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Post by copperx on Aug 1, 2022 2:40:05 GMT -6
Hi! It's been a dream of mine to own a 1073 or 312 preamp for more than a decade, but finances have not permitted it. I have a budget of $400 for a single channel, maybe $450 including taxes and shipping  . I can solder quite well. I wanted to ask you if by any chance you know a way of building something like this for cheaper? With these prices I'm torn between the CAPI 312 and the AML 1081, but I don't know if there's something cheaper. I know there's Five Fish Audio, and Don Designs, but those are more expensive. Am I overlooking something? Should I get a cheap clone like a GAP preamp instead? Any thoughts/opinions? SCA N72 $577 Kit with Single Shot chassis SCA A12 $498
Kit with Single Shot chassis AML 73 (no di) $463
The preamp kit is $283.68 (inc. shipping) A used Midas 500 L6 Chassis $179 AML 1081 $404The preamp kit is $225 (inc. shipping) A used Midas 500 L6 Chassis $179 CAPI 312 $417
Preamp $238 Used Midas 500 L6 Chassis $179 |
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Post by svart on Aug 1, 2022 7:33:33 GMT -6
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Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Aug 1, 2022 13:20:50 GMT -6
If you are confident with a soldering iron, DIY can be a good investment, but you also need to factor in your time.
I've assembled a bunch of the CAPI VP28s and really like those. They are fun builds, but you need to be pretty organized. I'd imagine the 312 would be a breeze.
I just received a pair of the AML ezP1A-500 kits, and while I have not assembled them yet, they arrived to me (east coast USA via England) in literally two days. I've never had anything like that ship and arrive so fast. They actually arrived early. They are also packed very well and everything appears to be pre-sorted and trimmed/bent/etc.
The CAPI kits are semi-sorted, but you will need to do a bit of prep work.
With the DIY kits, cheaper isn't usually better, as you'll be taking a chance with part quality, ease of assembly, customer support, etc. The companies you've listed are popular for a reason. Some other companies that get DIY love are Hairball, DIYRE and SoundSkulptor
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Post by copperx on Aug 1, 2022 13:32:48 GMT -6
Sometimes DIY is not the cheapest option. That's fantastic! Although I still need the rack for the 500 module. I've looked it up, and apparently is almost the same as GAP PRE73? That ALCTRON 73 pre with the eq is insane for $400! But if I don't care much for the EQ, I wounder wether the GAP Premier 73 is closer to the quintessensial Neve sound because it has Carnhill in and out transformers? That's $400 used, including shipping and tax. I don't mind taking a week carefully soldering a kit if it takes me closer to the BAE sound. I'll confess that I've spent far too many hours on Zen Pro Audio's clipalator comparing '73 clones, and although all sound great, there's something about the BAE that makes everything smoother; like I wouldn't want to make make any eq moves when mixing. I have the same gut feeling API 312, but it seems like vocals get a tad more aggressive. Either way, I've shortened my list to: * The Alctron with EQ $400* The GAP Premier w/no EQ (Carnhill Transformers) $400* A GAP Pre 73 Jr ($200) and then adding an output transformer from AML (should all be less than $300) * AML 1081 w/used 500 rack $404* The CAPI 312 with used 500 rack $417 (yes, API style, but if it sounds close to the 312, that's awesome) Do the kit ones have a sonic quality edge? On the Clipalator samples, I hear that the GAP Premier sounds awesome, but the BAE still has an edge "rounding" the overall tone. It's very subtle, but it's there. Would the AML 1081 get me closer to the BAE roundness than the GAP? Arggh! I wish there was a way to compare the kit ones before buying them. |
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Post by copperx on Aug 1, 2022 13:39:42 GMT -6
