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Post by bossanova on Aug 18, 2021 18:14:40 GMT -6
As I understand it, C414s are the go-to if you’re looking for a contrast to the Neumann sound in a workhorse mic. But as I also understand it, the EB variants are unobtanium, the subsequent iterations are of varying levels of quality (I still don’t have them all straight), and the current models are the weakest of the bunch?
I also know there’s a number of clones out there, but from reading here it looks like most of them (3U, Warm, AA) are based on modified, edge-terminated k67 capsules rather than the C12/414 design.
Are there options that “aren’t” Tube/C12 clones? I.e., a solid state C414 design with the patterns and capsule design that’s based on the older models? Or is it a deal where the current C414 is already a $1k mic and there’s not a great market for a clone in that price point before you advance into a bracket where someone is looking at a boutique mic or a Neumann TLM, or a C12 clone for the same money?
Thank you for the help in advance. There are so many 414 models that it’s hard to figure out if any of the post Brass ones are worth it.
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Post by superwack on Aug 18, 2021 18:44:20 GMT -6
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Post by chessparov on Aug 18, 2021 18:44:53 GMT -6
FWIW for only around $500, the SE T2 seems/sounds like a nice all rounder.
The AT4050 is another fine mic IMHO.
I think the Heiserman Type 19 is another smart choice. Has their wonderful K47 type capsule.
Chris
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 18, 2021 18:49:51 GMT -6
As I understand it, C414s are the go-to if you’re looking for a contrast to the Neumann sound in a workhorse mic. But as I also understand it, the EB variants are unobtanium, the subsequent iterations are of varying levels of quality (I still don’t have them all straight), and the current models are the weakest of the bunch? I also know there’s a number of clones out there, but from reading here it looks like most of them (3U, Warm, AA) are based on modified, edge-terminated k67 capsules rather than the C12/414 design. Are there options that “aren’t” Tube/C12 clones? I.e., a solid state C414 design with the patterns and capsule design that’s based on the older models? Or is it a deal where the current C414 is already a $1k mic and there’s not a great market for a clone in that price point before you advance into a bracket where someone is looking at a boutique mic or a Neumann TLM, or a C12 clone for the same money? Thank you for the help in advance. There are so many 414 models that it’s hard to figure out if any of the post Brass ones are worth it. If you’re after the family of sounds associated with a 414, you might look to Austrian Audio or Lewitt Mics. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 18, 2021 20:48:01 GMT -6
I’d look at the Heisermann type 19 too or the Gefell umt70.
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Post by Ward on Aug 18, 2021 20:58:14 GMT -6
Last two replies are solid. Austrian Audio and Heiserman Type 19 |
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Post by bossanova on Aug 18, 2021 21:00:48 GMT -6
As I understand it, C414s are the go-to if you’re looking for a contrast to the Neumann sound in a workhorse mic. But as I also understand it, the EB variants are unobtanium, the subsequent iterations are of varying levels of quality (I still don’t have them all straight), and the current models are the weakest of the bunch? I also know there’s a number of clones out there, but from reading here it looks like most of them (3U, Warm, AA) are based on modified, edge-terminated k67 capsules rather than the C12/414 design. Are there options that “aren’t” Tube/C12 clones? I.e., a solid state C414 design with the patterns and capsule design that’s based on the older models? Or is it a deal where the current C414 is already a $1k mic and there’s not a great market for a clone in that price point before you advance into a bracket where someone is looking at a boutique mic or a Neumann TLM, or a C12 clone for the same money? Thank you for the help in advance. There are so many 414 models that it’s hard to figure out if any of the post Brass ones are worth it. If you’re after the family of sounds associated with a 414, you might look to Austrian Audio or Lewitt Mics. Wow...for the same money as a new 414 (less for the AuAudio 18) that 818 is a new design based on vintage AKG from AKG alumni. That’s impressive. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 18, 2021 22:30:41 GMT -6
ata4050
Se4400
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Post by chessparov on Aug 19, 2021 12:48:44 GMT -6
Austrian Audio's are on the bright side of 414-ish.
Can be problematic on some sibilant singers.
Chris
P.S. I hope Eric H, does his own 414 brass capsule style some day!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 19, 2021 14:02:07 GMT -6
The best affordable 414 alternative would in all honesty be a used 414!
Other than the Gefell and Heisermann and maybe Lewitt and Australian Audio you are getting a very cheap capsule.
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Post by svart on Aug 19, 2021 14:47:01 GMT -6
Lewitt.
Some of their people came from AKG so it's no surprise that their mics look like 414s..
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Post by phdamage on Aug 19, 2021 18:21:29 GMT -6
As the owner of a bunch of AT4050s, my 414B ULS pair kills them. The 4050 sounds super thin by comparison.
Curious about those SE T2/4400 as I thought those budget X1Ds they made had a similar titanium capsule and they are great mics - sad they were discontinued.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 19, 2021 21:54:05 GMT -6
Any comparison clips?
Thanks,Chris
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 19, 2021 22:05:10 GMT -6
I've got a brass eb (actually a pair but one needs a replacement fet), which i adore, and you're right that the subsequent 414s aren't as good. But, the current-ish eb models are pretty solid. The TLS are pretty bad, IMO. And there was another that was like "XL" or something similar that i thought was ok.
If I were on market for a good, all purpose solid state LDC workhorse, I'd be reaching for a Neumann TLM 170 (the best mic they still make, if you ask me). After that, probably a MTG UMT70S.
