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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 8, 2021 13:10:19 GMT -6
What are your experiences? What headphones do you like for the job? How long did it take you to adjust? Do you still check mixes on speakers? Give me the run down on it all.
I’m anticipating moving to a new house soon which means new studio space. And I’m anticipating moving again in 3-4 years time. Mixing on headphones would really simplify my setup and make things easier when it comes to installing acoustic treatment.
Thanks in advance
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Post by tkaitkai on Sept 9, 2021 11:09:29 GMT -6
I do a ton of work on headphones. Not necessarily 100% of the mix, but a good chunk.
I use Sony 7506s — horribly bright on their own, but with Sonarworks, they actually sound pretty good, and it brings them really close to the sound of my speakers (where I also use SW). The trick is to force yourself to use the headphone correction in spite of how much of a shock it is at first. After a while, your ears adjust, and you realize it is indeed more accurate and helps way more than you thought.
I've been using the same Sonys with SW for 5 or 6 years, so at this point, I know them like the back of my hand, which is what allows me to actually work on them. If I were starting over, I'd probably choose different headphones.
Once you become acclimated to working on headphones, I honestly feel like it's not too different from working on speakers. Use reference mixes often and approach EQ, compression, etc. the same way you would normally. The only real issue I've run into is levels — headphones definitely bring out the small details more, so you might be tempted to settle for lower levels than you normally would (i.e. turning down vocals, using less distortion or reverb than you should, etc.). For that reason, I always double check on speakers (especially my car stereo).
IME, the usual complaints about headphones having inaccurate low end, weird stereo imaging, etc. are way overblown. Provided you have a decent pair of studio headphones you know well, you can absolutely make things sound good.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 9, 2021 11:33:48 GMT -6
I do a ton of work on headphones. Not necessarily 100% of the mix, but a good chunk. I use Sony 7506s — horribly bright on their own, but with Sonarworks, they actually sound pretty good, and it brings them really close to the sound of my speakers (where I also use SW). The trick is to force yourself to use the headphone correction in spite of how much of a shock it is at first. After a while, your ears adjust, and you realize it is indeed more accurate and helps way more than you thought. I've been using the same Sonys with SW for 5 or 6 years, so at this point, I know them like the back of my hand, which is what allows me to actually work on them. If I were starting over, I'd probably choose different headphones. Once you become acclimated to working on headphones, I honestly feel like it's not too different from working on speakers. Use reference mixes often and approach EQ, compression, etc. the same way you would normally. The only real issue I've run into is levels — headphones definitely bring out the small details more, so you might be tempted to settle for lower levels than you normally would (i.e. turning down vocals, using less distortion or reverb than you should, etc.). For that reason, I always double check on speakers (especially my car stereo). IME, the usual complaints about headphones having inaccurate low end, weird stereo imaging, etc. are way overblown. Provided you have a decent pair of studio headphones you know well, you can absolutely make things sound good. Thanks for the feedback. I forgot about sonar works. I’ll probably just buy that. I already have IK Arc but I like having the ability to dial in the amount of correction and limit the freq range of it.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 10, 2021 6:52:20 GMT -6
I do 95% of my mixing on headphones. Bose qc35 with noise cancellation on. Prior to the Bose, I was mainly between AKG Q701 and HD650s. I have 2 sets of Amphion bookshelves, PMCs, Event 3-ways, and Adams that go untouched.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 10, 2021 6:58:49 GMT -6
I do 95% of my mixing on headphones. Bose qc35 with noise cancellation on. Prior to the Bose, I was mainly between AKG Q701 and HD650s. I have 2 sets of Amphion bookshelves, PMCs, Event 3-ways, and Adams that go untouched. How long did it take you to transition to headphones? And why the Bose over the AKG or Sennheisers?
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 10, 2021 12:23:22 GMT -6
I do a fair bit on headphones. But still perfer to on monitors. I spend hours doing stuff on headphones though(editing). I use HD650s and AKG702's. Plus ATM50x as well here and there. I used to use the 7506's but my god just too damn bright.
