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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jun 3, 2014 8:39:55 GMT -6
Apart from the obvious (change singers), I have encountered a few male singers in my time who sing good, pitch is good, phrasing good ect but the tonal qaility leans toward a nasaly honk.
I myself struggle with this because I was raised to talk like a hick and we flatten nearly every word. I'm too old to change my diction and wouldn't if I could, but what does the doctor order for this slight short coming in vocals. Obviously we can't always change the source so which mics lend themselves to this type of vocal?
What eq methods work accordingly. I run into this often so I must assume that others do too.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 3, 2014 10:15:15 GMT -6
First, avoid nasal mics like the U-87. Then shove a couple of ear plugs into the nostrils or use a clothes pin on the nose.
If that doesn't work, use a "Breath-rite" nasal strip on the noise, opening it up may lessen the honk.
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Post by svart on Jun 3, 2014 10:19:47 GMT -6
Use a narrow Q and sweep around in the 800-4K region. you'll find a frequency or ten that really stand out. Cut that fairly ruthlessly. That's usually what people do. Sometimes it helps if they stand closer or farther from the mic too as the sound waves will resonate the capsule with some voices.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2014 10:26:47 GMT -6
I struggle with this constantly. I am harsh as hell in the 900-1khz and then the 2.5-3kHz range. I'm always digging that area out - just like Svart said. I'll use a narrow Q and sweep until I find the offending frequency, then maybe notch it out...I've also used multiband compression with success. Honestly, Shannon's mod did the most for that problem - just gave a smoother midrange on the mic. As you know Cowboy, my mic could prob have a little more top taken out, but I just didn't want to mess with success.
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Post by svart on Jun 3, 2014 10:41:58 GMT -6
Works very well with female singers too since they have stuff in that range. I generally find myself cutting 1-2k somewhere and 2.5-4k somewhere on both males and females with my C12 clone mic.
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Post by wiz on Jun 3, 2014 14:56:24 GMT -6
Don't overlook something very obvious, mic angle and position(height).
Sometimes it can be a little counter intuitive.
having the mic above or below the mouth, pointing slightly up or down, or even singing across the front of the mic (great for taming plosives if you have a spitter) can have a large effect on tonality.
its the first thing I would try before immediately reaching for EQ.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by donr on Jun 3, 2014 17:28:24 GMT -6
Don't overlook something very obvious, mic angle and position(height). Sometimes it can be a little counter intuitive. having the mic above or below the mouth, pointing slightly up or down, or even singing across the front of the mic (great for taming plosives if you have a spitter) can have a large effect on tonality. its the first thing I would try before immediately reaching for EQ. cheers Wiz When we started recording (we started in real studios, because there were no home studios in those days, even pre-sign demos were done in real studios) engineers would place the vocal mic (usually a U87) just above the height of the mouth, so you weren't singing right into the capsule, which was pointing at your nose. We learned to aim plosives away from the mic. Pop filters came years later.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2014 19:02:57 GMT -6
I always tend to raise the mic above me and aim it angling down...don't know if that's "right"...just the way I've been doing it for the last couple of years. Think I read it on some forum somewhere.
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 3, 2014 20:32:32 GMT -6
Shoot the singer?
I keed. Maybe. Depending on the singer.
I dunno. The right mic. The guy I've recorded the most has a nasal thing going on and he was really sensitive to compression - 1176s didn't work at all and anything above moderate compression levels just seemed to bring out more of the honk. I thought it was just me and my inexperience at the time, but I went with him to a place that did this for a living and he still had a bit of honk going through their M49 and LA2. Still, gotta admit it sounded better than through my AT 4033 (or SM7) and whatever cheap comp I had at the time.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 3, 2014 20:41:56 GMT -6
I always tend to raise the mic above me and aim it angling down...don't know if that's "right"...just the way I've been doing it for the last couple of years. Think I read it on some forum somewhere. Well, I think if you want to avoid nasal, that makes sense. If the nasal stuff is actually coming from the nose. Which it may or may not be. But just from a physics standpoint the nostrils do exhale down. Stick your hand six inches out in front of your face (nose or eye level and move down) and breathe out through your nose. You don't feel it in front of your nose - not really until your hand is in front of your mouth. So, sticking a mic up around nose level and pointing it back at your mouth probably avoids a lot of the nasal - despite what the positioning looks like. I've also heard the theory that positioning it lower and looking up will get nasty stuff off the hard palate and you don't want that. Personally, my own voice is so abominable that I don't think it much matters. For you dudes that can sing though - whole nuther kettle of fish. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 3, 2014 20:55:29 GMT -6
Not sure mic positioning can fix my problem frequencies...it's just kind of is what it is. It's not always a problem with me, just when I'm really belting...which probably means I'm singing incorrectly (or shouldn't be singing those notes) or have bad mic technique...I've never recorded my own vocal where I spent more than 3 hours on one song...So - that's probably problem number one. All I've ever sung on was/is demos, so there wasn't really any reason to spend a week figuring shit out.
