|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 10, 2021 9:33:51 GMT -6
I plan to get a Mac Mini when the next gen is released. Thunderbolt has been solid since introduced. But I like the idea of analogue summing and if SSL's A/D-D/A is better than UAD's, then it's got me interested. Sure I'd like separate converters, but the price tag just keeps going up and up every time I think on my gear wish list. If I sold my Apollo and bought a Quad Octo to run a few of their plugs, would I lose anything with USB? I use Logic, I imagine I could put some plug-ins on a track then come out into the SSL for mixing, but would that cause latency issues since some tracks won't have any plugs? Or does Logic automatically compensate? I do occasionally print some UAD effects when tracking, but it's no big deal doing without that, besides, I'd like to get an outboard compressor for tracking vocals anyway. I already have the Dizengoff D4 and Stam SA-73 preamps and would probably add a couple more over time. This is the type of use case that appeals to me as well. I'm already summing out to my Cranborne 500ADAT but having 12 tracks (four mono, four stereo) would make it way easier. The limited EQ and Compression doesn't bother me at all since I'd only be doing mild touch-ups by this point. I have plenty of compression options (outboard and ITB) and tend to be fairly conservative with EQ anyway at by the time I'm mixing my busses. The issue is, I'd have to sell stuff because I didn't build my studio around this type of workflow and it would probably do more harm than good to restructure in my case. On the side... I don't get the skepticism on this device. To me I see a "large format desktop console" if that makes sense. This should be compared to things like the Mackie Onyx series and various ZED type desks. I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't WAY better. The other thing to compare it to is the upcoming Alice series which look like they might be higher quality but way more expensive and without any conversion. Last comment... all SSL devices have balanced inserts (I assume this does too) so you can use the sends on the mono channels as outs. And they come after the processing (just before AD conversion I believe). Yeah, not quite like having outs on everything and, of course, you'd lose the insert... but if you wanted to use the mono channels as standalone pres/strips and send to another converter you definitely could. |
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 16,064 
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 10, 2021 9:40:31 GMT -6
Basically it’s an interface , mike pre, mixer and compressor.
For singer songwriter types, can leave mikes and keyboards hooked up, set the ssl as device in your daw settings, set your i/o, create your initial record set up, numbers of tracks and inputs sources snd save as template, if you add groups/ busses, you could also save OB inserts.
Be pretty straightforward once you got used to it.
For mixing add plugs and ob and away you go.
In Martin’s case, he could leave his Apollo hooked up on tbolt or get an octo card for UA plug ins for mixing.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 10, 2021 9:42:16 GMT -6
Basically it’s an interface , mike pre, mixer and compressor. For singer songwriter types, can leave mikes and keyboards hooked up, set the ssl as device in your daw settings, set your i/o, create your initial record set up, numbers of tracks and inputs sources snd save as template, if you add groups/ busses, you could also save OB inserts. Be pretty straightforward once you got used to it. For mixing add plugs and ob and away you go. In Martin’s case, he could leave his Apollo hooked up on tbolt or get an octo card for UA plug ins for mixing. If he left the Apollo how would that work. Set up as aggregate device? I'm always skeptical of that but there's no real reason why it shouldn't work, I've just never tried it. |
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 16,064
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 10, 2021 9:51:04 GMT -6
I think he was just concerned about running plug ins.
Aggregate device works but the two sets of converters would likely process at slightly different speeds which would be problematic.