Use either Grace m900 or m920 headphone amps or built in one on the Hapi, which I actually like more than the grace.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 10, 2021 19:28:44 GMT -6
I do 95% of my mixing on headphones. Bose qc35 with noise cancellation on. Prior to the Bose, I was mainly between AKG Q701 and HD650s. I have 2 sets of Amphion bookshelves, PMCs, Event 3-ways, and Adams that go untouched. How long did it take you to transition to headphones? And why the Bose over the AKG or Sennheisers? I listen to the Bose a ton during the day at my 9-5, so I just learned them well. The bass also translates worlds better for me on the Bose than the AKG/ Sennys.
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Post by srb on Sept 12, 2021 20:10:48 GMT -6
I'm monitors first here as well. I do check mixes on cans frequently, though. I never consider a mix "done" without them. My first choice is the ATHM50. I have the Sennheiser 650's as well. The Audeze LCD X are a fine reference as well. I check on the 7506's, too, in large part (and even as bright as they are), because I've used them in radio broadcast work for the last 30 years. I've heard so much music on them that they've become one of those things I feel compelled to check things on, since I'm so familiar with them. All these are utilized through the RND headphone amp (multed out on the patchbay from the RND 5088 master buss. I use the Lynx Hilo headphone outs often, too.
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Post by mcirish on Sept 23, 2021 15:36:33 GMT -6
I use Sonarworks on both my M50x and my speakers (LYD48). I prefer to mix on the speakers just because of how panning feels. I know I can buy Canopener and do the crossfeed to get it similar to speakers, but I tend to feel more confident with the speakers.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 23, 2021 15:41:54 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I'm going to have put some serious time into it and see if mixing on headphones is something I can learn. I think the payoff would be great. Coincidentally, I ran across this video today and really enjoyed Andrew Scheps take on it. I've heard him talk about mixing on headphones before but this was a little more detailed and candid.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 16, 2021 6:40:38 GMT -6
I do 95% of my mixing on headphones. Bose qc35 with noise cancellation on. Prior to the Bose, I was mainly between AKG Q701 and HD650s. I have 2 sets of Amphion bookshelves, PMCs, Event 3-ways, and Adams that go untouched. Those are the 35 series ? Did you try 45 and dislike or not see the value ?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 16, 2021 8:46:21 GMT -6
I do 95% of my mixing on headphones. Bose qc35 with noise cancellation on. Prior to the Bose, I was mainly between AKG Q701 and HD650s. I have 2 sets of Amphion bookshelves, PMCs, Event 3-ways, and Adams that go untouched. Those are the 35 series ? Did you try 45 and dislike or not see the value ? 45 didn’t exist when I bought the 35s. I actually bought the 35s for sound cancellation in my old cube at the day job. They had an A/C system that cooled the server room which was super loud an annoying, so I bought the Bose. The more I listened at the day job, the more I liked them. Tried them on a mix on day and was sold. My studio partner actually just grabbed a set too.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 16, 2021 8:52:08 GMT -6
Both of the 35 ?
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Post by ragan on Oct 16, 2021 11:03:21 GMT -6
Since starting this new job, Bluetooth cans have become a huge part of my life. I've been trying a bunch. The winner so far is the Sennheiser HD450BT. I can't deal with sizzly headphone highs and the 450s sound nice and flat. I also like the button layout and pairing behavior. The only problem is they start feeling too tight after an hour or two. I've also tried the (pricier) Senn PXC 550-II, which are much more comfortable but I hate the top end, everything sounds sibilant. The Sony WH-CH510 and Sony WH-CH710N both sound ok, but they're not that comfortable. The Audio Technica ATH-SR30BT sound terrible to me.
So I'm looking for something to sound as good as the Senn 450s but be more comfortable. I've got the Beyerdynamic Lagoon ANC Traveller and the Status Flagship ANC showing up this weekend.
And yes, I am going a bit crazy with this.
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Post by yewtreemagic on Oct 16, 2021 17:38:09 GMT -6
I too do a lot of my mixing under headphones (currently AKG K712 Pro for the more extended bass end, but I still have the flatter Sennheiser HD650's). Like others here I also use Sonarworks as my final monitoring EQ, both for my small loudspeakers (ATC SCM10's) to tweak their response after the acoustic treatment has done most of the work, and for both headphones (which end up sounding quite close to the loudspeakers as a result). I always double check my mixes on loudspeakers after doing the really detailed stuff under headphones, mostly for bass end balance and panning. I did experiment with crossfeed plug-ins with my phones a few years ago, to simulate the loudspeaker listening experience, but have ended up abandoning them and instead pulling in my more extreme pan positions a little more (90% instead of 100% for instance), so that my mixes sound good (albeit slightly different) through both loudspeakers and headphones. After all, so many people now listen to music on phones or earbuds that it makes sense to cater for them both Martin
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Post by svart on Oct 19, 2021 13:17:09 GMT -6
I just reworked a mix from the ground up on headphones. I took a mix I worked on recently that I felt was "close" but ultimately not as good as I know I'm capable of.
