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Post by drumsound on Apr 27, 2022 23:31:00 GMT -6
I went from paralyzed to releasing an ep TOMORROW in a just a few months as soon I hired out all the mixing. I am so much happier. The record's out tomorrow? That's great!
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 28, 2022 1:40:15 GMT -6
Shadowk The Neve 8424 is the answer to your problems - perfect in fact - designed with you and your set up in mind! Only issue is the cost. I’m in a similar boat to you and I cannot find an even remotely appealing solution other than the 8424 which would be utterly perfect. Therefore at this point I’m ITB save for hardware on my stereo bus.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 2:10:45 GMT -6
Shadowk The Neve 8424 is the answer to your problems - perfect in fact - designed with you and your set up in mind! Only issue is the cost. I’m in a similar boat to you and I cannot find an even remotely appealing solution other than the 8424 which would be utterly perfect. Therefore at this point I’m ITB save for hardware on my stereo bus. Yeah, I'm 50/50 on it.. The stereo inserts for master? Check, two external verb / delay sends, cool. Balanced inserts so I don't need a bunch of patch bays, sweet.. Vpots, nice. The problem I've got with it is by default it only comes with two pre's, so I'd need the OPX. After you add motorised faders plus stand, plus OPX, plus extra converters you're talking Genesys money.. So why not just save up for a G16 / 32 fader model? With that I can consolidate instead of expand, 8 channel strips is good enough and the less important stuff can be shoved onto DAW channels. I could probably consolidate quite a bit of HW and the need for cables would be slim due to AES built in. I'd sort of demand Neve to give me a loaner at that price to make sure I was 100% happy.. Anyway if I was going to do it I'd get a Genesys Black and be happy for all the days to come. Frigging expensive though, that being said I've spent more on cars. One of the primary reasons I bought the SSL was to save up for the Neve, I'd take a cheaper solution though if I could find one ..
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Post by wiz on Apr 28, 2022 2:16:08 GMT -6
Shadowk The Neve 8424 is the answer to your problems - perfect in fact - designed with you and your set up in mind! Only issue is the cost. I’m in a similar boat to you and I cannot find an even remotely appealing solution other than the 8424 which would be utterly perfect. Therefore at this point I’m ITB save for hardware on my stereo bus. Yeah, I'm 50/50 on it.. The stereo inserts for master? Check, two external verb / delay sends, cool. Balanced inserts so I don't need a bunch of patch bays, sweet.. Vpots, nice. The problem I've got with it is by default it only comes with two pre's, so I'd need the OPX. After you add motorised faders plus stand, plus OPX, plus extra converters you're talking Genesys money.. So why not just save up for a G16 / 32 fader model? With that I can consolidate instead of expand, 8 channels is good enough and the less important stuff can be shoved onto DAW channels. I could probably consolidate quite a bit of HW and the need for cables would be slim due to AES built in. I'd sort of demand Neve to give me a loaner at that price to make sure I was 100% happy.. So if I was going to do it I'd get a Genesys Black and be happy for all the days to come. Frigging expensive though, that being said I've spent more on cars. One of the primary reasons I bought the SSL was to save up for the Neve, I'd take a cheaper solution though if I could find one .. Is there a second hand console out there that you can spend some money on bring it up to reliable status at a fraction of the cost you are looking at for those two?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 2:48:51 GMT -6
Is there a second hand console out there that you can spend some money on bring it up to reliable status at a fraction of the cost you are looking at for those two? There's a Calrec C2 on Reverb that I've had my eye on, EDAC's aren't too difficult to deal with in a patch config. reverb.com/uk/item/6949657-calrec-c2-48-stereo-channelsGood quality desks for sure but they don't really add much to the equation like a Neve, they drain power, get rather hot, there's no automation and I know (roughly) how to service them but it's a project. A console like that is overkill although you get quite a bit for your money.. Not far off an API the Box 2 though. In the cheaper mixer realm I'm quite interested in the Looptrotter console but there's just no info on them and some are asking if they're even still in business. I've got quite a bit of 500 series stuff so that would help in terms of consolidation but they're not cheap cheap and I see them as a risk.. Apart from that I've not really seen anything, I'm not in the US and consoles seem rare over here. Again over the next week I'm going to test out mixing with Logic and HW inserts, hopefully that pans out or it'll be ITB / tracking with HW and mixing with plugs then I'll save up for something awesome.