|
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Dec 10, 2021 9:58:08 GMT -6
On the side... I don't get the skepticism on this device. To me I see a "large format desktop console" if that makes sense. This should be compared to things like the Mackie Onyx series and various ZED type desks. I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't WAY better. It compares in my mind a lot to the Zed Firewire board (R16?) that was made years ago. I doubt it's an active product anymore. I had forgotten it existed until I read this post for some reason. I think the big thing is the way it's being marketed as being a way to the have the authentic SSL desk sound in this small format. While that might be true to an extent, I think we all know this device isn't going to sound like a duality or 9000; so maybe the moans/groans are the result of the advertisements and marketing. I don't mean to be putting words into anyone's mouths, but at least I'm rolling my eyes slightly when I see some of the dealer's promos for this product. That's their job, of course, and we (if you view RGO posters on average) are likely not the intended market. |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Dec 10, 2021 10:26:13 GMT -6
I can see the IG posts stating "SSL CONSOLE" equipped going up exponentially now..... LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 10, 2021 10:59:47 GMT -6
On the side... I don't get the skepticism on this device. To me I see a "large format desktop console" if that makes sense. This should be compared to things like the Mackie Onyx series and various ZED type desks. I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't WAY better. It compares in my mind a lot to the Zed Firewire board (R16?) that was made years ago. I doubt it's an active product anymore. I had forgotten it existed until I read this post for some reason. I think the big thing is the way it's being marketed as being a way to the have the authentic SSL desk sound in this small format. While that might be true to an extent, I think we all know this device isn't going to sound like a duality or 9000; so maybe the moans/groans are the result of the advertisements and marketing. I don't mean to be putting words into anyone's mouths, but at least I'm rolling my eyes slightly when I see some of the dealer's promos for this product. That's their job, of course, and we (if you view RGO posters on average) are likely not the intended market. Oh for sure... the marketing for this thing is next level ridiculous. Haha. But if you just look at it for what it it's a pretty good price point. Just like the SiX was (which I tried hard to figure out a way to justify purchasing but never could). Here's how I look at it... this thing costs roughly the same as an Apollo x4. If you're starting from scratch, I think that's a no-brainer. Big SiX all the way. (marketing fluff aside) |
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 16,064
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 10, 2021 11:02:53 GMT -6
Different product but set up similar.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 10, 2021 11:29:03 GMT -6
Different product but set up similar. REMOVED COMMENT I saw an ad for the Tascam 12 or whatever and didn't realize what the video was for. But yeah, straight on. Big SiX more limited but in the same ballpark idea. |
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Dec 10, 2021 12:41:14 GMT -6
You can kind of do anything with USB as far as I understand it. If the software were written to accommodate it, a computer could could see two devices daisy-chained via USB the same way (through smart programming) MOTU's AVB allows a computer to see multiple devices daisy-chained via Ethernet cable, Dante allows a computer to see multiple devices via Ethernet cable, and the Apollo system allows a computer to see multiple devices daisy-chained via Thunderbolt cable. The specific sorts of data that travels through the connection doesn't REALLY matter as long as the connection method can keep up with the data throughput and everything else adheres to the connection method's standards. I think USB-C's data rates can pull it off if I remember correctly. Of course, I welcome the possibility that I've completely misunderstood how all this is happening. I'm just thinking about it from my not-too-terribly-recent programming past and what was possible way back when. The ability to daisy chain with other protocol isn't at question. Any networking option is of course allowing for that. And Thunderbolt has had it baked in since day 1. USB has not, although not regarding capacity or speed, but how things transfer. But even more importantly, how would you do without the ports? SSL doesn't say which level of USB this is, but audio companies are routinely building the interfaces with USB 2.0, even if it's a USB-C jack. I know USB 4 is supposed to be more similar to TB. I was suggesting a "Plus" version would come out down the road and that - if it did - it could make me cut my ties with my Apollo interface. I was imagining a possibility for a potential extra port on a completely not-based-in-reality product. ...but I think the MOTU AVB system has pieces that work as hubs. So - in this imagined reality full of products that don't exist and feature sets created specifically for me - maybe multiple BigSixes could plug into an SSL-branded hub. Do I think any of this WILL happen? No. |
|
|
|
Post by mattbroiler on Dec 10, 2021 18:39:53 GMT -6
I like the direction SSL is going with these mixers
I like that they added the two more channel strips plus 3 band eq and usb record capability to this new model. Plus a bunch more features no doubt. I'd say the new features add more than the $3000 price indicates - the small Six is still listing for $1800 new with no usb recording. I wonder if they will add that feature to the little one in a subsequent model. I'm sure they intend for people to use those new SSL (plugin?) controllers alongside these mixers.
the Six has been close to perfect for my own usage here; prior to getting it I had been wishing for something high quality up to 4 mono and 2 stereo inputs mixer in a compact size - must fit on top of a rack case with room to spare. Previously no one was making anything higher end in a smaller format mixer.