As you all know, when you work on something for a while, you lose the big picture as well as the small details. That's where I was in the end.
So for new perspective, I decided to do it all in headphones. I had purchased some Monoprice Planar M570 headphones a while back and I used them here and there for a while but can't say that I gave them a thorough testing.
I gotta say, the mix is better than it ever had been before. The planars were pretty honest in the midrange and top end, although I think I got used to the strident stuff in my mix too quickly because I know I heard it to start but then didn't notice it again until I listened here at work. The low end was a little bit boomy after the mix. The M570 seem to have a good low end, but I think its sloped slightly. I didn't feel like anything was "missing" but the low end is a few dB heavier on other systems.
I got mine open box for a lot less than the 300$ retail price and I'm pretty happy with them as mixing headphones so far. I think I might use them instead of NS10s for mix checks from now on.
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Post by jhsmastering on Oct 19, 2021 18:20:28 GMT -6
I'm about 90% on headphones as well, using the Slate VSX headphone hardware/software. I do have a pair of Tyler Acoustics MM5x's, but they're in an untreated room, and global supply shortages have lengthened the delay in getting the room treated with GIK Acoustics. Like everyone has mentioned here, it's all about how well you know your monitoring, whether speakers or cans.
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Post by notneeson on Oct 26, 2021 22:25:41 GMT -6
Have been leaning on Senn HD650s and an RND headphone amp since the pandemic started.
They get me really close but I still like to hear things in other environments, including the Focals at the studio and in the car.
I do think the pitfalls are that you can’t really judge the bottom octave that reliably (mastering can sort me out here, it’s hard even in a good many control rooms I have worked in) and the center channel balance can be a little off since phantom center isn’t phantomy with cans on. I have that Can Opener plugin, but I don’t wind up using it too much.
Sometimes verbs that fit like a glove with cans on don’t work as well for me in the real world. That happened today.
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Post by yewtreemagic on Oct 27, 2021 8:33:06 GMT -6
Sometimes verbs that fit like a glove with cans on don’t work as well for me in the real world. That happened today. Yeah, I know what you mean - when you listen on cans your only hear your chosen reverb, but the sound changes when your studio acoustic is added when listening through loudspeakers (unless your studio is as dry as a bone ) Martin
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Post by marlem on Nov 30, 2021 22:21:59 GMT -6
Sennheiser HD600's do the trick for me, and switch over to AT ATH50's to compare.
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Post by Ward on Dec 1, 2021 6:35:46 GMT -6
Sometimes verbs that fit like a glove with cans on don’t work as well for me in the real world. That happened today. Yeah, I know what you mean - when you listen on cans your only hear your chosen reverb, but the sound changes when your studio acoustic is added when listening through loudspeakers (unless your studio is as dry as a bone ) Martin A properly designed and treated studio control room will not destroy the sound of your mixes but present a neutral environment so that you can hear everything you're doing and everything in the mix. A properly designed and treated control room will not have standing waves or weird things bouncing around. Good absorption, bass trapping, and diffusion/defracting will neutralize any anomalies that create havoc, without having to resort to headphones. And good design/treatment doesn't have to mean a second or third mortgage.
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Post by yewtreemagic on Dec 1, 2021 8:24:18 GMT -6
I totally agree with that - the more neutral your studio acoustics, the more detail you'll hear in your mixes. Having said that, decisions on the amount and type of reverb and so on can be notoriously tricky for many people with some musical genres - it's best to tweak them so they sound good both under headphones and also with the neutral supporting acoustics of the studio added. This tends to be easier for more traditional genres, including rock, country and classical, that mimic real-life spaces, but when you venture into more experimental electronica, totally dry sounds, and hard-panned sources, compromises sometimes have to be made
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