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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 11:50:41 GMT -6
Reading the Studio Snare thread, I’m wondering if any of our drummer or drum oriented members might weight in. I was gifted a 3-piece Sonor teardrop kit, the bass drum is a 14x20. An old drummer friend of mine used it as a jazz kit, but I wonder if there is any use for it as a studio drum set outside of the jazz idiom.
A 20” bass drum isn’t going to sound like Bonham… but maybe there is some tuning or dressing wisdom to be gleaned from you all that could give it a new purpose.
The other thing is, what (first) snare to match with this set?
I’m also open to the idea that it’s a one trick pony. Hopefully not, it’s all I have right now.
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Post by notneeson on Sept 18, 2021 15:25:48 GMT -6
I can’t imagine it wouldn’t be useful. Don’t know anything about Sonor of that era but the brand definitely has fans.
Do you own any snare drums currently? Ludwig Acrolite is a great bang for the buck drum. Beat out a whole rack of other snares on a recent session.
I’d also get a good 22” bass drum so you have options. I don’t find that the bass drum or the snare really need to be the same shell type as the toms per se. Like anything, it probably depends on the desired result.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 15:55:33 GMT -6
I can’t imagine it wouldn’t be useful. Don’t know anything about Sonor of that era but the brand definitely has fans. Do you own any snare drums currently? Ludwig Acrolite is a great bang for the buck drum. Beat out a whole rack of other snares on a recent session. I’d also get a good 22” bass drum so you have options. I don’t find that the bass drum or the snare really need to be the same shell type as the toms per se. Like anything, it probably depends on the desired result. What I do know is the teardrop era had super-thin plies, but I'm not sure what that implies for matching or much else. I don't have any snares yet. I will definitely give the Acrolite a listen. I think a small stable of them would be good eventually. Good call on the bass drum... The toms on these teardrops sound fantastic and I'll bet would sound great with a complimentary 22 or 24" bass drum. Thanks. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 18, 2021 18:40:30 GMT -6
What genre do you work in? I love my 20 inch kicks. Puuuunchy. My 24x18 is a beast and much harder to play if you’re not used to something that big. I’d take my 20 over the 24 if I had to sell all my kits and just keep one.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 19:39:33 GMT -6
What genre do you work in? I love my 20 inch kicks. Puuuunchy. My 24x18 is a beast and much harder to play if you’re not used to something that big. I’d take my 20 over the 24 if I had to sell all my kits and just keep one. Cool, this is what I was hoping to hear. One goal would be for this kit to work in a "singer/songwriter" context. I'm trying to get a nice, dry Keltner-y* thump out of it (may be the wrong guy for the job, but that's why I'm asking). Rock and pop-rock sound, more 70's maybe than anything. I have coated Ambassadors on mine right now, and it sounds cool, but it's very much in the Phil Spector zone at the moment. I'm curious how you're getting what you like out of your 20" kicks (resonant head on/off/hole, pillow/blanket inside/not, beater type, tuning, etc) I'm not a drummer, just a "drum owner", so feel free to elaborate. *"Keltner" may be overstating it. More broadly, I'm looking to get a tight, somewhat muffled, poppy kick. Probably tuned lower, not melodic. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 18, 2021 20:23:27 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 21:38:38 GMT -6
Rad—thank you. Looking forward to trying these out. |
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Post by notneeson on Sept 19, 2021 14:19:11 GMT -6
What genre do you work in? I love my 20 inch kicks. Puuuunchy. My 24x18 is a beast and much harder to play if you’re not used to something that big. I’d take my 20 over the 24 if I had to sell all my kits and just keep one. Cool, this is what I was hoping to hear. One goal would be for this kit to work in a "singer/songwriter" context. I'm trying to get a nice, dry Keltner-y* thump out of it (may be the wrong guy for the job, but that's why I'm asking). Rock and pop-rock sound, more 70's maybe than anything. I have coated Ambassadors on mine right now, and it sounds cool, but it's very much in the Phil Spector zone at the moment. I'm curious how you're getting what you like out of your 20" kicks (resonant head on/off/hole, pillow/blanket inside/not, beater type, tuning, etc) I'm not a drummer, just a "drum owner", so feel free to elaborate. *"Keltner" may be overstating it. More broadly, I'm looking to get a tight, somewhat muffled, poppy kick. Probably tuned lower, not melodic. My drum guru always says that those type of damped sounds are much easier to achieve, and less sensitive to shell type/quality versus more resonant “Jazz” style tuning and treatment. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 15:12:56 GMT -6