If you are confident with a soldering iron, DIY can be a good investment, but you also need to factor in your time. [..] With the DIY kits, cheaper isn't usually better, as you'll be taking a chance with part quality, ease of assembly, customer support, etc. The companies you've listed are popular for a reason. Some other companies that get DIY love are Hairball, DIYRE and SoundSkulptor Yes! I have no problem sinking it a bit of my time (I've spent hours "researching" them anyways!), and I can solder pretty well. The problem that I see with the DIY kits is that getting a cheap 500 kit isn't easy, and that adds on to the final cost, which negate any savings if you're building a single module. And then there's the suspect power supplies like the Midas one. It seems like a gamble if you're trynig to save money. |
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Post by svart on Aug 1, 2022 14:32:17 GMT -6
Sometimes DIY is not the cheapest option. That's fantastic! Although I still need the rack for the 500 module. I've looked it up, and apparently is almost the same as GAP PRE73? That ALCTRON 73 pre with the eq is insane for $400! But if I don't care much for the EQ, I wounder wether the GAP Premier 73 is closer to the quintessensial Neve sound because it has Carnhill in and out transformers? That's $400 used, including shipping and tax. I don't mind taking a week carefully soldering a kit if it takes me closer to the BAE sound. I'll confess that I've spent far too many hours on Zen Pro Audio's clipalator comparing '73 clones, and although all sound great, there's something about the BAE that makes everything smoother; like I wouldn't want to make make any eq moves when mixing. I have the same gut feeling API 312, but it seems like vocals get a tad more aggressive. Either way, I've shortened my list to: * The Alctron with EQ $400* The GAP Premier w/no EQ (Carnhill Transformers) $400* A GAP Pre 73 Jr ($200) and then adding an output transformer from AML (should all be less than $300) * AML 1081 w/used 500 rack $404* The CAPI 312 with used 500 rack $417 (yes, API style, but if it sounds close to the 312, that's awesome) Do the kit ones have a sonic quality edge? On the Clipalator samples, I hear that the GAP Premier sounds awesome, but the BAE still has an edge "rounding" the overall tone. It's very subtle, but it's there. Would the AML 1081 get me closer to the BAE roundness than the GAP? Arggh! I wish there was a way to compare the kit ones before buying them. I have some real 1290 preamps, some AML clones and the Alctrons. They all sound like "neve" but with slightly different tonality. I'd say that any clone or original will never sound the same to each other. Even back in the day no two neve preamps sounded perfectly identical.. but then again nobody really listened that closely either. GAP is probably from the same company that does Alctron. I'd bet they're pretty similar. There's also this one: reverb.com/item/29201697-alctron-mp73x2-2-channel-dual-1073-microphone-preamp |
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Post by copperx on Aug 1, 2022 14:49:39 GMT -6
I have some real 1290 preamps, some AML clones and the Alctrons. While the GAP (and I assume the Alcron) sounds great, it doesn't have that "compressed high end" that I've heard on BAE and N72 samples. Would you say the AML has that quasi-compressed sound? |
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Post by svart on Aug 1, 2022 16:08:40 GMT -6
I have some real 1290 preamps, some AML clones and the Alctrons. While the GAP (and I assume the Alcron) sounds great, it doesn't have that "compressed high end" that I've heard on BAE and N72 samples. Would you say the AML has that quasi-compressed sound? I don't really drive mine very hard. I just like the fat bottom and sparkly top that neve style preamps give. Can't say I've noticed a compressed attitude from any of them. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 9, 2022 15:49:49 GMT -6
I have some real 1290 preamps, some AML clones and the Alctrons. While the GAP (and I assume the Alcron) sounds great, it doesn't have that "compressed high end" that I've heard on BAE and N72 samples. Would you say the AML has that quasi-compressed sound? I've noticed in a lot of online "Neve-type preamp" shootouts over the years that the BAE pres seem just a tad darker/smoother/quasi-compressed on the top. More so than current AMS Neve. Some people love that, some people don't. You mentioned the 1081 above, too - that's of course quite a bit different than a 1073/66 Neve sound. |
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Post by tahoebrian5 on Aug 10, 2022 8:25:04 GMT -6
I’ve got a golden age 73 mk2 I can sell you, $250 shipped, then if you want you can upgrade the transformers.
