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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 10:05:15 GMT -6
So - listening to some Colter Wall - whom I wasn’t very familiar with. Didn’t realize it was Dave Cobb. Anyway, listen to something like “Cowpoke”…sonically that’s just freaking amazing. The truth is, it’s a combination of everything. All the gear in the world - and DC is damn good at what he does. But it really got me thinking about the basic building blocks.
I’ve kinda gone back and forth with which I think is most critical. I guess I still think you should probably start with great DA. If you can’t hear things properly, there’s no point in the rest of it.
So now I’ve got the hots to get a more euphonic AD again. Think I’m probably leaning Burl. Since I really only do overdubs at my place, I’ve just thought it might be overkill. But you know what - I deserve better lol.
What day you, audio nerds?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 10:06:25 GMT -6
Also makes me wonder about tracking at a higher sample rate when I do my own stuff.
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Post by ragan on Feb 13, 2022 10:20:59 GMT -6
I miss my Burl Bomber. There are certain acoustic guitar recordings I did with it that I’ve just never quite replicated. I’ve always thought they’d come down in price someday (they’re quite old at this point) and I’d grab another one to try. They’re still damn expansive for 2 channels of ADC though.
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Post by bricejchandler on Feb 13, 2022 10:21:02 GMT -6
Wow really like that Colter Wall song.
I haven't been able to get into most modern country but I really like the space and subtlety here!
I don't think having a great AD like the Burl is a luxury.
Personally, I would get a really great AD before getting outboard eqs or compressors but that's just me!
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 10:41:38 GMT -6
You guys aren’t helping my wallet.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 13, 2022 11:03:25 GMT -6
There was one, you know where recently !  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 11:05:28 GMT -6
Well, I’m about to find out. Going to pick one up this afternoon.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 13, 2022 11:05:29 GMT -6
4 on reverb, 1 on eBay but in uk.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 11:09:10 GMT -6
Just got one off of Craigslist. One of the benefits of being in Nashville.
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 13, 2022 11:10:15 GMT -6
Well, I’m about to find out. Going to pick one up this afternoon. Can't wait to hear your impressions, John. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 11:11:16 GMT -6
Well, I’m about to find out. Going to pick one up this afternoon. Can't wait to hear your impressions, John. I’ve had one twice (lol) but sometimes I have to buy things several times to really assess how much difference it makes to me. I’m a shitty business person. |
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Post by mjheck on Feb 13, 2022 11:13:48 GMT -6
Like a lot of folks here, I certainly went on a winding path to find the right combination of "truth" and "bliss" in my conversion.
Short answer - I had the Burl and the 2192 - I preferred the 2192 for A to D.
They are clearly a little old now - I had to have the power supply replaced on mine - but the resolution and flexibility are still complete enough to integrate with a studio. The sole issue I had with mine was semantics - it literally says "audio interface" right on the front, but it still requires something else to talk to a DAW. I talked this through with UA customer support, and they confirmed it could not work as a stand alone interface. I do not recall if the Burl could.
Long answer for context: in chronological order, I believe my journey went something like this:
• Blue Snowball USB mic and a guitar cable adapter that would allow me to plug a 1/4 TS cable directly into the audio in port on a MacBook
• M Audio Fast Track
• M audio Project Mix
• Apogee Ensemble
• Prism Orpheus
• Apogee Duet 2
• Apogee Ensemble
• Benchmark DAC-1
• Burl Bomber
• First Generation UA Apollo Quad
• UA 2912
• Antelope Pure 2
• BLA Modded UAD Apollo Quad
• BLA Modded Apollo Twin
• Audient ID4
• Antelope Orion
• Audient ID44
• BLA Revolution
• BLA Modded Apollo Twin
A lot of this was "discovery" so to speak. Another driver was the constant push pull between best sound versus stability/simplicity (the whole "which set up is actually leading to me getting work done?).
My favorite DA to listen to was the Antelope Pure 2, followed by the 2192. However, they were almost "too pretty" and I found my mixes did not translate. My current favorite for listening and mixing is the BLA Revolution, but it has some quirks than make tracking a little less intuitive. I hated the software on the Prism and the Antelope Orion. Enough that the sonics did not matter - I returned both of those and have never regretted it (with a huge thank you to Vintage King for humoring my never ending search).
For those who are curious, it was when I got the Apollo Twin back from BLA that I felt comfortable streamlining. I don't know why, but thought both of my modded twins sounded much better than my modded rack mount unit. I thought the modded twin was indistinguishable from the Benchmark DAC-1.
My wife and I live in Tulum now, which does not offer a lot of pro audio access. Aside from streamlining for the move, I also built with redundancy in mind - I have two BLA modded Apollo Twins. I also have two Audient interfaces which are just easy and sound fine (we moved right when the M1 came out and I needed a non UAD option since it was not compatible at first). I bought the BLA Revolution right when it came out. I think it sounds great, as noted earlier. No drivers at all - just core audio.
I should also note that I record and mix only using Audeze MX4 headphones, so the headphone amp becomes critical to my needs (as opposed to the stereo output) and I record either mono or stereo but not more.