Another very cool 'sleeper' option is the Ehrlund stuff. I have a pair of those, and they are pretty darn excellent. But, they don't really work like the mics you're used to, so you gotta learn them. In short, they have a shockingly more extended bottom end (seriously....it's kinda crazy) and they do this thing where they always sound MUCH 'closer" to the source. Not necessarily because they don't pick up ambience, but more because they're super detailed in a unique way. Anywho, worth a listen.
EDIT: oh yeah, the ULS is cool! Still prefer the EB but the ULS is a pretty close second.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 19, 2021 22:24:48 GMT -6
We had an artist bring the Peluso for use on the radio show I work, and it sounded good. Banjo fiddle and 2 vcls.
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Post by svart on Aug 20, 2021 7:16:50 GMT -6
I know you also said you wanted patterns, but way back in the day when I was looking for my first pair of *real* workhorse LDCs I ended up getting a pair of Gefell M930's instead of the 414's I was looking at. They blew the 414's out of the water, but they're cardioid only. Honestly I think patterns are a little overrated though.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 21, 2021 9:18:24 GMT -6
Lewitt all day. They actually sound like 414's with an improved low end, and they're affordable.
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Post by sean on Aug 21, 2021 9:39:11 GMT -6
What Lewitt would you recommend for something like toms? Multi-pattern with pads. I have a pair of Jim Williams modified ones that I love but I worry they might get bashed one day
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 21, 2021 12:52:10 GMT -6
Austrian Audio's are on the bright side of 414-ish. Can be problematic on some sibilant singers. Chris P.S. I hope Eric H, does his own 414 brass capsule style some day! On the bright side of 414ish? A brighter version of a mic that (in its modern form) is already way too bright?
EEWwwww.....
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Post by robschnapf on Aug 21, 2021 15:33:35 GMT -6
I think an old 414ULS is an underrated mic.
Even scoffed at.
But they are very useful and workman like.
Also the Sony C48s are great.
They used to be cheap but I think they’ve gone up in price.
I think I said this in another post but I got a Heiserman brass C12 capsule and had Eric install it into a ULS for me.
It’s very very good.
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Post by ericn on Aug 21, 2021 16:02:45 GMT -6
I think an old 414ULS is an underrated mic. Even scoffed at. But they are very useful and workman like. Also the Sony C48s are great. They used to be cheap but I think they’ve gone up in price. I think I said this in another post but I got a Heiserman brass C12 capsule and had Eric install it into a ULS for me. It’s very very good. The Sony market is Funny 48’s are worth more than 38 Fets again. The one Mic I lost in IKE was a EB with a brass capsule modded by Jim Williams, I miss it as much as the 68 Les Paul and the Alembic California Special that got destroyed as well. |
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Post by robschnapf on Aug 21, 2021 21:30:29 GMT -6
C48s were under $1000 forever.
When did they get so expensive?
Eric did my buddys 414EB and my ULS at the same time. The ULS was higher output and lower noise then my buddys EB fir whatever reason.
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Post by ericn on Aug 21, 2021 22:01:23 GMT -6
C48s were under $1000 forever. When did they get so expensive? Eric did my buddys 414EB and my ULS at the same time. The ULS was higher output and lower noise then my buddys EB fir whatever reason. Rob from my days of being a gearpimp that tracks right, AKG under Harmon was all about lowering noise. The EB I had was one of those stupid, stupid deals. I found it at A&P Pawn in Houston a block from what was then the big GC in Houston, the guys at GC had refused to take it on trade, go figure, because it was modded and nobody would touch it, I pulled out $450 cash and walked out with a mic. Those of us over say 45 ( I’m not googling you to make sure you fit but from what I have heard of your work and what you have posted I’ll assume your one of us😃) have more respect for the younger amongst us put the 414 in a sort of middle ground between the holy grail mics and the rest. We came up in a world where we would walk in and find either an 87 or a 414 was the studios top mic, the 101 47 clones didn’t exist. As much as Harmon tried to suck the soul out of it we still made it work. Now if Sony would have put 1/64 the effort they put into any of their consumer marketing ( okay my first 2 C535’s cost me $175 ea because they didn’t know what they were doing ) the 48 would be on everybody’s radar. |
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Post by ericn on Aug 21, 2021 22:07:47 GMT -6
C48s were under $1000 forever. When did they get so expensive? Eric did my buddys 414EB and my ULS at the same time. The ULS was higher output and lower noise then my buddys EB fir whatever reason. I should have addressed this, I’m putting on my pimp hat but damn it Rob with your credits you just raised the price a $100!😀 Let’s call it the TapeOp mix magazine effect, every fing time somebody admits it’s a great mic that they used it on something that at least went gold the price goes up. The other thing is 48 capsules are fragile and nobody is making clones. 414’s no matter the vintage we’re built for abuse. It’s why any SR provider probably has 20! |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 21, 2021 23:36:41 GMT -6
Austrian Audio's are on the bright side of 414-ish. Can be problematic on some sibilant singers. Chris P.S. I hope Eric H, does his own 414 brass capsule style some day! On the bright side of 414ish? A brighter version of a mic that (in its modern form) is already way too bright?
EEWwwww.....
John, would you call the B-ULS pretty neutral? I thought the Austrian Audio's were somewhat brighter. Those and the non-tube LDC Lewitt's, you'd have to some de-essing on me-for example. Chris P.S. Don't laugh, but I like the Warm WA-14 too. But still defer to the wiser gathered here.  Chris |
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