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Post by chessparov on Dec 29, 2021 1:37:42 GMT -6
Regarding both tracking vocals and also instruments. Thanks, Chris
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Post by sean on Dec 29, 2021 8:45:44 GMT -6
Working with Hearback/similar “More Me” mixes, I send a stereo mix of what I’m listening to and tell the band “this is a mix, turn this up and adjust as needed”. Usually musicians don’t want to hear the singer as loud as the singer, and no one wants to hear the click as loud as the drummer, so those always get their own knob/fader
If I’m overdubbing a singer I usually just send them a stereo mix and adjust it to their taste.
It works a lot better when everyone is playing to the same mix, in my experience. It’s shocking what you hear when you put on musicians headphones sometimes and often it’s because they don’t understand how to use the mixer and they don’t speak up and ask for help and later bitch about how bad the headphones sound 😂
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Post by svart on Dec 29, 2021 8:56:10 GMT -6
I use cheap behringer mixers for the headphone mixers and I send 4 stereo tracks out to them (guitars, bass, drums, vocals/effects). Each artist can tailor their own headphone mix as they desire because every band member wants something drastically different.
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Post by drumsound on Dec 29, 2021 11:15:08 GMT -6
I just have a stereo feed to the musicians, so they need to agree on a mix. They can adjust the overall volume of their headphones at the headphone amp. I don't usually put drums into the headphones until the drummer is done playing, unless it's requested, or I have a person in the iso booth. Usually, everyone is in the live room and amps are isolated. When I teach I "suggest" that one always starts with guitars low-ish in the headphones because, in my experience, wherever you put the guitars, the guitarist will always ask for more of it. Starting with them low gives you somewhere to go when they ask for more.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2021 12:06:27 GMT -6
Oops I misunderstood your question so deleted my response: movin on !
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 29, 2021 12:12:38 GMT -6
Regarding both tracking vocals and also instruments. Thanks, Chris At the risk of sounding like a smart-ass, I just endeavor to get really good sounds at the source. Make sure dynamics are well-controlled and that there's minimal mud or harshness, meaning, compress and eq to tape as necessary. That tends to translate to an excellent headphone mix.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 29, 2021 14:10:28 GMT -6
I was told never to listen to music on headphones, when you're emailing anyone.
Otherwise you can end up, stereo typing!
Thanks guys, for all the helpful responses. Chris P.S. How about compression and reverb?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 29, 2021 15:55:41 GMT -6
The only thing worse than mixing cans is mixing wedges, everybody is different and self mixing leads to level creep.
As far as dynamics and fx everybody is different start with very little and find the sweet spot. In the studio, not stage I have been known to use a different comp or verb just on a singers vocal just to make them happy, I’m talking different comp from what I’ll use on the track or mix, if it gets the performance it’s worth it.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 29, 2021 17:31:42 GMT -6
Maybe I'm a tyrant but I always wanted my own bands to have pretty much the same headphone mix with the drummer being the merciful exception. I've never been a massive jerk about it, but I always felt like we would play off of each other better if we were working with the same canvas.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 29, 2021 19:05:19 GMT -6
Maybe I'm a tyrant but I always wanted my own bands to have pretty much the same headphone mix with the drummer being the merciful exception. I've never been a massive jerk about it, but I always felt like we would play off of each other better if we were working with the same canvas. For some this works fine but for most everyone thinks they need to hear something different, but I’ll agree drummers need a different mix as do singers. I’m not allowed to tell you how many special mixes were copies of each other with maybe a 1 or 2 dB difference somewhere. On a control surface or digital board it’s fun to a/b 2 Different monitor feeds and see how similar they are.
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 29, 2021 20:26:48 GMT -6
If you stand in front of your rig (as most do) at practice and at gigs, you’ll probably play your best in the studio if you can hear more of yourself in the cans.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 29, 2021 21:45:05 GMT -6
If you stand in front of your rig (as most do) at practice and at gigs, you’ll probably play your best in the studio if you can hear more of yourself in the cans. I'm operating under the assumption that you would have a fair amount of your own amp bleeding in through the cans in the studio. I've never really felt comfortable in the uber-isolated type studio scenarios. Always felt weird to me when I couldn't feel the rumble and the air moving. Realistically most keeper parts are done as overdubs anyway in a typical recording so it's really about creating a great feel for the foundation of the track and for the drummer. I've been getting away from that lately and trying to keep more of the "scratch" stuff but, even then, that's usually just feel type stuff and I also think I'm in the minority on that.