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Post by ericn on Apr 28, 2022 8:47:29 GMT -6
These kind of issues have always been at the back of my mind since SSL went budget ( for SSL). So I guess now Danny the question is do you look for a traditional console or do you go in the box? I think a DRBill like setup would probably be the easiest long term, but for some of us getting rid of the console is hard, you approach the console as your primary routing matrix, I know you could do it ITB, but I’m not sure you would like it.
I still think you need to sit down and have a conversation with Don Larking and see what he might have in a console, or man hate to say it but a small 4K.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 9:01:46 GMT -6
I think a DRBill like setup would probably be the easiest long term, but for some of us getting rid of the console is hard, you approach the console as your primary routing matrix, I know you could do it ITB, but I’m not sure you would like it. I still think you need to sit down and have a conversation with Don Larking and see what he might have in a console, or man hate to say it but a small 4K. 4k's are demanding crazy prices presently, for that I could pick up any new console on the market. Calrec have gone strictly commercial meaning it's all IP / broadcast digital stuff so nothing to be seen there. Audient is an option and on paper looks great but I've heard very mixed things?! I think the thehightenor is on the money, the 8424 seems perfect for a DAW integration console or if I want consolidation it'll be a Neve Genesys Black. For now I'll try HW inserts via a DAW, if that doesn't work just to get moving I'll just track through the Shelford's and bypass all the HW. Shame to do it like but it's more important to get moving than worry about HW.. I can almost hear the sound of Neve rubbing their hands together.
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Post by christopher on Apr 28, 2022 9:33:50 GMT -6
The big boards look like total overkill and completely useless for hybrid, but are kind of a blessing, as long as it keeps turning on and the price makes sense. Basically you can divide the numbers of channels by 8 or 12, then imagine it as a small sidecar and use it same as a subgroup mixer= way less stuff to recall and still feels very nice to push faders and EQ. Depending on how big the mixer you can setup a few different 8 or 12 channel mixes. Say one 12 channel mix is ready for the quiet clean stuff, another 12 channels for the rocking loud stuff. Recall is then very fast, you just route to the different channels. If you have 3x8 mixes spread out, then you have 3 presets to easily check for each instrument, find one and go the rest of the way ITB. Leftover channels you can use to mess around with processing FX returns, or routing parallel processing for CLA style, mixing a bunch of stereo/ parallel and FX. And when a channel acts up, which is inevitable, find a free channel and keep working
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Post by jmoose on Apr 28, 2022 13:28:59 GMT -6
I've already spent years in the ITB mixing domain and personally, for me it doesn't cut the mustard (because I'm after a specific sound). Whilst I'm sure there's plenty of reasons I'm doing this for my own self satisfaction so it's somewhat irrelevant. I can't escape ITB entirely but all of my investments bar the mixer thus far have been totally worth it, at this point I have the same equipment as named high end OTB mixers so why not use it? gwlee7 might be happy to hand everything off but I consider mixing (whatever definition that holds) to be part of the overarching sonic soundscape, unless there's a specific reason to hand it off like I've hit a "wall" I want control over the process and when the moons align meaning things go my way it can be fiscally counterintuitive. Well if you have all this amazing equipment why are you not using it already? Somewhat rhetorical since you already told us... you only have a couple hours a week to record and spend most of it trying to get things to work. Or something like that anyway. Can use whatever words you want to describe it but that's wall. Its not so much about mixing. Could be any part of the process that's creating an obstacle. The goal would be to fix that, whatever it is and get on with things... The whole music & creative process is supposed to be fun. So if your not having fun, and getting nothing accomplished..? Especially in a personal studio?? Dunno. Overall we're in very different places and also wired completely differently. Can't say I much understand the mentality of only wanting new & warranty gear. Most real console guys don't care since the vast majority of desks out there are decades old. Also for the most part if there's music to be made I'll use whatever tools are available. Have made records in million dollar rooms and improvised "studios" in cabins where everyone pools resources to work towards the end goal... walking away with a kick ass record. I don't really have an option there. Its work for hire, people have deadlines and need results not excuses. Yet... the real question is always burning away in the background... Do we control the equipment or does it control us? I'm fond of Roger Waters answer to that... which was you have to have it in your head to get it out of your head. Hopefully you can find some kinda resolution and get on with things. Peace.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 13:49:22 GMT -6
Well if you have all this amazing equipment why are you not using it already? Somewhat rhetorical since you already told us... you only have a couple hours a week to record and spend most of it trying to get things to work. Or something like that anyway. I'm sure I made it clear? The central hub for all that HW stopped working correctly and I've taken it out of circulation to be repaired (which could take up to two months). I don't care about "real" console people, I like to know that parts are still available and if a desk has automation which generally comes with newer desks I'll take it. Also who said I'm not having fun? I stated what the barrier was (emphasis on was) and it ain't mixing. Also I already noted several solutions to work around these problems. Sorry Jmoose but we're getting a bit off context here and it's not the end of the world.. I'm under no illusion that a desk is necessary and I can create decent tracks with my Shelford / MOTU plus some plugs. Done it, been there and now I'm looking to integrate HW because that's what I want. Is that okay with you?
