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Post by Ward on May 18, 2014 6:11:48 GMT -6
The Pro Tools virtual instrument 'DB33' works very well for me. I was a church organist for several years in my youth plus have played many Hammonds since then and know what a good Hammond should sound like and how they react to drawbar and leslie speed changes. I can get very believable results from DB33.
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Post by levon on May 23, 2014 2:01:09 GMT -6
Yes, I do cut remote organ tracks. Has anybody listened to the tracks in Popmann's signature? Man, this is some serious stuff, do yourself a favor and check it out. Amazing. Love it!! Jamie, can I only buy the download files or do you also have a physical CD available? I might have a need for some B3 tracks in the future, I'll pm you. Currently working on an up-tempo rockpop song, it's not there yet, but maybe a rocking B3 solo would fit nicely.
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Post by popmann on Jun 6, 2014 20:48:21 GMT -6
Sorry...no CDs planned. But, thanks for the listen kind words. That is my C3/122. All the emulations do fine, IME. Meaning--sorry, the physical modeling based emulations. The ones I can move the drawbars on...I own a few...the Korg Cx3 engine in the Kronos, which they just reworked, but I haven't spent any time with because--well, there's a C3 ten feet away! But, I actually still have my Voce V3 that goes with my MIDI drawbar unit that I bought in....95'ish? 94? I remember having to drive a few hours each way to a store that stocked it and listening to Jackson Browne's (then new) CD "Looking east"--so, whatever year that was released! My point being--it still sounds fine. In fact, I keep it because if (knock on wood) I ever had to get SUPER lean...the difference in it plugged into my 122 and the C3 is fairly trivial. Tangible live there in the room...but, I maintain that any of the portable model based organ emus plugged into an old Leslie sounds authentic enough.
But, that does NOT include "Leslie like amps"....Motion Sound--might as well use the built in sim, IME. I still think the NI B4v1 gives the best sim. I had to upgrade to the v2 for my OSX machines to run it....but, I still have v1 working on a 64bit Win7 box--not even interested in installing the upgrade.
As always YMMV.
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Post by popmann on Dec 30, 2015 15:22:26 GMT -6
I wanted to bump this with an interesting tidbit....I'd not run my Hammond emulation since moving the DAW to double sample rates....in playing with the MacBook, I pulled up the old B4v2....in the 88.2 session....and really--it's wonderful. I also took the time to finally map my Voce MIDI Drawbar unit's control to it--the drawbars themselves are mapped by defualt, but I mapped the rest of the controller....really lovely. I mean, it's not like I'm gonna sell the C3/122 any time soon...but, that's not really what this thread was about, right? What's the best emulation?
Still the B4. V2 I often say sounds worse....but, I think it's really the MUCH more elaborate cabinet and air and ambience options combined with horrible presets that color that....it certainoy sounded lovely at 88.2 last night. I wonder if that was a consideration....because, on the PC running v1 I have been choosing the Korg CX3 engine for quick demo ideas over the B4....but, there's no doubt the B4v2 on the Mac last night at 88.2 was the best emulation I've played.
Also bumping because has anyone really jumped into Dave Amel's new one for LogicX? If there were a demo of LogicX that I could run, I'd love to shoot them out....however, if you HAVE LogicX....you literally can't run the B4, which sucks. I think it stopped working on the Mac side after 10.8. NI says after 10.7, but I can verify that v2 runs on my 10.8 iMac just fine. Dave Amel was the guy who both created the first modelled hammond....AND who years later said the B4 was the next best thing to real....Apple DOES hire good people, for sure.
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Post by Ward on Dec 30, 2015 16:03:26 GMT -6
Delete this... I already covered this, dad gum it.
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Post by mobeach on Dec 30, 2015 16:32:39 GMT -6
My Casio PX-5S Digital Piano burns NI or any other software I've used.
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Post by henge on Dec 30, 2015 21:43:53 GMT -6
Yes, I do cut remote organ tracks. Has anybody listened to the tracks in Popmann's signature? Man, this is some serious stuff, do yourself a favor and check it out. Amazing. Love it!! Jamie, can I only buy the download files or do you also have a physical CD available? I might have a need for some B3 tracks in the future, I'll pm you. Currently working on an up-tempo rockpop song, it's not there yet, but maybe a rocking B3 solo would fit nicely. popmann 's stuff sounds excellent for sure! What do you guys think about VB3?
