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Post by ragan on Jun 11, 2014 20:48:34 GMT -6
Apart from the obvious (change singers), I have encountered a few male singers in my time who sing good, pitch is good, phrasing good ect but the tonal qaility leans toward a nasaly honk. I myself struggle with this because I was raised to talk like a hick and we flatten nearly every word. I'm too old to change my diction and wouldn't if I could, but what does the doctor order for this slight short coming in vocals. Obviously we can't always change the source so which mics lend themselves to this type of vocal? What eq methods work accordingly. I run into this often so I must assume that others do too. I don't know Cowboy, but if you figure it out, let me know so I can finally record my honky voice right.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2014 8:00:01 GMT -6
I've learned that as much as you can shape and EQ vocals in the mix, a person's vocal timbre isn't something that you can necessarily change. It's sometimes best to try to make all the other vox and instruments work WITH the nasally voice. Smashing Pumpkins does a great job of it. Not a fan of nasally voices (no offense Johnkenn!) but the Pumpkins make it work. Am I nasally? I feel like I'm harsh in the middle regions, but I don't know if I would consider it nasally. I think of nasally like Justin Moore or Hank Williams.
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Post by fishnmusician on Jun 19, 2014 15:39:11 GMT -6
Ribbon's can be good at smoothing ssss's, I wonder if a particular ribbon mic could smooth out nasal?
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Post by sinasoid on Jun 19, 2014 17:07:31 GMT -6
Ribbon's can be good at smoothing ssss's, I wonder if a particular ribbon mic could smooth out nasal? The Cloud 44-A and sE Electronics Gemini II helped focus out my nasally sounds pretty well, though my vox is more in the vein of Kurt Cobain type yells.
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Post by henge on Jun 19, 2014 17:21:52 GMT -6
Ribbon's can be good at smoothing ssss's, I wonder if a particular ribbon mic could smooth out nasal? Anyone use a ribbon for a nasaly voice?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 19, 2014 20:59:15 GMT -6
A great U67 is fabulous for nasalness.
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Post by Ward on Jun 19, 2014 21:08:23 GMT -6
Not a Ribbon, but if you (or the talent) choose to ignore varying mic techniques to sort the problem... you can always grab a Sennheiser 441 and let it sort it out for you. It is a nasal honky sound killer.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 19, 2014 21:13:35 GMT -6
Not a Ribbon, but if you (or the talent) choose to ignore varying mic techniques to sort the problem... you can always grab a Sennheiser 441 and let it sort it out for you. It is a nasal honky sound killer. I heard a sample of someone singing into a 421 the other day and I was really impressed with how it sounded..... I'd only ever used them on toms, but compared to some of the other mics it seemed like one to not honk either, smooth sounding, I could also hear the words more clearly than the other mics. It was on Pensados place I think, I was really impressed.
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Post by category5 on Jun 20, 2014 7:19:49 GMT -6
How does your voice translate on the R84? I would think that through your Heritage would be the ticket for smoothing out that midrange peak. I did some stuff for a young opera singer that had a beautiful voice, but for the life of me couldn't figure out how to handle the shrill midrange peak. When she'd hit certain notes it made your ears buzz so bad they tickled. The R84 was like magic. It translated the breath and subtleties of her vice as well as the condensers I was trying at the time (can't remember what we had there) but subtracted the buzz when she got shrill. We actually got the mic to try on that session and I bought one immediately.
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Post by Ward on Jun 20, 2014 7:23:54 GMT -6
Not a Ribbon, but if you (or the talent) choose to ignore varying mic techniques to sort the problem... you can always grab a Sennheiser 441 and let it sort it out for you. It is a nasal honky sound killer. I heard a sample of someone singing into a 421 the other day and I was really impressed with how it sounded..... I'd only ever used them on toms, but compared to some of the other mics it seemed like one to not honk either, smooth sounding, I could also hear the words more clearly than the other mics. It was on Pensados place I think, I was really impressed. Yes, a 421 can be effectively also... which is why it was a broadcast standard v.o. mic for so long... but I was referring to the 441, which is much more silky and refined sounding.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2014 9:28:45 GMT -6
When mixing, in these cases, I use to cut 1-2dB quite narrow Q, in the problem freq and then use a multiband comp with only one band active at the same freq, shaving 3-5dB on the most harsh spots. Works great. Have a saved preset in my C4 library for that purpose I'm finding that this is a big key - multiband compression. The problem I always had was this continual stripping of problem frequencies would rob the vocal when the problem wasn't happening. This really seems to be the best way to handle it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2014 9:33:58 GMT -6
Can the room have a "node" or something at this range? cowboycoalminer you've seen my room...I just wonder if there's something effecting it - or if it's just flat out me. I just built a song here at the house - it originally was in a lower female key for my cowriter - but we wanted a male version too...I wasn't gonna re-track everything, so I sang it, but I knew it was gonna be right in that painful belting range of mine. And it was. Maybe that's a key to it all too - just avoid singing in ranges where you sound like shit. But that's no fun.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 2, 2014 9:47:46 GMT -6