I don't want to switch recording interfaces so I won't be going for the big Six but maybe I'll look for a deal on another small one...some people will be selling to upgrade to the new version no doubt.
Just ruminating here it would have been really cool to have those two SSL pre/EQ racks to run into this little mixer if that sweatwater deal had actually transpired the other day . no wonder I never buy from those DORKS
|
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Dec 10, 2021 22:21:34 GMT -6
I think the big thing is the way it's being marketed as being a way to the have the authentic SSL desk sound in this small format. While that might be true to an extent, I think we all know this device isn't going to sound like a duality or 9000; so maybe the moans/groans are the result of the advertisements and marketing. If someone wants a baby 9000 or AWS you do what I did... get an X desk. Same price point and made in the UK not China it's basically an overgrown summing mixer with a kick ass center section. No preamps, cut down fisher price EQ, one knob fixed compressors... no interface. It's kinda like the jukebox sliced out of a 9000. It has carve but is mostly an excellent clean platform for mixing with outboard. I guess this feels like a "studio in a box" contraption with the built in interface. I don't see a way to submix channels? Like printing 3 mics on a guitar cab to one track? And only 4 preamps, with the fixed 3 band EQ at what... at least on paper seem like whacky points? High band is at 3.5kHz?? So maybe you use it as boxed solution with whatever routing the interface allows? Or it gets used as a summing mixer with a different interface feeding it... but 12 inputs (??) with those fixed parameters for processing? Dunno. I love the X desk. Works great for me. Totally different product though. |
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 10, 2021 22:58:43 GMT -6
I think the big thing is the way it's being marketed as being a way to the have the authentic SSL desk sound in this small format. While that might be true to an extent, I think we all know this device isn't going to sound like a duality or 9000; so maybe the moans/groans are the result of the advertisements and marketing. If someone wants a baby 9000 or AWS you do what I did... get an X desk. Same price point and made in the UK not China it's basically an overgrown summing mixer with a kick ass center section. No preamps, cut down fisher price EQ, one knob fixed compressors... no interface. It's kinda like the jukebox sliced out of a 9000. It has carve but is mostly an excellent clean platform for mixing with outboard. I guess this feels like a "studio in a box" contraption with the built in interface. I don't see a way to submix channels? Like printing 3 mics on a guitar cab to one track? And only 4 preamps, with the fixed 3 band EQ at what... at least on paper seem like whacky points? High band is at 3.5kHz?? So maybe you use it as boxed solution with whatever routing the interface allows? Or it gets used as a summing mixer with a different interface feeding it... but 12 inputs (??) with those fixed parameters for processing? Dunno. I love the X desk. Works great for me. Totally different product though. X-Desk is on my crave list. 3.5kHz for high band? I must have missed that. Odd to say the least. |
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Dec 10, 2021 23:38:58 GMT -6
Unless what I read was a misprint yes... fixed bands at 60Hz - 700 - 3.5k who knows maybe those points work great?
The X desk while a 20 input mixer is totally different. It's a back end mix only piece, line mixer no preamps. And you need an excellent comprehensive patchbay to make it fully functional. All connections are dsub and without a full set of bays there's an awful lot of function left on the table.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 10, 2021 23:51:42 GMT -6
Unless what I read was a misprint yes... fixed bands at 60Hz - 700 - 3.5k who knows maybe those points work great? The X desk while a 20 input mixer is totally different. It's a back end mix only piece, line mixer no preamps. And you need an excellent comprehensive patchbay to make it fully functional. All connections are dsub and without a full set of bays there's an awful lot of function left on the table. Yeah, I have no need for extra pres and have a pretty organized patchbay. I guess I never understood how you expanded the inputs on the X-Desk, I always thought it was just 8 mono. Did a bit of reading and I half understand. For me I kinda thought, "8 channels? That's no better than what I'm doing for summing now" without bothering to look more deeply. The sweet spot for me is 4 or 5 stereo, 2 mono, and 2 "just in case". So... 12-14 I suppose. |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Dec 11, 2021 4:52:15 GMT -6
I can see the IG posts stating "SSL CONSOLE" equipped going up exponentially now..... LOL
You may would love to see posting SB equipped? Could not resist.... 