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Post by ericn on Dec 29, 2021 22:40:40 GMT -6
If you stand in front of your rig (as most do) at practice and at gigs, you’ll probably play your best in the studio if you can hear more of yourself in the cans. I think some of the needs are more about blasting past latency rather than real monitoring needs.
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Post by dinoziogas on Jan 7, 2022 13:09:43 GMT -6
Regarding reverb: Use mainly early reflections for the sense of space and keep any tails short - long tails and obvious reverb mess with pitch perception. Regarding compression: soft knee taking out 3-4dBs will do the trick if the singer is used to it.
The best headphone mix is no headphones but speaker mix but this is another story and can of worms...
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Post by srb on Jan 7, 2022 13:40:50 GMT -6
Aviom system here, 16 channels. I send out a stereo mix and a mono track for each individual's instrument/vocal along with kick and snare. Sometimes I'll put in a click (I don't like having to use them if I can help it). On rare occasion I'll put in the overheads---especially if the drummer is heavy-handed cymbal basher (to remind him to back it up a bit). I have seen musicians mess up their own mix, and I have to help sort them out. Not too often, though, thankfully.
I worked for years with a just a good stereo mix as the main cue, (sometimes) supplemented by an aux tailored to the player when necessary.
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Post by dinoziogas on Jan 7, 2022 13:45:50 GMT -6
You'll also be surprised how much better final overdubs are when you cue the talent a semifinal mix...
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Post by thirdeye on Jan 7, 2022 15:21:36 GMT -6
We've been using a Furman HD6 with 8 or so mixers for years. The mixers have one stereo channel and 4 mono channels. It's a little old and limited in features, but still going strong. The Furman mixers use a mount that goes onto a mic stand, and we have a SM58 on each stand for a talkback mic.
I'll track with some outboard compression and EQ if needed, committing along the way. Also while tracking I'll use AAX DSP plugins if needed to get closer to the finished sound or to make the headphone mix sound as good as it can.
When tracking full bands, I'll do a stereo drum mix, and mono instruments and vocals. During level check when tracking the band, I'll copy my control room mix of the drums to the stereo aux sending to the Furman (minus room tracks usually-add click) - bring kick and snare up a little, cymbals down a little, and that's a good starting point for the stereo drum mix. Then individual instruments like bass, gtr 1, gtr 2, keys, piano, etc.. (with their associated talkback mic) and vocals I'll split out to the other 4 mono faders.
During vocal tracking, I'll give a stereo full band mix and also individual vocal tracks on each mono fader. I'll start by copying my control room mix to the stereo aux feeding the Furman stereo fader, and each vocal track get assigned to it's own mono fader (or just one fader if needed). If requested, vocal reverb gets added and sent to the associated vocal track aux.
I mixed FOH and monitors including IEM's for years. I'm used to each person needing individual attention.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 7, 2022 15:29:28 GMT -6
Headphone mixes are the bane of my existence. That's why I invested in the Behringer Power Play system. Now whoever is in the studio and dial in their own mix however they want.
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Post by christopher on Jan 7, 2022 16:03:59 GMT -6
People will probably perform way better with a very different headphone mix than what’s recorded. Something we forget is when you are wearing cans, it’s like wearing earplugs, your ears pickup a massive amount of low-passed live sound. And the headphone feed is really a parallel feed to this low-passed live thing. So if you are next to a live dynamic guitar amp, a compressed bright feed maybe would help balance it and feel great. But for the recording that may not be the right direction. Voice it’s good to sing into the mic yourself when setting cans for others so you learn what that balance is
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Post by WKG on Jan 7, 2022 22:51:31 GMT -6
I use RME totalmix. I'll set up a good basic mix in my headphones then duplicate it out to the musicians and tweak to their preferences. Pretty simple and I can always cue in their mix to adjust if needed. With totalmix I can run up to 8 separate stereo mixes.
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