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Post by copperx on Aug 10, 2022 10:19:41 GMT -6
I’ve got a golden age 73 mk2 I can sell you, $250 shipped, then if you want you can upgrade the transformers. Thanks! But I already got a GAP 73 Premier  Now I'm debating whether it's worth it to upgrade the 2N3055 transistor to a Motorola NOS one. There's debate as to how much it influences the sound, and some people say that it is more important than the transformers themselves (?) |
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Post by svart on Aug 10, 2022 14:20:44 GMT -6
I’ve got a golden age 73 mk2 I can sell you, $250 shipped, then if you want you can upgrade the transformers. Thanks! But I already got a GAP 73 Premier Now I'm debating whether it's worth it to upgrade the 2N3055 transistor to a Motorola NOS one. There's debate as to how much it influences the sound, and some people say that it is more important than the transformers themselves (?) I've never heard that before. I would think a proper biasing of the 3055 would matter more to the tone than the part used. I certainly wouldn't expect the transistor to matter more than the transformers! But, I think the design itself as a whole is where the tone lies and there isn't a single part that dictates the majority of the vintage neve sound. |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Aug 12, 2022 5:05:51 GMT -6
Thanks! But I already got a GAP 73 Premier Now I'm debating whether it's worth it to upgrade the 2N3055 transistor to a Motorola NOS one. There's debate as to how much it influences the sound, and some people say that it is more important than the transformers themselves (?) I've never heard that before. I would think a proper biasing of the 3055 would matter more to the tone than the part used. I certainly wouldn't expect the transistor to matter more than the transformers! But, I think the design itself as a whole is where the tone lies and there isn't a single part that dictates the majority of the vintage neve sound. The new ones are fairly different with faster fT. ON are probably the best of the current selection. ST has a smaller die size......which may not matter in this situation as they are not really being driven hard. I can't remember which brand i used on my ez1290s but I do have some old motorollas somewhere. |
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Post by copperx on Aug 13, 2022 23:26:43 GMT -6
The new ones are fairly different with faster fT. ON are probably the best of the current selection. ST has a smaller die size......which may not matter in this situation as they are not really being driven hard. I can't remember which brand i used on my ez1290s but I do have some old motorollas somewhere. Would this one be better than ST or ON? www.zenproaudio.com/motorola-2n3055-nos-output-transistor |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Aug 14, 2022 4:15:36 GMT -6
The new ones are fairly different with faster fT. ON are probably the best of the current selection. ST has a smaller die size......which may not matter in this situation as they are not really being driven hard. I can't remember which brand i used on my ez1290s but I do have some old motorollas somewhere. Would this one be better than ST or ON? www.zenproaudio.com/motorola-2n3055-nos-output-transistorI'm not sure it will make much difference. As i said i do have some NOS ones somewhere but used some from RS in my builds. I haven't felt the need to try out the NOS ones. I would buy a GAP and do some mods if you feel the need. |
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Post by svart on Aug 14, 2022 11:24:32 GMT -6
I've never heard that before. I would think a proper biasing of the 3055 would matter more to the tone than the part used. I certainly wouldn't expect the transistor to matter more than the transformers! But, I think the design itself as a whole is where the tone lies and there isn't a single part that dictates the majority of the vintage neve sound. The new ones are fairly different with faster fT. ON are probably the best of the current selection. ST has a smaller die size......which may not matter in this situation as they are not really being driven hard. I can't remember which brand i used on my ez1290s but I do have some old motorollas somewhere. I don't know the ba283 circuit very well but usually ft won't matter much if the transistors have any kind of closed feedback. Also, the lowest bandwidth section of the circuit will define the maximum slew. That said, the classic circuit likely used parts with a wide range of tolerance, so selection for bandwidth isn't really necessary. Besides, you won't get max gbw into the transformers anyway. |
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. I can solder quite well.