|
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 11, 2021 7:12:30 GMT -6
Basically it’s an interface , mike pre, mixer and compressor. For singer songwriter types, can leave mikes and keyboards hooked up, set the ssl as device in your daw settings, set your i/o, create your initial record set up, numbers of tracks and inputs sources snd save as template, if you add groups/ busses, you could also save OB inserts. Be pretty straightforward once you got used to it. For mixing add plugs and ob and away you go. In Martin’s case, he could leave his Apollo hooked up on tbolt or get an octo card for UA plug ins for mixing. Yes, if it was a bit cheaper I would like one for my writing/ rehearsal room - it would be very useful paired with a laptop. I just might have to save up for one as it would be great for throwing down great sounding sketch tracks and recording rehearsals. |
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 16,064
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 11, 2021 7:46:36 GMT -6
Agreed, it would work great with the Aurora SD feature which basically allows for immediate recording on power up, flip two switches and go ! |
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Dec 11, 2021 8:26:29 GMT -6
If someone wants a baby 9000 or AWS you do what I did... get an X desk. Same price point and made in the UK not China it's basically an overgrown summing mixer with a kick ass center section. [...] Dunno. I love the X desk. Works great for me. Totally different product though. I agree. That's something more geared towards posters (and readers?) here. Their intended audience for the Big Six is likely going to be underqualified (meaning from a sales point, not credential or knowledge stance) for the X-Desk though. A Sweetwater or Guitarcenter employee would have to attach outboard processing, preamps, routing solutions, cabling, IO, and whatever else my I-Ran-Out-Of-Coffee-Brain is forgetting. At some point when the rep/sales guy is talking about DW Fearn preamps, Timmy Tucker, whose real estate mogul parents were dumb enough to let him have a credit card with a $5k limit, is going to realize he clearly doesn't have the money or possibly the knowledge to handle the whole setup. That's where Larry, the bigshot, top sales numbers in Flyover County, USA guy, is going to pivot to the latest and greatest Big Six. "You want SSL? Here's SSL. IT MAKES HITS.(TM)"
Jokes aside, I don't actually mean to imply that people who find the Big Six desirable to be a Timmy Tucker, or that there's anything wrong with Larry in Flyover County, USA; but yeah... I think most of us recognize the product for what it is. Building a setup around an X-Desk would mean a larger budget (it wouldn't "have" to be crazy expensive, considering how affordable a lot of 500-series SSL SiX or DBX modules are priced at, or even the live-oriented solutions in 19" formats), and it would imply a lot more choices and customization. These are great things for the more informed buyer -- You, I, or likely Larry for that matter, are going to know the preamps/eqs/comps they want/like (or none if we don't need them). We can also road-map ahead to other purchases to use with the X-Desk.
I think it's for the same reasons that this product exists. For a generation of people that have only recorded on interfaces, the Big Six is something that could represent the concepts of "Hardware," "Console," "Professional Brand," and so on, but not be a burden of choice when it comes to the actual purchase. The price is ____. Customers likely already have mics and what not, and if not, the attachment of those products won't be too crazy.
I know I keep gravitating towards sales in this post - it's because I think it's the easiest way to understand why SSL designed this product. I'm not saying it's bad or it won't be as good as X or Y, subjectively speaking.
I also don't think it makes anyone less of an engineer for wanting one; I mean, we all have to make concessions*... I'd rather have 19" versions of all my 500-series modules, because I know the potential in lower-noise performance and possibly better sound overall is there with dedicated power; but I appreciate having a single outlet (and portability) for all this gear so much that I've contemplated selling my Great River MP2NV, getting a bigger chassis, and going for a pair of Audioscape VP1290's just to make things more portable and get into the ballpark of what things sound like at present.
*= Boy, I hope I have the right word here.
//Rant over! I need to go out and find alternate forms of caffeine.
|
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Dec 11, 2021 9:56:43 GMT -6
I can see the IG posts stating "SSL CONSOLE" equipped going up exponentially now..... LOL
You may would love to see posting SB equipped? Could not resist....