How's that for a meandering and unsatisfying answer? : )
JMH
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 13, 2022 11:32:39 GMT -6
Can't wait to hear your impressions, John. I’ve had one twice (lol) but sometimes I have to buy things several times to really assess how much difference it makes to me. I’m a shitty business person. Ha! While I'm familiar with your Sta-Level journey, I didn't know you were a multiple-time owner of Burl also. Well, in that case, I look forward to hearing your February 2022 impressions of the Burl. |
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Post by drsax on Feb 13, 2022 11:51:37 GMT -6
So - listening to some Colter Wall - whom I wasn’t very familiar with. Didn’t realize it was Dave Cobb. Anyway, listen to something like “Cowpoke”…sonically that’s just freaking amazing. The truth is, it’s a combination of everything. All the gear in the world - and DC is damn good at what he does. But it really got me thinking about the basic building blocks. I’ve kinda gone back and forth with which I think is most critical. I guess I still think you should probably start with great DA. If you can’t hear things properly, there’s no point in the rest of it. So now I’ve got the hots to get a more euphonic AD again. Think I’m probably leaning Burl. Since I really only do overdubs at my place, I’ve just thought it might be overkill. But you know what - I deserve better lol. What day you, audio nerds? The Burl AD has served me for almost a decade now. No fuss and beautiful depth. I haven’t even thought of trying anything else because it just always sounds amazing. Sometimes I forget it’s there, until I have to track additional channels through “normal” AD. Then I realize how amazing it captures the source |
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Post by gwlee7 on Feb 13, 2022 11:55:13 GMT -6
I’ve had one twice (lol) but sometimes I have to buy things several times to really assess how much difference it makes to me. I’m a shitty business person. Ha! While I'm familiar with your Sta-Level journey, I didn't know you were a multiple-time owner of Burl also. Well, in that case, I look forward to hearing your February 2022 impressions of the Burl. I literally snorted. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 13, 2022 13:39:12 GMT -6
Dave Cobb's brilliant for sure. When I ran a SF Apollo long ago the B2 ADC was the first upgrade for that and the difference was pretty massive.
Look forward to hearing your impressions of it, third time around!
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 13, 2022 13:49:51 GMT -6
My studio got a Burl Mothership a few years back (upgraded from the Avid HD io) and there was an improvement for sure, but it wasn't anything shocking. I noticed a larger difference in printing mixes thru my RND MBC vs through my Avid IO. That RND is a pretty special box, IMHO.
But then as a disclaimer, I should note that I am generally of the opinion that if your tracks don't sound great, your conversion is not to blame. People made some pretty exceptional-sounding records with the crumby Digi 192s, after all...
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Post by jmoose on Feb 13, 2022 14:16:55 GMT -6
My studio got a Burl Mothership a few years back (upgraded from the Avid HD io) and there was an improvement for sure, but it wasn't anything shocking. I noticed a larger difference in printing mixes thru my RND MBC vs through my Avid IO. That RND is a pretty special box, IMHO. But then as a disclaimer, I should note that I am generally of the opinion that if your tracks don't sound great, your conversion is not to blame. People made some pretty exceptional-sounding records with the crumby Digi 192s, after all... 1000% this. Its been a long while since I heard a converter that made a massive difference in the final sound. People made great sounding records even with old Panasonic 3700 and Digi 888 boxes. I actually listened to an old one yesterday & everything I did & didn't like about the mixes had nothing to do with the converters. If someone dropped a few grand on my desk & said go buy something that makes a difference? I'd be looking at mics & outboard gear. Converters are kinda like tape machines. Years ago the debate was Studer vs Otari vs MCI. We all have our preferences but ultimately any of them are capable of the job. I've done real time blind A/B shootouts on a handful of occasions and typically once they get flipped several times? Its hard to know what's what. YMMV. IMO the converter debate is like debating which brand of motor oil increases horsepower. Again YMMV! |
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Post by bossanova on Feb 13, 2022 14:33:52 GMT -6
I've recently started leaning towards tracking chain and monitoring chain/DA having a bigger end result on the sound. If it sounds the way I want it to before it hits the converters, and I can hear the recorded results accurately afterward, it guides me to quicker results and faster working overall.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 13, 2022 14:35:21 GMT -6
I had the Burl Bomber for a week around 4 or 5 years ago when I had the blackface 2nd gen Apollo. It was sweet, kinda reminded me a little of a Neve sound. It made everything a little better.
I think it helped the recordings sound more finished and professional. You have to like its sound though because it's quite euphonic. I do wish I could have kept it, but just couldn't afford it at the time.
These days I wish for a Dangerous Music 2 Bus +. To my ears, it has the right color that resembles a big console sound. I sure wouldn't mind a Burl on the front end though. This is partly why I debate keeping an Apollo. The Apollo is a workhorse, but I rarely print with plug-ins, and don't need Luna, so a satellite would be all I really need in order to keep a few favorite plug-ins.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 13, 2022 14:36:46 GMT -6
Cool! I've always been curious about those Burls.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 14:43:46 GMT -6
I stand corrected. The Dave Cobb record was 2018. The one I was referencing was 2020 and all I can find is that it's self produced. Vocals are definitely more mid forward. Wow...listen to "Thinking On A Woman" on "Song of the Plains." Love all the space that - sounds like - a mono verb gives that Acoustic panned right.
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 13, 2022 14:51:15 GMT -6
One last thought about converters is this: for folks working at the highest levels (in terms of their engineering skills, NOT the client they're recording), I'd say that 1% extra you get from a converter is probably a worthy investment. Kinda like an elite racer looking for the right band of motor oil, or an olympic swimmer removing any trace of body hair. If you're THAT good, then the small margins of benefit these tools offer are probably worth the cost and represent a significant value.
But I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be anywhere NEAR that good 🤣
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 15:21:09 GMT -6
Got it set up...it's Super Bowl Sunday, and if history is any teacher, I won't really be able to tell with one mono vocal...maybe with acoustic...probably have more of an idea once I build some tracks with it.
I guess I'm going to do some listening...wonder whether I should concern myself with having one master clock? I could just leave the Burl on its own internal and then use the Dangerous as the master for it and the Apollo, right? Wish the Apollo had freaking AES connections.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2022 15:33:42 GMT -6
Well...just sitting here listening to different reference songs. I do believe the Convert 2 sounds better clocked to the Burl. I swear there's more width in the stereo field. Maybe it's confirmation bias...
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