Can the room have a "node" or something at this range? cowboycoalminer you've seen my room...I just wonder if there's something effecting it - or if it's just flat out me. I just built a song here at the house - it originally was in a lower female key for my cowriter - but we wanted a male version too...I wasn't gonna re-track everything, so I sang it, but I knew it was gonna be right in that painful belting range of mine. And it was. Maybe that's a key to it all too - just avoid singing in ranges where you sound like shit. But that's no fun. hell to the yes! a room can/will have modes and nodes, those offending frequencies can be amplified/attenuated wildly over its original loudness depending. It's funny how we spend literally thou$ands on our gear, when the best mic/pre/compressor you will ever buy, is a great sounding room, it will make every piece you own sound 5 times better imv. i'm in the process of completely decking out the acoustics in my room, i did some before samples with my C12 in omni dead center room, some sweeps, loud electric guitar, vocals, drums and some acoustic guitar. I will be performing the same tasks through identical chains/setting when its finished, i will post the samples before/after as well as pics on a new thread, should be quite interesting?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2014 9:52:18 GMT -6
How does one approach that upper mid frequency - well, 800-3khz? BBC Diffuser? (Just so happens I know someone selling those )
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 2, 2014 10:50:16 GMT -6
How does one approach that upper mid frequency - well, 800-3khz? BBC Diffuser? (Just so happens I know someone selling those ) who? lol John, what are the dimensions of your room? whats on, and under the floor? how tall are the ceilings and what material? what are the wall materials? Where is your desk in the room? where do you track in the room primarily? Maybe use google sketchup to make a drawing, or use a piece of paper and take a picture and post it up. higher frequencies are directional, think of a flashlight beam in a room covered with mirrors, low freq's are omni directional, the only way to deal with those is with huge amounts of space, or trapping. here are some general guidelines to use.. rectangular is MUCH better than square, a perfect square room is a nightmare, move lol. in your rectangle, set your desk at the end of the long side, facing parallel to the short side of the rectangle, as far off the walls as possible(within 30%) in a smallish room absorb the front of the room(desk area short wall, out to just before your ears on the side walls or absorb first reflection points on side walls, think flashlight/mirrors from your monitors diffuse as much as possible behind you, only absorb as much as needed to give you good ambience, dead sucks imo diffuse the rear wall and of course bass trap your corners as much as possible, you CAN bass trap unnecessarily, but you cannot over bass trap low ceilings definitely need to be treated above your monitoring position, and at least above your tracking positions(again, first reflection points, flashlight/mirrors). carpet always sounds bad(sorry fella's, just does) Ultimately, the sound of your room takes on the characteristics of the materials it's built with, meaning, drywall and carpet sound uninteresting and bad, what sounds good is.. wood, stone, concrete(love concrete floors!), cotton, metal and such, convex surfaces are great, concave focus's to points(no good). i hope this helps a little
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Post by svart on Jul 2, 2014 11:25:18 GMT -6
How does one approach that upper mid frequency - well, 800-3khz? BBC Diffuser? (Just so happens I know someone selling those ) How big is the room? I've found that for vocals, the room, unless horribly reflective, doesn't do *that* much to the voice.. Maybe you just need a few movable gobos? As before, I've found a little wide cut around 3k and a notch somewhere between 1k and 2k work wonders on most voices, make and female. From what I've read of the "big boys" they tend to do this as well. I think the whole "perfect" mic thing is a bit overblown. I think one for overall tone is fine, then small adjustments via EQ are the icing on the cake.
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Post by unit7 on Jul 2, 2014 16:51:56 GMT -6
When mixing, in these cases, I use to cut 1-2dB quite narrow Q, in the problem freq and then use a multiband comp with only one band active at the same freq, shaving 3-5dB on the most harsh spots. Works great. Have a saved preset in my C4 library for that purpose I'm finding that this is a big key - multiband compression. The problem I always had was this continual stripping of problem frequencies would rob the vocal when the problem wasn't happening. This really seems to be the best way to handle it. +1 on that. This and double bass are my number one source for multiband comp. On double bass sometimes you need to control the boomyness, but you don't want the bass to sound thin on higher notes, so I a have another C4 preset prepared for that I'm mixing a jazz project now with a super talented female singer singing very old school jazz style, reminding of Billie Holiday and also Judy Garland. A LOT of nose! On the loud parts it's sometimes quite piercing. Still, this is her style so I don't want to take away too much. But she seems to be happy with the sound so I think I've got it balanced ok. To save me some headache while mixing I lent a mic for the recording session. We tried Flea 49, U67 and Lucas CS-1 and we both preferred the Lucas, probably because it's a little scooped. Her voice also needs a little extra top end. Perhaps a tad bit too modern sounding for this album but it works great.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2014 18:49:45 GMT -6
I have to say - when I see a list of mics like that - that don't work - it makes me feel better about the mic I have.
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Post by unit7 on Jul 2, 2014 22:05:45 GMT -6
I have to say - when I see a list of mics like that - that don't work - it makes me feel better about the mic I have. That Flea 49 is slowly becoming my favorite for female jazz vocals (jazz - as in 'often calls for less top end'). But contrary to what you said above about the U67 I feel that Neumann style mics (the Flea 49 too) actually tends to bring out the mids more than other mics. I often cut 1-2dB quite narrow around 2.2-2.5k.
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Post by aremos on Jul 3, 2014 10:32:17 GMT -6
First, avoid nasal mics like the U-87 ... . Amen!
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