I'm happy to see people putting ANY kind of hardware. It was a joke. Maybe lost in translation.... Once upon a time, saying you were "SSL Equipped" meant the you had a huge LFAC console, and were decidedly OTB. Now, you will see dozens (hundreds??) of small startup studios putting in a little mixer and trying to ride on the coattails of that legend - stating that they are an "SSL Equipped" studio. Trying to put them on par with a studio sporting a 9000K. Get it? No? That's OK.... |
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Dec 11, 2021 11:58:05 GMT -6
I don't get all the hate, this seems like a great product. This mixer would have been a godsend when I was first starting out. I agree that the EQ points seem a little wonky, but maybe they sound great? And if the compressor sounds/works good (which we don't know yet) who cares if it's "limited" by only one knob? My favorite compressor only has two! I am a little dissapointed that there's no direct outs or inserts on all channels. Seems like they could've added those on dsub. But that aside you get 4 pre amps, EQ, summing, monitor controller and interface in one unit. For a remote rig that sounds awesome. Seems like it would work great for a lot of project studios too.
Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Dec 11, 2021 13:16:20 GMT -6
You may would love to see posting SB equipped? Could not resist....
I'm happy to see people putting ANY kind of hardware. It was a joke. Maybe lost in translation.... Once upon a time, saying you were "SSL Equipped" meant the you had a huge LFAC console, and were decidedly OTB. Now, you will see dozens (hundreds??) of small startup studios putting in a little mixer and trying to ride on the coattails of that legend - stating that they are an "SSL Equipped" studio. Trying to put them on par with a studio sporting a 9000K. Get it? No? That's OK....
Can you see the simily I was joking too...
|
|
|
|
Post by lando on Dec 11, 2021 14:28:48 GMT -6
Isn’t this a super competitive price for what you get? 16 channels, AD-DA, four preamps, EQs (although limited), comps (also limited), faders and stuff for 3k? Sounds cheap to me. Some 2 channel EQs with no pre, or 2 channel pres with no eq costs more. Let’s just hope that the quality is professional!
|
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Dec 11, 2021 15:42:46 GMT -6
Yeah, I have no need for extra pres and have a pretty organized patchbay. I guess I never understood how you expanded the inputs on the X-Desk, I always thought it was just 8 mono. Did a bit of reading and I half understand. For me I kinda thought, "8 channels? That's no better than what I'm doing for summing now" without bothering to look more deeply. The sweet spot for me is 4 or 5 stereo, 2 mono, and 2 "just in case". So... 12-14 I suppose. Need a big patchbay for the X Desk to really function and get all 20 inputs. I'm at 192 patchbay points and honestly its barely enough, basically using all of it. I wired 56 points for the X Desk alone out of 80 total! And with everything on dsub including the center section its not like you can pick & choose without leaving a ton of meat on the bone... Not to be all "me" - But basic flow is the X desk is back end/mix only. Nothing goes through it while tracking. Do what I need in the DAW... Logic & UAD... pop in & out with a Motu 16A... and outboard pres/EQ/dynamics/FX? That's another 40 channels of gear that gets patched pre or post converters and/or hung off the desk. I don't do any ITB hardware inserts. Too limiting in this kinda rig. Aimed to kill on maximum flexibility. At the same time, while its hybrid it certainly leans towards analog. DAW as tape machine, outboard patched as needed. Downside? Not that recall is a struggle but its not as simple as one or two mouse clicks. Not a downside for me. But might be for some. To expound a little on what @enlav said? Yeah I think someone with a $4 or 5k budget for everything? Your not looking at the X desk. I probably have just as much, if not more money in cabling then I do in the X Desk itself. For me the X was just a chunk of a $12-15k re tooling. |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Dec 11, 2021 16:44:55 GMT -6
If someone wants a baby 9000 or AWS you do what I did... get an X desk. Same price point and made in the UK not China it's basically an overgrown summing mixer with a kick ass center section. [...] Dunno. I love the X desk. Works great for me. Totally different product though. ........ I don't actually mean to imply that people who find the Big Six desirable to be a Timmy Tucker, or that there's anything wrong with Larry in Flyover County, USA
Yeah .... you do  Only joking :-) |
|
