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Post by mitchkricun on Jul 13, 2021 6:34:08 GMT -6
There’s a company named Fervor Records that wants some of my songs for licensing. Here’s the deal they’re offering.
$500 up front per song
They will own the Masters
50/50 split on publishing
They get all the Sync revenue
No expiration
I do know from the person who recommended me to them, that they do get some legit placements, and this is apparently their standard deal. I’d like to know if this is reasonable or a complete rip off.
Any advice is much appreciated!
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 13, 2021 8:11:25 GMT -6
Owning the masters with no expiration strikes me as kinda fishy. I’m assuming these are songs you’ve written for artistic purposes, and recorded at your own expense? (As opposed to works for hire whose productions were paid for by this label)
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Post by drbill on Jul 13, 2021 10:11:04 GMT -6
When you say 50/50 split on publishing I presume that you mean they take all the publishing side, and you get the writers?
That deal is not unusual. Usually comes in the form of "in perpetuity" music library deals. Unfortunately at this point in time, I no longer take those deals. Certainly not for $500. It is essentially a buy out of everything - leaving you with only writers royalties - and writers royalties are in decline with streaming. The life and earning potential of a song is far greater than $500 IMO.
I would pass. But good luck with whatever you choose!! Cheers, bp
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Post by mitchkricun on Jul 13, 2021 12:30:33 GMT -6
Owning the masters with no expiration strikes me as kinda fishy. I’m assuming these are songs you’ve written for artistic purposes, and recorded at your own expense? (As opposed to works for hire whose productions were paid for by this label) That’s correct. Most of the songs are almost 20 yrs old though. I’m considering saying yes to the ones I don’t care that much about. Truth is, I have pretty much zero connections in the Sync world, and not feeling like there’s much chance on these songs generating any income without an “in”. |
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Post by mitchkricun on Jul 13, 2021 12:53:29 GMT -6
When you say 50/50 split on publishing I presume that you mean they take all the publishing side, and you get the writers? That deal is not unusual. Usually comes in the form of "in perpetuity" music library deals. Unfortunately at this point in time, I no longer take those deals. Certainly not for $500. It is essentially a buy out of everything - leaving you with only writers royalties - and writers royalties are in decline with streaming. The life and earning potential of a song is far greater than $500 IMO. I would pass. But good luck with whatever you choose!! Cheers, bp Thanks Dr Bill. I hear everything you said. I was really hoping you’d chime in, so thank you. I agree with everything you and others have said. I know it’s not a good deal, but it’s good to hear that it’s not unusual. Sorta… Part of me is thinking it could be a “foot in the door” to let them have 3 of the 7 they want to acquire and see how it goes. Then it might be easier to approach other agencies if I have a few placements? |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 13, 2021 12:55:41 GMT -6
Here’s the tough real world question you have to ask, is a bad (or sub-optimal) deal better than no deal at all? 50% of something is better than 100% or nothing.
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Post by drbill on Jul 13, 2021 14:18:09 GMT -6
Here’s the tough real world question you have to ask, is a bad (or sub-optimal) deal better than no deal at all? 50% of something is better than 100% or nothing. Unfortunately, the deal is not REALLY 50% of "something". In terms of all the different licensing, royalties, back end, etc. monies that any piece of music might make, it's really more like 3-5% of "something". Again, if Mitch needs the $500 and is willing to lay down the "artist" aspect of writing music, maybe the deal is "OK". (At best, certainly not great). If he wants to pursue the artist side of things, taking the $500 up front is NOT a good deal IMO. Understanding royalty streams, different licensing structures and long term ownership is essential in making good decisions on these kinds of deals. Frustrated and new writers / artists are currently selling their souls to the devil just to get some kind of "professional acknowledgement", which might be cool short term, but will preclude them from ever having a career long term - cause they quite literally gave it all away. That's my $0.02 - which is about 6 months of royalties from Amazon or Netflix if they land you a placement on either platform. (I've got thousands of $0.01 royalties from both every quarter. Barely enough to have a semi-decent meal for two.) PS - if you do decide to go for this deal - ask them for the $500 buyout, but ask them to pay for the musicians that performed on the recording on top of the $500. This actually could be far more than the $500 buyout price. Some legit publishers / music libraries will actually do this. AND - it is the fair thing to do. Knowing that, $500 doesn't go far for 5 musicians sitting in a studio for 2 days. Probably not even minimum wage. If they say they won't - tell them that you paid the musicians far more than the $500 they are offering you and see what their response is. Any company worth their salt will ask you for musician releases showing that they have all been fairly compensated for their efforts. If the company does not ask, they do not know what they are doing. If they DO ask you to indemnify, then you need to fairly compensate musicians for their efforts.... PPS - Which brings about another gotcha. One that you should be aware of, and should search your soul over...... In every one of these types of deals, YOU WILL be asked to indemnify the publisher, the rights holder, the record company (probably the same), and any clients downstream (production companies), and anyone broadcasting said shows from any and all copyright claims that might ever pop up. That means that if there is ever a copyright dispute or lawsuit - that YOU WILL FOOT ALL LEGAL BILLS FOR EVERYONE UPSTREAM. That's a difficult pill to swallow - especially for $500. If they will not pay you more than $500 - ask them to drop the indemnification clause from the contract. (They almost certainly will not - but it's leverage for you.) If the music is throw away nondescript background music for TV, the $500 buyout could be OK. It's its handcrafted music with LIVE musicians, it's honestly an insult IMO. Music with musicians is EXPENSIVE to make in 2021. Everybody's got to eat. Musicians included. Good luck!! |