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Post by popmann on Dec 30, 2015 22:46:39 GMT -6
My Casio PX-5S Digital Piano burns NI or any other software I've used. Hmm. b4 or the thing they sell now? How do you move the drawbars while you play it? Does it use CC or Sysex for that? I've heard it, but not played it....because I heard it. It sounded like a sample. Is it not? Sampling it I'll equipped to emulate a Hammond. Now, if you just play a static drawbar with the amp dimed....aka rock organ, you may even prefer samples. But moving the drawbars while you play is to important to how I play to you samples. The VB3 is the only VST I'm aware of that uses modeling and is still available for purchase. So, it kinda has to "win" for that, but when I did the demo, I pretty well thought it was like Logic's EVb3 (from logic 5-9, not the new one I've not played)--which is "fine but not the B4".
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Post by levon on Dec 31, 2015 3:10:22 GMT -6
From what people who use Logic X told me, the new Logic organ is supposed to be fantastic, 'the best emulation ever'. I heard it in a track and it sounded pretty real. It was a rock track with static drawbars, though.
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Post by M57 on Dec 31, 2015 5:31:18 GMT -6
I haven't used Logic's Hammond yet, but I'm sure everything about it can be automated after the fact. So my plan would/will be to get a good performance with one hand on the rotating speakers - then go and write other 'real-time' changes in the performance - like DBs. A couple months ago I recorded an accordion part for MJB using Logic's accordion. Making it sound like the real thing was a combination of playing licks that sounded right given its limitations (there are just to many articulations that it can't handle) and a couple hours going in and drawing curves in one of the oscillator/modulators to make it breath with the swells. There's just no comparison to the real thing, but a good performance (and I include going in and automating sound parameters as a performance characteristic) goes a long way.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 31, 2015 14:08:23 GMT -6
I just bought Komplete - gonna try out the Vintage Organs. What's the difference in that and B4?
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Post by mobeach on Dec 31, 2015 14:19:19 GMT -6
My Casio PX-5S Digital Piano burns NI or any other software I've used. Hmm. b4 or the thing they sell now? How do you move the drawbars while you play it? Does it use CC or Sysex for that? I've heard it, but not played it....because I heard it. It sounded like a sample. Is it not? Sampling it I'll equipped to emulate a Hammond. Now, if you just play a static drawbar with the amp dimed....aka rock organ, you may even prefer samples. But moving the drawbars while you play is to important to how I play to you samples. The VB3 is the only VST I'm aware of that uses modeling and is still available for purchase. So, it kinda has to "win" for that, but when I did the demo, I pretty well thought it was like Logic's EVb3 (from logic 5-9, not the new one I've not played)--which is "fine but not the B4". Yes it's samples, and the MIDI controllers (sliders and knobs) on the left side of the unit change the tone greatly while playing. It's obviously not a dawbar organ but it has some really nice organ tones. I don't know the specifics of the sound design, maybe this will help. www.casio-music.com/euro/instruments/technical-insights/air-technology/
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2015 15:39:43 GMT -6
I just bought Komplete - gonna try out the Vintage Organs. What's the difference in that and B4? I don't know who at NI ok'd killing the engine that brought'em. It's sample based for starters. They sampled each drawbar if memory serves. It's just a step backwards in realism to me--it made me think NI kind of accidentally got the B4 right. But, they want everything to run from the two engines. It financially makes sense--I "get" that....but, the B4 was one of the handful of instuments that MADE them who they are...I dunno...I know the sound isn't as cool as it was in 2000, but....I'm sure for a non organist it's fine, as samples generally will be.
