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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2022 14:49:41 GMT -6
Shadow, as to my saying that sometimes there can be a big quality leap at a price point, I was mainly referring to computer technology. Huge leaps in power, memory, applications etc. do happen occasionally. After all, much of the gear we use involves computational ability, so it seems to me that at some point, a company will make a piece of gear that rivals a Burl or other high end converters at a much lower price point. To me it's a matter of when, not if. Then maybe I'm wrong and it's just wishful thinking since I can't afford the gear I'd like to have for my work yet. How long? How long do you wait until that happens? Martin, I've recently done a massive upgrade and everything is proper top shelf HW. All in, more than a Neve Genesys Black.. You know what? I could have stopped at the Shelfords / Stam 2A's and a 1176 clone of some description then left it there. There's too much onus on this stuff, something that becomes explicitly apparent when someone comes along with a crappy desk like an Onyx plus a few pieces of outboard / plugs and completely wipes the floor with many "professional mixes", even those of yesteryear. Sure it's as subjective as it comes but I do appreciate high fidelity, wide and impressive music. You don't need a Burl to win a Grammy, some were doing mixes on old digital desks which many would snuff their noses up at. I upgraded because I've been drooling over this stuff for a decade but I was never under any illusion that I needed it to make things sound good. Sure, quite a few pieces have interesting sonic signatures and others appeal to the sound in my head, there's a lot of cool stuff out there but it's prudent sometimes to reign it in and realise what's actually important. Just some friendly advice from someone who gets way too obsessive about this stuff.. I promise I'm not trying to preach here, it's just a subject close to my heart. I'm not sure about you but sometimes I need a reality check.. P.S If you don't like the Apollo get rid, there's plenty of cheaper options out there. |
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Post by notneeson on Jun 2, 2022 14:50:08 GMT -6
The Bomber is killer. And also, it’s like 10 years old, right!? On the other hand, Burl has a rich history of converter design since the guy used to design for, um… UA. Oh wait, Apollos suck so how can the Burl be good? 😅 Well, the Burl does sound great, perhaps not everyone's preference, but great sounding nevertheless. The Apollo is a different animal. The Apollo's could sound better. For all their hype about specs, the conversion is lacking something, it's a bit narrow and honky in places. I've used an Apollo since the first week they were released and have found it to be an incredibly reliable and well built tool. That doesn't mean I shouldn't like to see the platform go a little further into higher end sound quality, especially in the conversion aspects. Shadow, as to my saying that sometimes there can be a big quality leap at a price point, I was mainly referring to computer technology. Huge leaps in power, memory, applications etc. do happen occasionally. After all, much of the gear we use involves computational ability, so it seems to me that at some point, a company will make a piece of gear that rivals a Burl or other high end converters at a much lower price point. To me it's a matter of when, not if. Then maybe I'm wrong and it's just wishful thinking since I can't afford the gear I'd like to have for my work yet. Hey Martin, as is probably obvious, I am mostly just joking around. While my personal view on converter shootouts is that the emperor is very scantily clad, I am not here to be the guy who tells other people they're not hearing whatever they're hearing. Tools for making music should be inspiring. While I don't need much from a convertor in that dept, I get that others feel differently. And I have used and enjoyed the Burls a good bit, they're cool. I have found that using Neve style line amps in front of Avid converters also sounds really vibey and cool on mix capture, albeit different. I have never owned an Apollo, but in using them at my friend's spot they seem ok to me. (He has the newer version, FWIW). But, the thing that I honestly wonder about is, what would contribute to midrange honk in an age when it's pretty much table stakes to make a flat (frequency wise) sounding A>D? I would think there must be measurements out there that show what you all are hearing. Edit: FWIW, and you guys probably already know this (I have only recently become curious) but Apollo x16 actually tests quite well: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/universal-audio-apollo-x16-review.17649/ |
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Post by Quint on Jun 2, 2022 15:30:58 GMT -6