Cool, this is what I was hoping to hear. One goal would be for this kit to work in a "singer/songwriter" context. I'm trying to get a nice, dry Keltner-y* thump out of it (may be the wrong guy for the job, but that's why I'm asking). Rock and pop-rock sound, more 70's maybe than anything. I have coated Ambassadors on mine right now, and it sounds cool, but it's very much in the Phil Spector zone at the moment. I'm curious how you're getting what you like out of your 20" kicks (resonant head on/off/hole, pillow/blanket inside/not, beater type, tuning, etc) I'm not a drummer, just a "drum owner", so feel free to elaborate. *"Keltner" may be overstating it. More broadly, I'm looking to get a tight, somewhat muffled, poppy kick. Probably tuned lower, not melodic. My drum guru always says that those type of damped sounds are much easier to achieve, and less sensitive to shell type/quality versus more resonant “Jazz” style tuning and treatment. That's helpful to know. I'm feeling now like I should be able to get some good results. |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 19, 2021 21:24:36 GMT -6
I have yet to meet a Sonor kit that sounded anything less than excellent. They make great drums; even their entry level stuff is many, many steps above the competition. Anywho, I had a Sonor Phonic kit with a 20" kick that slayed. That's a way different vintage (late 70s/ early 80s) but the point is, a 20" kick can sound excellent, and it covers a LOT more stylistic ground than the standard 22" size.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 13:40:37 GMT -6
I have yet to meet a Sonor kit that sounded anything less than excellent. They make great drums; even their entry level stuff is many, many steps above the competition. Anywho, I had a Sonor Phonic kit with a 20" kick that slayed. That's a way different vintage (late 70s/ early 80s) but the point is, a 20" kick can sound excellent, and it covers a LOT more stylistic ground than the standard 22" size. This is all positive evidence for the Sonor's case. What was seeming like a real niche player might end up a cool studio set. Thanks everybody. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2021 22:59:49 GMT -6
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks again for all the advice—a drummer I am not. I received the DW pillow and cut a 6" hole in the resonant head. Even without changing the batter head yet (It's on back order), I'm encouraged it'll get there. I had doubts about the 14" depth, but it's actually all right. I quickly stuck two mics on it just to see what it sounded like at this point. I know the tuning can be improved among other things... care and feeding of drums is a learning experience, but it's better than I was expecting, especially for coated Ambassadors. If anything, this pillow might be a little too much, but that can all be adjusted.
I also can't play a bass drum for shit.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/user-294901650/sonor-bass-drum-muffle-test-ambs-soft-loud%3Fsi%3Dcce87a4293bd484caac06390a7c53df0
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 29, 2021 14:42:47 GMT -6
14 deep is the bonham / maple classic / vistalite ludwig rock and roll standard (albeit with 24 diameter). Tends to be a bit more controlled and slightly drier, if you're using minimal muffling. Also has a nice, playable feel. The fundamental will be up a bit higher, so you'll need to work a bit to get some chesty LF, but generally speaking those dimensions will sit in a track really nicely. With the pillow / hole in reso head, you'll get a nice tight, short-ish punch.
I actually prefer damping on the outside of the drum, unless the inside mic is sitting in a maze of weird standing waves and doing the 'basketball' thing (this is so seemingly random and in all my years i've yet to suss out why some drums exhibit this and others do not). But those DW pillows are groovy as far as internal damping goes. I just like the option of wide open, both heads damped, or choosing a particular head to damp, as that covers a LOT of stylistic ground.