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Post by drbill on Jul 13, 2021 14:32:45 GMT -6
Part of me is thinking it could be a “foot in the door” to let them have 3 of the 7 they want to acquire and see how it goes. Then it might be easier to approach other agencies if I have a few placements? Don't think that way. It is not a foot in the door. In terms of approaching others, they don't care about any placements you may or may not have had. They listen to the MUSIC and judge accordingly. If it's good and if they need something like what you have - you're in. If they don't need it currently, or it's not at professional standards - then you're out. They don't care about your history. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 13, 2021 14:37:37 GMT -6
Part of me is thinking it could be a “foot in the door” to let them have 3 of the 7 they want to acquire and see how it goes. Then it might be easier to approach other agencies if I have a few placements? Don't think that way. It is not a foot in the door. In terms of approaching others, they don't care about any placements you may or may not have had. They listen to the MUSIC and judge accordingly. If it's good and if they need something like what you have - you're in. If they don't need it currently, or it's not at professional standards - then you're out. They don't care about your history. Hey Bill, I work with a duo who write music that's fairly tailored towards sync placements. Not background music, but would work great for shows. Any suggestions where they should start looking if they want placements? |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 13, 2021 14:53:40 GMT -6
Here’s the tough real world question you have to ask, is a bad (or sub-optimal) deal better than no deal at all? 50% of something is better than 100% or nothing. Unfortunately, the deal is not REALLY 50% of "something". In terms of all the different licensing, royalties, back end, etc. monies that any piece of music might make, it's really more like 3-5% of "something". Again, if Mitch needs the $500 and is willing to lay down the "artist" aspect of writing music, maybe the deal is "OK". (At best, certainly not great). If he wants to pursue the artist side of things, taking the $500 up front is NOT a good deal IMO. Understanding royalty streams, different licensing structures and long term ownership is essential in making good decisions on these kinds of deals. Frustrated and new writers / artists are currently selling their souls to the devil just to get some kind of "professional acknowledgement", which might be cool short term, but will preclude them from ever having a career long term - cause they quite literally gave it all away. That's my $0.02 - which is about 6 months of royalties from Amazon or Netflix if they land you a placement on either platform. (I've got thousands of $0.01 royalties from both every quarter. Barely enough to have a semi-decent meal for two.) PS - if you do decide to go for this deal - ask them for the $500 buyout, but ask them to pay for the musicians that performed on the recording on top of the $500. This actually could be far more than the $500 buyout price. Some legit publishers / music libraries will actually do this. AND - it is the fair thing to do. Knowing that, $500 doesn't go far for 5 musicians sitting in a studio for 2 days. Probably not even minimum wage. If they say they won't - tell them that you paid the musicians far more than the $500 they are offering you and see what their response is. Any company worth their salt will ask you for musician releases showing that they have all been fairly compensated for their efforts. If the company does not ask, they do not know what they are doing. If they DO ask you to indemnify, then you need to fairly compensate musicians for their efforts.... PPS - Which brings about another gotcha. One that you should be aware of, and should search your soul over...... In every one of these types of deals, YOU WILL be asked to indemnify the publisher, the rights holder, the record company (probably the same), and any clients downstream (production companies), and anyone broadcasting said shows from any and all copyright claims that might ever pop up. That means that if there is ever a copyright dispute or lawsuit - that YOU WILL FOOT ALL LEGAL BILLS FOR EVERYONE UPSTREAM. That's a difficult pill to swallow - especially for $500. If they will not pay you more than $500 - ask them to drop the indemnification clause from the contract. (They almost certainly will not - but it's leverage for you.) If the music is throw away nondescript background music for TV, the $500 buyout could be OK. It's its handcrafted music with LIVE musicians, it's honestly an insult IMO. Music with musicians is EXPENSIVE to make in 2021. Everybody's got to eat. Musicians included. Good luck!! Totally agree, but what I meant was that if you have 20 year old music lying around that’s not being monetized in any way, and there’s not much artistic attachment then getting “50%” might be an ok deal for you. As opposed to full ownership that pays nothing. But you’re point is well taken. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 13, 2021 15:06:20 GMT -6