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Post by drbill on Apr 28, 2022 17:22:16 GMT -6
I think once anyone gets to mix on a fully integrated hybrid system like the one I am rocking, with enough i/o and enough outboard, it's pretty hard to go back to either ITB or OTB on a console. If you can set it up, you should definitely check it out. I'm not sure how successful Logic will be with that type of workflow, but it might be good. For sure you should at least give it a go.
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Post by ericn on Apr 28, 2022 17:37:19 GMT -6
I think once anyone gets to mix on a fully integrated hybrid system like the one I am rocking, with enough i/o and enough outboard, it's pretty hard to go back to either ITB or OTB on a console. If you can set it up, you should definitely check it out. I'm not sure how successful Logic will be with that type of workflow, but it might be good. For sure you should at least give it a go. Bill, I agree completely but and this is a Kim K size BUT, you have to admit most are not going to make the investment in HDX cards, interfaces and patchbays etc you have made just to simplify workflow, it just isn’t as sexy as that new mic or comp.
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Post by drbill on Apr 28, 2022 17:42:13 GMT -6
I think once anyone gets to mix on a fully integrated hybrid system like the one I am rocking, with enough i/o and enough outboard, it's pretty hard to go back to either ITB or OTB on a console. If you can set it up, you should definitely check it out. I'm not sure how successful Logic will be with that type of workflow, but it might be good. For sure you should at least give it a go. Bill, I agree completely but and this is a Kim K size BUT, you have to admit most are not going to make the investment in HDX cards, interfaces and patchbays etc you have made just to simplify workflow, it just isn’t as sexy as that new mic or comp. You're probably right. But for creativity - workflow is king, and more important than gear. Wait....did I just say that? PS - my HDX rack is 6' tall or taller. I call it the tower of power!!
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Post by ericn on Apr 28, 2022 17:46:52 GMT -6
Bill, I agree completely but and this is a Kim K size BUT, you have to admit most are not going to make the investment in HDX cards, interfaces and patchbays etc you have made just to simplify workflow, it just isn’t as sexy as that new mic or comp. You're probably right. But for creativity - workflow is king, and more important than gear. Wait....did I just say that? PS - my HDX rack is 6' tall or taller. I call it the tower of power!! Man I have to find another old Cray rack so you can truly blow peoples minds! But yeah my friend you have set the bar for hybrid.
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Post by jmoose on Apr 28, 2022 19:06:04 GMT -6
Sorry Jmoose but we're getting a bit off context here and it's not the end of the world.. I'm under no illusion that a desk is necessary and I can create decent tracks with my Shelford / MOTU plus some plugs. Done it, been there and now I'm looking to integrate HW because that's what I want. Is that okay with you? Oh sure everything is ok with me. I'm not losing any sleep here... if anything its all really amusing. Kinda like a soap opera. Was under the impression you were looking for ideas & help..? But like I said we're coming at things from vastly different places and I guess I can't quite relate. Myself & others have offered many options but seems none of them are good enough? Dunno. At this point it all seems rather funny to me in an entertaining way.
