are around 15 meters long. Again, on average. Imagine the power needed to pull one pair out of that bundle and the power transferred to a lot of the other connectors. And then that one pair is connected to a new position. Every connector is possibly used hundreds or even thousands of times before the xhange bed is replaced. Admittedly, not a D-connector as that probably wouldn't survive such a treatment. The D-connectors used in digital exchanges do not get replugged very often. There's no need as they carry a digital signal. Still, if it's a crimpable connector, it will never see solder. And D-connectors are already obsolete today. Everything is RJ45... Telcos know about wiring. It's the core of their techniques. At least, it used to be before VOIP. Biggest difference between any large industry and DIY audio is the tool. In telco and other industries, there's specs for crimp pressure for specific brand/model of crimps and the tools are calibrated for this. This is absolutely crucial for longevity. Too much pressure and the crimp will be split/cracked and too little pressure and the conductor might make poor connections and/or slip out of the crimp. Professional crimp tools can run hundreds of dollars for the base tool and perhaps another couple hundred for a set of crimp dies for specific brand/model of connectors. Nobody in DIY audio is buying 400$ worth of tooling to wire a couple patch bays. They're buying the 10$ crimper from the hardware store and then going online to complain about how crimping sucks.. |
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 11, 2022 14:41:49 GMT -6
As far as the "corrosion due to dissimilar metals issue" is concerned, you get the same corrosion for similar reasons if you simply mate a gold plated connector with one that is a different metal.
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Post by svart on Oct 12, 2022 7:30:07 GMT -6
As far as the "corrosion due to dissimilar metals issue" is concerned, you get the same corrosion for similar reasons if you simply mate a gold plated connector with one that is a different metal. Gold and tin are a big problem in the industry. Had a recent issue where a board I designed was placed into another 2nd party design by a 3rd group within the company. They didn't adhere to using similar metal interconnects and there was a big problem with issues popping up in the devices after a few months of service. They, of course, questioned the other groups first and they all pointed fingers to my board and then I was put on the spot with "why does your board have this problem" and after a few days of detective work I fingered the interconnection as the problem. A galvanic potential was forming from a current loop and corroding the loose connectors ever so slightly. The solution was to change the adapter connection with one that had gold on one side and tin on the other and tighten the whole assembly to a specified torque. I wrote a nice report on how this was the problem, and it was caused by other engineers not knowing what they were doing. Funny, I didn't hear back from corporate about it. |
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Post by cyrano on Oct 18, 2022 16:40:10 GMT -6
Professional crimp tools can run hundreds of dollars for the base tool and perhaps another couple hundred for a set of crimp dies for specific brand/model of connectors. Nobody in DIY audio is buying 400$ worth of tooling to wire a couple patch bays. They're buying the 10$ crimper from the hardware store and then going online to complain about how crimping sucks.. Even the cheaper crimp tools work well if you know how to use 'em. If you don't know, no tool will work. Including soldering. Soldering crimp connectors will never last. I spent six months gathering data about this problem for our local telco and it was very clear there is no better solution than crimping but you need to train techs. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2022 15:02:01 GMT -6
Professional crimp tools can run hundreds of dollars for the base tool and perhaps another couple hundred for a set of crimp dies for specific brand/model of connectors. Nobody in DIY audio is buying 400$ worth of tooling to wire a couple patch bays. They're buying the 10$ crimper from the hardware store and then going online to complain about how crimping sucks.. Even the cheaper crimp tools work well if you know how to use 'em. If you don't know, no tool will work. Including soldering. Soldering crimp connectors will never last. I spent six months gathering data about this problem for our local telco and it was very clear there is no better solution than crimping but you need to train techs. A lot of the pro solder guys I know used some of those really crappy pins that state “ gold metal” not gold plated. One guy gave me a bunch I swear while they crimped fine it felt like every 5 pins bent when you tried to insert them. I think my favorite crimp tool is the ancient one I bought at a carat sale 25 years ago for $.50. |
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