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2015 20:27:49 GMT -6
I know a guy that brings his C3 and Leslie to the monthly blues jam that I mix at. I agree completely that is all about the drawbars and knowing how to control the rig. Some piano player sat in on the c3 for a couple songs and it was a huge dropoff. Not because of the playing, but the control of the instrument. I'm honestly a fairly hack keyboard player. It was the instrument I picked up in college because I "had to" for theory classes. I've never been able to develop good enough hand independence to approach being "good". But, people really like my Hammond playing. It's a combination of the "non keyboard playing" of the instrument--and my arranger's ear for utilizing the drawbars to fill in frequency holes in the arrangement. ie--it's not about "this cool sound"--it's about adjusting them to compliment the guitars and/or piano around it in context. And, somehow--playing with my right hand and flipping all the controls with the left (and foot) DOES work--that kind of independence, I can handle. However--I DO still occasionally miss using my foot to control the leslie speed like I did during the whole era of emulations for me. I talked to Murph about installing a footswitch for the Leslie, but he brought up a good point--if I continued doing that I could only play organs that had been modded that way, which isn't most of them....good point.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 31, 2015 20:28:12 GMT -6
So, you're talking about the emulation as a whole, though, right? Are you saying B4II sounds better than the sampled VO's?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 31, 2015 20:44:20 GMT -6
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/05-you-dont-know-me Nothing beats a great organist!
Here's what I think is a good example of a good organ sound that's supportive, it's just a patch from a keyboard. My friend Wally Smith is a session cat from Philadelphia. He's been on hundreds of albums. He listened to my demo on the drive to New York, and cut the entire album in seven hours. This is from my 2006 album, "Watching the Days Fall". The mp3 might be a little crunchy, but here ya go. Vocal and acoustic guitar were done together, in one take, no click track, so it sways a little because it was done when I wasn't well, I added all the instruments later.
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Post by popmann on Jan 1, 2016 21:33:45 GMT -6
So, you're talking about the emulation as a whole, though, right? Are you saying B4II sounds better than the sampled VO's? The problem is that's not a simple answer--a sample will always sound more realistic in a given moment--a given stab of a chord....but, it will fail to me malleable over time--meaning the change from riff to riff, section to section in the same song. I remember demo'ing it and thinking it was a big step backwards, but honestly--I didn't have a long demo to actually try to use it in musical contexts or anything....so, YMMV. You own it--do you like it? That's really all that matters unless you're a real cork sniffer of the instrument. There's something about a Hammond and Leslie that it's in my DNA.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2016 0:27:30 GMT -6
Yeah, that's what I was asking...considering my B3 playing abilities, I won't be sliding too many drawbars lol. I still haven't loaded Komplete yet - so freaking lazy. I've used it before, though and tended to like VB3 better. But even VB3 can get fakey sounding. I guess it's really all in the performance though.
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Post by popmann on Jan 2, 2016 21:07:04 GMT -6
Refreshed myself this evening. It (VO in Kontakt) sounds better for driven Leslie sounds. It's weird to have WAY too much key click and only be able to adjust it with an "attack" the makes it mushier....and doesn't adjust the release. What it does better is simply padding chords with some drive. Levon should maybe try it out--I know he digs on that the really grinding driven Hammond tone.
I think emulation can all "get fakey sounding" in certain note and drawabar registers....you have to play around the odd. But, that's also why such differing opinion--since HOW you play a Hammond varies...and whether you want realistic or "the way it sounded on record X"--you know....it will vary what you dig. I know a guy who swears by his Bx3 (dual manual version of the Korg Cx3 engine)--I think it's "fine" and the B4 easily beats it when you start sitting it in a mix.
But, what I can guarantee? They're ALL good enough if you pump it out through a Leslie.
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wagz
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Post by wagz on Jan 2, 2016 21:38:47 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2016 23:13:45 GMT -6
Yeah - this one does sound pretty dang good...
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2016 23:20:33 GMT -6
This is interesting - Melda Vintage Rotary...
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wagz
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Post by wagz on Jan 3, 2016 0:41:13 GMT -6
This is interesting - Melda Vintage Rotary... Sound Dust has a deal worked out with Melda. They will give you a slight discount on MVintageRotary if you give them the code from Sound Dust.
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Post by ragan on Jul 30, 2018 15:51:07 GMT -6
Yeah - this one does sound pretty dang good... So I'm not really up on Kontakt stuff. What would I need to use this thing? I'm looking for a B3 VI and I like the sonics of this one.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2018 17:47:34 GMT -6
I stuck with B5 and didn't try this one.
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