Unfortunately, the deal is not REALLY 50% of "something". In terms of all the different licensing, royalties, back end, etc. monies that any piece of music might make, it's really more like 3-5% of "something". Again, if Mitch needs the $500 and is willing to lay down the "artist" aspect of writing music, maybe the deal is "OK". (At best, certainly not great). If he wants to pursue the artist side of things, taking the $500 up front is NOT a good deal IMO. Understanding royalty streams, different licensing structures and long term ownership is essential in making good decisions on these kinds of deals. Frustrated and new writers / artists are currently selling their souls to the devil just to get some kind of "professional acknowledgement", which might be cool short term, but will preclude them from ever having a career long term - cause they quite literally gave it all away. That's my $0.02 - which is about 6 months of royalties from Amazon or Netflix if they land you a placement on either platform. (I've got thousands of $0.01 royalties from both every quarter. Barely enough to have a semi-decent meal for two.) PS - if you do decide to go for this deal - ask them for the $500 buyout, but ask them to pay for the musicians that performed on the recording on top of the $500. This actually could be far more than the $500 buyout price. Some legit publishers / music libraries will actually do this. AND - it is the fair thing to do. Knowing that, $500 doesn't go far for 5 musicians sitting in a studio for 2 days. Probably not even minimum wage. If they say they won't - tell them that you paid the musicians far more than the $500 they are offering you and see what their response is. Any company worth their salt will ask you for musician releases showing that they have all been fairly compensated for their efforts. If the company does not ask, they do not know what they are doing. If they DO ask you to indemnify, then you need to fairly compensate musicians for their efforts.... PPS - Which brings about another gotcha. One that you should be aware of, and should search your soul over...... In every one of these types of deals, YOU WILL be asked to indemnify the publisher, the rights holder, the record company (probably the same), and any clients downstream (production companies), and anyone broadcasting said shows from any and all copyright claims that might ever pop up. That means that if there is ever a copyright dispute or lawsuit - that YOU WILL FOOT ALL LEGAL BILLS FOR EVERYONE UPSTREAM. That's a difficult pill to swallow - especially for $500. If they will not pay you more than $500 - ask them to drop the indemnification clause from the contract. (They almost certainly will not - but it's leverage for you.) If the music is throw away nondescript background music for TV, the $500 buyout could be OK. It's its handcrafted music with LIVE musicians, it's honestly an insult IMO. Music with musicians is EXPENSIVE to make in 2021. Everybody's got to eat. Musicians included. Good luck!! Totally agree, but what I meant was that if you have 20 year old music lying around that’s not being monetized in any way, and there’s not much artistic attachment then getting “50%” might be an ok deal for you. As opposed to full ownership that pays nothing. But you’re point is well taken. I gotcha. And again, if Mitch needs or wants the $500, then go for it. But do not be misled - it's nowhere near a 50% deal. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 13, 2021 15:13:26 GMT -6
Don't think that way. It is not a foot in the door. In terms of approaching others, they don't care about any placements you may or may not have had. They listen to the MUSIC and judge accordingly. If it's good and if they need something like what you have - you're in. If they don't need it currently, or it's not at professional standards - then you're out. They don't care about your history. Hey Bill, I work with a duo who write music that's fairly tailored towards sync placements. Not background music, but would work great for shows. Any suggestions where they should start looking if they want placements? Are they pursuing a "music for sync" career, or an "recording artist" career, while maybe trying to find some syncs? If the latter, then their best career move would be to spike their career and get the best notoriety they can. If they do that - the sync opportunities will find them. If the former, then perhaps looking towards Crucial. Again, it all boils down into what people need when they need it and when you happen to contact them. It's a moving target. You need their music in the hands of the music supervisors who are supervising the types of shows that their music would be good for. Another way is to analyze the end credit rolls to see if the music supervisor(s) are listed. IMDb.com is another good resource to find out who the sups are. This is a HARD WORK game. Just throwing your stuff out there will not get you anywhere. At this point, there's just TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (sorry, need another thousand OOO's) much music hitting the streets every day. For anyone looking to find the path to syncs - I would steer you AWAY, far, FAR AWAY from those guys selling classes for $$$. They are selling paradigms that are 10-20 years old that don't work as well in 2021, and are selling ideas that you can easily find on your own if you just put a bit of effort in. One good resource is : musiclibraryreport.com. You can access it for free initially, and then, if you find it worthwhile - you can sign up as a member for pretty minimal money. Just to be upfront - it's more focused towards composers than artists / songwriters. If you're an artist / songwriter - your best bet is to become popular - even if in a niche scene. Then the music sups will find you. |
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Post by mitchkricun on Jul 14, 2021 8:45:51 GMT -6
Very generous responses! Thank you! To further clarify, I’m 55 yrs young, still churning out new original music (check the “What Are You Working On? Forum), with no delusions of becoming a popular artist at this point. I would love to get some placements, but having a difficult time getting anyone to listen to my material. I’ve yet to get a response saying, “We checked out your music but it’s not what we’re looking for” or “The production value is not up to snuff”
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Post by keymod on Jul 14, 2021 11:28:36 GMT -6
Bill, you should write a how to book.
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Post by drbill on Jul 14, 2021 12:33:40 GMT -6
Bill, you should write a how to book. Haha! Still figuring everything out. LOL |
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