Anywho, good get! Congrats and good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2021 15:35:55 GMT -6
14 deep is the bonham / maple classic / vistalite ludwig rock and roll standard (albeit with 24 diameter). Tends to be a bit more controlled and slightly drier, if you're using minimal muffling. Also has a nice, playable feel. The fundamental will be up a bit higher, so you'll need to work a bit to get some chesty LF, but generally speaking those dimensions will sit in a track really nicely. With the pillow / hole in reso head, you'll get a nice tight, short-ish punch. I actually prefer damping on the outside of the drum, unless the inside mic is sitting in a maze of weird standing waves and doing the 'basketball' thing (this is so seemingly random and in all my years i've yet to suss out why some drums exhibit this and others do not). But those DW pillows are groovy as far as internal damping goes. I just like the option of wide open, both heads damped, or choosing a particular head to damp, as that covers a LOT of stylistic ground. Anywho, good get! Congrats and good luck! Thanks, man. I'm also looking at other ways to damp, like the "Simon Philips" towel thing and ways to do it externally. I think there's probably no end to it. I'm also a fan of the no-hole thing, where an external muffle job could come in handy. Gotta experiment. Good news is that it's a useful kit and not like bringing a banjo to a metal show. I hear you on the basketball thing. I used to work with a drummer a long time ago who had 4 sets of which 2 had it bad and the other two not at all. Could never figure out why. |
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Post by sean on Sept 30, 2021 17:58:33 GMT -6
Sonor Teardrops are great kits, in typical German fashion overbuilt and rather genius in some of their designs.
Does yours have metal or wood hoops? 3 ply (earlier, extremely thin shells) or 6?
I think they are a lot like Gretsch drums sonically. Because they have heavy diecast hardware they don’t have a ton of shell resonance (lots of weight on them) so they sound cool tuned up higher for jazz (which they were popular for) but you can also try using something heavier/dampened like a EMAD kick drum pedal and get a low tension, quick “thwack” out of it.
Sonor Teardrop snares are pretty uncommon. It would probably pair well with a Gretsch wood snare if you went that route, or an Acrolite is always a solid, affordable choice
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2021 19:23:41 GMT -6
Sonor Teardrops are great kits, in typical German fashion overbuilt and rather genius in some of their designs. Does yours have metal or wood hoops? 3 ply (earlier, extremely thin shells) or 6? I think they are a lot like Gretsch drums sonically. Because they have heavy diecast hardware they don’t have a ton of shell resonance (lots of weight on them) so they sound cool tuned up higher for jazz (which they were popular for) but you can also try using something heavier/dampened like a EMAD kick drum pedal and get a low tension, quick “thwack” out of it. Sonor Teardrop snares are pretty uncommon. It would probably pair well with a Gretsch wood snare if you went that route, or an Acrolite is always a solid, affordable choice Mine has wood hoops and is the thin, 3-ply, and has definitely seen some action. I'm glad you mentioned the wood snare; Gretsch were always my favorite sounding drums. That and an Acrolite is a good starting place. I was looking at the EMAD and EMAD2 heads. I think I would try the single-ply clear first. I also am getting my hands on a Powerstroke 3 to try. Much thanks for the input. |
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Post by Guitar on Oct 7, 2021 6:52:33 GMT -6
Here's one of my favorite Sonor players, Ronald Shannon Jackson, going to town in 1983
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2021 9:49:09 GMT -6
Two bass players and a young Vernon Reid? That was mental.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 7, 2021 10:20:49 GMT -6
Two bass players and a young Vernon Reid? That was mental. Hell yeah! I am obsessed with this genre right now, "Free Funk." Free jazz turned into jazz fusion. It started with Ornette Coleman, and spun off with a bunch of people that played with him, then formed their own bands. Ronald Shannon Jackson being one. Vernon Reid shows up a lot. James Blood Ulmer and Jamaaladeen Tacuma are two other heavyweights in this genre. It's all I've been listening to for the past 4 months or so. The way those big Sonor drums sound in a band like this, open and huge, I am obsessed with the sound. I guess my Gretsch will have to be close enough for now. I was in a free jazz band about a decade ago and one of the drummers had a Sonor kit. Not a teardrop, but the slightly less desirable ones that came after that. Nonetheless, drums that can sing out over a loud and energized band. |
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