To UA or not?

Does anybody ever zoom out and laugh at audio forums? Some of this stuff we talk about is pretty hilarious from that perspective.

Everyone I talk to seems to think I'm doing fine. I guess I've lost the passion for the nitty gritty audio geeking, I just want to make music.

That said, I just spent $20 for the UAD API Vision channel strip. I "couldn't resist" haha. Guess I need to "make some music" so I can test it out.

That's a good deal I think. You use the two holiday coupons on the right side of the Cart and you get down to $20 for this plugin.

“The strategy was Vision channel strip > preamp > 2500 > Luna extension, with thank you coupons after each purchase, after which you got one final coupon for the EQ collection.“

So using Lynx or RME you can have a 96k mix session with tons of tracks full of tons of plugins and then record more overdubs at the lowest buffer size and get stable performance and near-zero latency? I'm not trying to argue I'm just genuinely curious. It seems like the newest computers might actually be capable of this.

I sold my x8 and am very happy with my 24 ch Aurora N which I got for 3400$.

I really only use UA for the reverb & delays plug-ins and the very occasional EQ. I really feel Tokyo dawn is a much better choice for plug-in compression

That said the UA verbs and delays I wouldn’t want to be without, I also use the autotune from UAD

I bought into the Apollos as a much less expensive alternative to HD/HDX, and every time I do the research, I come back to Apollos as being the best solution for me. I'm not talking about dsp plugins while tracking either, although that is a major bonus. I'm not trying to start an argument, it just sounded like you already knew of some specific interfaces that can do a better job of what the Apollo and UA environment do, so it piqued my interest.

I considered the Apogee Ensemble at one point, which looks to be Apogee's comparable interface. It seems to have a decent monitor controller built in. But the demo I saw of the direct monitoring feature made it seem pretty clunky compared to UA Console. It didn't seem like something that would be quick and easy to use during a chaotic full band session. Admittedly this a was probably 4 or 5 years ago so maybe it's better now? Also, last I checked you couldn't daisy chain multiple Apogee interfaces together like you can with Apollos.

It looks like the comparable RME interface is the Fireface. If I added the ARC controller I would have the monitor control. Quick research indicates that it can't be daisy chained. Is their TotalMix direct monitoring software any good? Easy and quick to set up 4 different headphone cues? UA's headphone cues are faster to setup than they are on an analog board.

But then both of these options are substantially more expensive than what I paid for either of my Apollos, and they don't seem to kick the crap out of the Apollo in any way, shape, or form from what I can tell. So I'm not even sure why I'd be trying to switch in the first place.


 

Apollos are great as well, I'm not denying that. And if it's working for you, and you are used to the workflow, I wouldn't change that easily.

But I do prefer the sound and even the features of other options.

That's a loaded question though, DSP isn't even necessary at all in some circumstances. My 2018 MBP hexa can run a hundred instances of mixing plugins at 32 samples and it'll still be barely ticking over, never mind something like a Ryzen 16 core which is twice as powerful as an M 10 core pro Mac. Then again I've run into a lot of issues native which lives or dies by the quality of its interface, drivers and plugins. If I use Kontakt, certain vsts or plugs I can hit buffer drops at 30 - 40% CPU usage (that was with an RME UFX 2 as well).

Although with a decent machine / interface I'm not really sure what the point of these zero latency DSP mixing consoles are (besides from a quick cue mix). Apart from MH most of the aforementioned DSP mixers aren't of the same sonic quality as UA or native, I've only tried RME, MH and MOTU though. However the Apollo only really makes sense to me if you're actively invested in their entire ecosystem, its innate latency is sub par (especially for TB), it falls over long before something like an RME will with native plugs, conversion is subjective but I'm not entirely sold and it's expensive compared to native.

Ultimately though if you're looking for a decent quality one stop shop that makes good use of DSP for low latency production work then it's pretty hard to beat, use UA instruments and pre sim's for tracking, Luna for LL mixing / dubs etc. It's essentially a full high end studio simulation in a box that's no fuss, simple to use and effective. I can see the allure for sure but it's definitely not a necessity, neither do I think it's a replacement for proper HW but then again for the cost of two Shelford's you could buy an Apollo + every plugin they make.

I know peeps have concerns about ua plug retail prices but the current sale with the coupons is unprecedented.

I have just bought two $299 plugs ins for $38 total.

Check you account.

If you buy one plug in, UA seems to be apparently automatically sending you another $25 thank you coupon which you can stack with the other coupons on top of the already reduced sale price.

I track with hardware through Apollos. Best of both worlds I guess? I don't use many plugins on the way in, occasionally reverbs or delays. When you need it it's a great feature to have.

Sometimes I get a little confused when people complain about the latency of Apollos, but of course the only time latency is an issue is tracking virtual instruments, which I don't do much of.

Recording at low buffer sizes to get low latency has never been that stable for me, nor has the latency been zero. But I haven't tried the newest M1s or Ryzen computers, so maybe those are finally able to deliver reliable zero latency regardless of what else is going on in the session. Maybe an M1 with RME delivers comparable performance to direct monitoring.

RME surely has lower RTL for VIs. I've only compared their converters one time and it was against Apogee several years ago. The Apogee sounded significantly better to my ears. 

For ME, someone who regularly tracks and mixes full bands and needs a rock-solid zero latency system, needs to quickly set up 4 different headphone cues, who sometimes needs to record overdubs even after a "final mix" has been delivered, and who rarely records VIs, I haven't found a system better than the Apollo and UA Console. But I'm always keeping my ears and options open, which is why I was asking these questions. I know I sound like a UA fanboy or whatever, but the system just works great for my needs, and every time I look into something else it falls flat. Despite people saying there are plenty of other great options, I haven't heard a specific option named that would do a better job that I can look into.

Pro Tools Carbon looks to be the best alternative I've seen, but it's literally twice as expensive as what I paid for my x8 brand new. I realize I got a great deal on the x8. If I were starting over I might go with the Carbon, but I would need to spend a lot more to get the same amount of i/o and I wouldn't have the terrific UA plugs.

*Nods, well the order has been finalised and processed.. I dropped the Octo, in the extremely rare event I need ITB processing plugs (like a de-esser) it turns out DAW's like Logic have them already, who knew?

On a serious note two VST's and 5 or so plugs across 25 or so tracks isn't going to tax a machine from 2005 so I'm not too concerned about the semi-recent MBP in regards to latency etc. The rest is of course entirely OTB including instruments and synths etc. ultimately in my specific scenario I agree, it really wasn't necessary. Ended up getting $1500.00 for the Apollo alone as a trade in so.. Meh, I can always get an Octo later if necessary.

Like KCat said, there should be a $25 Holiday coupon in your account that you can add to the -$75 coupon.

Then you will get a $25 "Thank You" coupon and you can get Capitol Chambers for 68 bucks or something (I don't remember exactly)

Then you will get another thank you coupon that you can continue the spree with if you like, and so on.