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Post by thirdeye on Apr 28, 2022 20:08:13 GMT -6
I think once anyone gets to mix on a fully integrated hybrid system like the one I am rocking, with enough i/o and enough outboard, it's pretty hard to go back to either ITB or OTB on a console. If you can set it up, you should definitely check it out. I'm not sure how successful Logic will be with that type of workflow, but it might be good. For sure you should at least give it a go. I agree. We run a setup similar to yours with Pro Tools HDX2. We have 64 hardware inserts., with the addition of external summing (using a fully recallable and automatable SSL Sigma) with it's own dedicated i/o. We have a D-Command for Pro Tools control.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Apr 28, 2022 20:48:46 GMT -6
I've always thought the Speck LiLo looked great for this sort of setup. As someone who loves my Speck viaFADER 16, craigmorris74 brings up a great point. Not a cheap route, but the LiLo might be an ideal route. You'd have all the flexibility of a desk.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Apr 28, 2022 21:07:26 GMT -6
I've always thought the Speck LiLo looked great for this sort of setup. As someone who loves my Speck viaFADER 16, craigmorris74 brings up a great point. Not a cheap route, but the LiLo might be an ideal route. You'd have all the flexibility of a desk. I think it’s main problem is a lack of bling factor. It’s very utilitarian.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Apr 28, 2022 21:17:24 GMT -6
As someone who loves my Speck viaFADER 16, craigmorris74 brings up a great point. Not a cheap route, but the LiLo might be an ideal route. You'd have all the flexibility of a desk. I think it’s main problem is a lack of bling factor. It’s very utilitarian. Not to be argumentative, but I've always thought the LiLo was really beautiful. The features, for hybrid, are incredible.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 21:40:53 GMT -6
Sorry Jmoose but we're getting a bit off context here and it's not the end of the world.. I'm under no illusion that a desk is necessary and I can create decent tracks with my Shelford / MOTU plus some plugs. Done it, been there and now I'm looking to integrate HW because that's what I want. Is that okay with you? Oh sure everything is ok with me. I'm not losing any sleep here... if anything its all really amusing. Kinda like a soap opera. Was under the impression you were looking for ideas & help..? But like I said we're coming at things from vastly different places and I guess I can't quite relate. Myself & others have offered many options but seems none of them are good enough? Dunno. At this point it all seems rather funny to me in an entertaining way. That was rhetorical chief, also are you in the same thread as I am? One of the first reply's was I use DAW inserts, guess what I'm trying out? There's been many great suggestions in this thread, from these options I need to figure out what's best for me.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Apr 28, 2022 21:59:35 GMT -6
I think it’s main problem is a lack of bling factor. It’s very utilitarian. Not to be argumentative, but I've always thought the LiLo was really beautiful. The features, for hybrid, are incredible. I agree, it’s an awesome looking pice. It just doesn’t have the right name on it (Neve, API, SSL) to get a lot of folks super hyped on it. For what it’s worth I built myself a sort of 4 channel unit inspired by the viaFaders. Perfect for post compression OTB mix moves.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 22:24:17 GMT -6
So I urr put the Avid Pro Tools HDX option together and it came to about $20K... Hmm.
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Post by thirdeye on Apr 28, 2022 22:33:13 GMT -6
So I urr put the Avid Pro Tools HDX option together and it came to about $20K... Hmm. What HDX configuration?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 22:43:50 GMT -6
So I urr put the Avid Pro Tools HDX option together and it came to about $20K... Hmm. What HDX configuration? MRTX Studio, HDX PCIE + Pro Tools Ultimate perpetual, Rackmount TB chassis for PCIE and S3 controller.
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Post by thirdeye on Apr 29, 2022 8:41:45 GMT -6
MRTX Studio, HDX PCIE + Pro Tools Ultimate perpetual, Rackmount TB chassis for PCIE and S3 controller. Right on. MTRX definitely looks cool and no doubt would sound great, but it's overkill for our setup here. We don't need the MTRX's monitor control or headphone facilities, since we already have the D-Command with Xmon (for monitoring) and Furman headphone distribution. I've never used a S3, but I've always thought it was pretty lacking in controls. It would be hard for me to move from a D-Command with dedicated EQ and Dynamics controls, as well as control for our XMon. But Pro Tools with HDX (and our Auroras w/LTHD cards - Pro Tools sees Avid HD i/o interfaces) is absolutely essential in our setup, working with so many hardware inserts. I wouldn't even think of using anything else. We still have a backup HD Accel rig that was great too, just Pro Tools HD10 is as far as it goes. Unless someone can show me a DAW that handles hardware inserts as seamlessly as Pro Tools HDX with Avid/Lynx w/LTHD converters. From what I read, every other DAW option, and even Pro Tools with third party interfaces, is a struggle.
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