Well, the Burl does sound great, perhaps not everyone's preference, but great sounding nevertheless. The Apollo is a different animal. The Apollo's could sound better. For all their hype about specs, the conversion is lacking something, it's a bit narrow and honky in places. I've used an Apollo since the first week they were released and have found it to be an incredibly reliable and well built tool. That doesn't mean I shouldn't like to see the platform go a little further into higher end sound quality, especially in the conversion aspects. Shadow, as to my saying that sometimes there can be a big quality leap at a price point, I was mainly referring to computer technology. Huge leaps in power, memory, applications etc. do happen occasionally. After all, much of the gear we use involves computational ability, so it seems to me that at some point, a company will make a piece of gear that rivals a Burl or other high end converters at a much lower price point. To me it's a matter of when, not if. Then maybe I'm wrong and it's just wishful thinking since I can't afford the gear I'd like to have for my work yet. Hey Martin, as is probably obvious, I am mostly just joking around. While my personal view on converter shootouts is that the emperor is very scantily clad, I am not here to be the guy who tells other people they're not hearing whatever they're hearing. Tools for making music should be inspiring. While I don't need much from a convertor in that dept, I get that others feel differently. And I have used and enjoyed the Burls a good bit, they're cool. I have found that using Neve style line amps in front of Avid converters also sounds really vibey and cool on mix capture, albeit different. I have never owned an Apollo, but in using them at my friend's spot they seem ok to me. (He has the newer version, FWIW). But, the thing that I honestly wonder about is, what would contribute to midrange honk in an age when it's pretty much table stakes to make a flat (frequency wise) sounding A>D? I would think there must be measurements out there that show what you all are hearing. Edit: FWIW, and you guys probably already know this (I have only recently become curious) but Apollo x16 actually tests quite well: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/universal-audio-apollo-x16-review.17649/I'm not sure either what this "honk" is that I hear talked about in relation to the Apollo? Granted, maybe it's because I own the x16 and not an older model. I don't know. All of the Apollos get thrown into one big discussion and nobody knows which generation we're talking about half the time. We're on the third generation now and probably on the cusp of a fourth in not too long, and the sound has improved over time between the original Apollo and the newest X series. In any case, I think this is also the sort of thing where it takes on a life of its own because it gets repeated enough that it becomes audio forum lore. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 2, 2022 15:33:04 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Shadow, in a way, my career proves your point. With just an Apollo and a good preamp I've done my second solo album, mixed and co-produced two albums for Americana artist Dusty Wright, wrote and produced music for two award winning documentaries, played and produced a Kirtan/Mantra CD called the Naam Music Project, engineered numerous meditation podcasts and song demos for singer/songwriters.
My secret is use very good microphones.
The problem is my experienced ears. I have a goal in mind, kind of a high end minimalist home studio concept. It's been an exercise in frustration to try to compete with the gear and mic collections of major studios, or engineers who've been putting their studio together since 1985 a little at a time.
But with good ears and well chosen gear, I believe I can eventually be satisfied with the sound quality I get at home. I think it could be done for less than $25,000, but right now, it's all about the rent.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2022 16:02:30 GMT -6
The problem is my experienced ears. I have a goal in mind, kind of a high end minimalist home studio concept. It's been an exercise in frustration to try to compete with the gear and mic collections of major studios, or engineers who've been putting their studio together since 1985 a little at a time. But with good ears and well chosen gear, I believe I can eventually be satisfied with the sound quality I get at home. I think it could be done for less than $25,000, but right now, it's all about the rent. Great stuff, is it out yet? Lemme listen  . Understood as well, I guess it's like the monitor test I recently did. I've heard tons of great songs mixed on LYD 48's, I was happy with them for years but now I've come across some thing subjectively better I can't un-hear it. That SSL 4k I had decades back took some getting over as well.. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 2, 2022 19:57:59 GMT -6
Hey Shadow, this is a track from my album "What the Heart Only Knows". Our own Jesse Coutou mastered this one. https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/long-road-back-masterThis is the recent documentary I did 4 music bed tracks on. The best part is I'm actually credited on the billboard poster, first time for that one! Attachments:
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Post by grizshack on Jun 9, 2023 15:23:31 GMT -6
I think it sounds pretty good. I light piped it into my carbon unit, and toggled around with some guitar chords bae and Stam 1073-5t pres, and it hung right in there, pres and converters. I haven’t stacked any tracks yet, but I think it’s fine. The Stam sounded a little warmer with the tube, but all more or less extremely similar and will find there places in larger sessions. As a previous owner user, It does not compare to real vintage Neves with a Burl Mothership of course, but at this price point, I am pleased and feel I can still make quality recordings. As always, it’s all about the song! Well, maybe 87% of it ;-)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 9, 2023 15:41:37 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum grizshack!