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Post by lolo on Jun 3, 2014 21:03:35 GMT -6
Funny. This is something i also encounter with my voice from time to time. Normally in the 700-1k region
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Post by littlesicily on Jun 3, 2014 21:17:41 GMT -6
On the spot, not easy to fix/change. But, I've seen a good vocal coach get the nasal sound out of singers permanently over a few lessons.
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Post by svart on Jun 3, 2014 22:04:10 GMT -6
I always make the singers sing a little upwards by placing the capsule about nose level. This makes them point their heads a little and open up the vocal box a bit more. Better tone this way.
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Post by unit7 on Jun 4, 2014 1:22:12 GMT -6
When mixing, in these cases, I use to cut 1-2dB quite narrow Q, in the problem freq and then use a multiband comp with only one band active at the same freq, shaving 3-5dB on the most harsh spots. Works great. Have a saved preset in my C4 library for that purpose
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 4, 2014 7:30:36 GMT -6
This is probably the most difficult thing that I deal with when mixing live at the club. Some singers just have a thin voice. When they sound thin or honky, I usually swap in a Heil PR35 instead of a 58 or a Sennheiser, which helps beef and smooth, but usually that's not enough. Any other live mic suggestions to add a bit of beef and smooth the honk?
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Post by Ward on Jun 4, 2014 11:30:51 GMT -6
I always make the singers sing a little upwards by placing the capsule about nose level. This makes them point their heads a little and open up the vocal box a bit more. Better tone this way. That works some times. This works other times. having a singer sing 'across' the top of the microphone, slightly angled back. Especially helpful with a U87
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Post by Randge on Jun 4, 2014 11:39:50 GMT -6
Just put a rapper and a really bad truck-n-bro-country lyric along with the most generic band around him and call it a day.
R
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Post by Randge on Jun 4, 2014 11:41:31 GMT -6
Just kidding, but I am really not that far off right now. Stick the mic more in his chest and use a little labs vog to help bring out some chest resonance at tracking time to save you some serious post work.
R
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jun 4, 2014 15:56:46 GMT -6
I always make the singers sing a little upwards by placing the capsule about nose level. This makes them point their heads a little and open up the vocal box a bit more. Better tone this way. That works some times. This works other times. having a singer sing 'across' the top of the microphone, slightly angled back. Especially helpful with a U87 This is my setup on my own voice, Ward. Sing over the top slightly but angle it down instead of up, like I'm trying to hit the top of the capsule at an angle. Works pretty good.
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Post by Ward on Jun 4, 2014 18:31:22 GMT -6
Try the other angle also! You can really 'tune' a microphone's frequency response with placement. It's the best EQ there is!
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Post by sinasoid on Jun 9, 2014 15:50:48 GMT -6
I've learned that as much as you can shape and EQ vocals in the mix, a person's vocal timbre isn't something that you can necessarily change. It's sometimes best to try to make all the other vox and instruments work WITH the nasally voice. Smashing Pumpkins does a great job of it. Not a fan of nasally voices (no offense Johnkenn!) but the Pumpkins make it work.
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Post by deehope on Jun 11, 2014 10:22:26 GMT -6
I don't know if I'm dyslexic or something but mix angles especially when flipped Olympus end own confuse the he'll out of me. Would this be the same as having the mic upside down and having the capsule at nose level and leaning it towards the mouth? I always make the singers sing a little upwards by placing the capsule about nose level. This makes them point their heads a little and open up the vocal box a bit more. Better tone this way. That works some times. This works other times. having a singer sing 'across' the top of the microphone, slightly angled back. Especially helpful with a U87 View Attachment
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Post by deehope on Jun 11, 2014 10:25:59 GMT -6
Just kidding, but I am really not that far off right now. Stick the mic more in his chest and use a little labs vog to help bring out some chest resonance at tracking time to save you some serious post work. R when u say in his chest are we talking the mic in standard position but at a level that the artists lips are in line with the very top of the capsule? This mic placement topic needs a thread of its own
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Post by Ward on Jun 11, 2014 11:38:48 GMT -6
Just kidding, but I am really not that far off right now. Stick the mic more in his chest and use a little labs vog to help bring out some chest resonance at tracking time to save you some serious post work. R when u say in his chest are we talking the mic in standard position but at a level that the artists lips are in line with the very top of the capsule? This mic placement topic needs a thread of its own Essentially, yes. But angled back AWAY, not towards.
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