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Post by paulcheeba on Jun 9, 2023 18:20:26 GMT -6
I would get the much better sounding Phoenix Audio.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jun 9, 2023 18:32:44 GMT -6
I would get the much better sounding Phoenix Audio. Yeah, not to bag on Heritage but the two units I've had of theirs I've sold. Just didn't quite do the promised thing for us but probably work stunningly for others. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Jun 10, 2023 0:24:45 GMT -6
When I was scouting for 1073s I was looking into the heritage and wasn’t super impressed with the elite series, but this octo as a concept is kind of right down my alley with the adat connectivity. I use the uad 4-710d for my drums and run 4 pres thru that too and just really like the uad quad. But this 8 pres would alone cover my drum needs. This would also serve as a perfect mobile unit.
Regarding the spinoff of apollo converters. I do the conversion mainly in the 710 quad and have been really pleased with the conversion. Using apollo also as interface and assume the converters are the same and have never found either sound wise lacking anything.
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 10, 2023 0:52:18 GMT -6
I'm wondering what I'd want 8 channels of "clone" Neve pre's for?
I mean back in the day when it was on the desk and all you had was the desk pre's then yeah, sure press record
and go boys go.
But today 8 pre's means drums for me and for drums I'd want a little collection of different pre's - each focused
on the mic connected to it and the source it's pointing at on the kit.
Who wants an artists pallet with 8 blobs of the same colour on it - not me personally.
But, I know we all have different artistic goals and approaches.
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Post by niklas1073 on Jun 10, 2023 1:07:44 GMT -6
I'm wondering what I'd want 8 channels of "clone" Neve pre's for? I mean back in the day when it was on the desk and all you had was the desk pre's then yeah, sure press record and go boys go. But today 8 pre's means drums for me and for drums I'd want a little collection of different pre's - each focused on the mic connected to it and the source it's pointing at on the kit. Who wants an artists pallet with 8 blobs of the same colour on it - not me personally. But, I know we all have different artistic goals and approaches. I can see your approach and I think it reflects probably the majority in todays production chains. Diversify your palette since it’s possible. But then you can look at it from another perspective too. I actually enjoy having well thought thru chain from mics to mixbus which are rather consistent between tracks. I believe it’s easier to keep the production together that way. A friend just asked a while ago what i use to glue the mix together with, I realized I have never thought about that too much, or made a big deal of it because I believe most of it happens during the recording due to the homogeny sound palette. Sure it’s my studio is kind of a one trick pony, drums thru 710 and the rest thru 1073 and only 1176 and La2a compressors while tracking, so I can see the problem for many in the narrowness. But I sure believe there is a market for quads and octos of a specific pre. You are sure right about the mic approach, It means you have to pair that part also with the rest of the chain. |
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Post by grizshack on Jun 10, 2023 10:21:34 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum grizshack! Attachments:
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Post by sirthought on Jun 10, 2023 11:33:03 GMT -6
I think it's a brilliant piece of kit.
If I could track drums with eight of the same preamp, I would. Doesn't matter completely what flavor, because I'm an engineer and I can work with what I have to make it sound the best I possibly can at that session. The Heritage might not be your favorite, but it's no slouch. But I'd say the same about most 8 pre boxes with conversion built in. These would be cool.
And the conversion will do the job just fine, thanks. It's convenient and in the big picture, affordable.
The Grace m108 with conversion would be great too. Neve 1073 OPX. Focusrite ISA828. All great tools for getting there more affordably with professional options.
The Phoenix DRS-8 is awesome but I'd still need to buy more converters.
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