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Post by donr on Mar 22, 2023 15:03:54 GMT -6
Anyone here using the Cranbourne 500r8? I saw an ad on VintageKing for it and it seems like a clever and painlesss way to integrate analog 500 series outboard and interface I/O in DAW sessions. Built in monitor section, headphone amp, and analog summing also. Class compliant, no drivers.
gravesnumber9, are you still digging your 500adat? Did you consider getting the 500r8 instead of whatever to replace the Apollo?
It looks attractive to me to downsize an entire studio setup to a very small footprint that does what you need done easily. Plus you can add the ADAT ones for more I/0 and 500 modules. Route all hardware inserts right from the DAW, no patching.
Take a photo of the Cranbourne module settings and put it in the session folder, you've got total recall.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 22, 2023 15:16:08 GMT -6
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 22, 2023 16:16:00 GMT -6
Anyone here using the Cranbourne 500r8? I saw an ad on VintageKing for it and it seems like a clever and painlesss way to integrate analog 500 series outboard and interface I/O in DAW sessions. Built in monitor section, headphone amp, and analog summing also. Class compliant, no drivers. gravesnumber9, are you still digging your 500adat? Did you consider getting the 500r8 instead of whatever to replace the Apollo? It looks attractive to me to downsize an entire studio setup to a very small footprint that does what you need done easily. Plus you can add the ADAT ones for more I/0 and 500 modules. Route all hardware inserts right from the DAW, no patching. Take a photo of the Cranbourne module settings and put it in the session folder, you've got total recall. I absolutely love it. It's an incredible piece of gear. I don't know what makes good conversion (no cork sniffing here) but to me I prefer it's converters for some reason and you certainly don't need to have golden ears to prefer its headphone amps. Fantastic. And the rest just works like you would expect. It's almost too good to be true. Why did I not go with the 500r8? I don't know actually. I think because I realized I needed more overall channels. But if I had a time machine I would seriously consider pairing a 500r8 with the 500adat. Right now I'm too invested in my current workflow but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't crossed my mind on occasion even now. Why everyone is not buying these is beyond me. EDIT - gwlee7 did you get yours set up yet? |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 22, 2023 16:17:12 GMT -6
Anyone here using the Cranbourne 500r8? I saw an ad on VintageKing for it and it seems like a clever and painlesss way to integrate analog 500 series outboard and interface I/O in DAW sessions. Built in monitor section, headphone amp, and analog summing also. Class compliant, no drivers. gravesnumber9, are you still digging your 500adat? Did you consider getting the 500r8 instead of whatever to replace the Apollo? It looks attractive to me to downsize an entire studio setup to a very small footprint that does what you need done easily. Plus you can add the ADAT ones for more I/0 and 500 modules. Route all hardware inserts right from the DAW, no patching. Take a photo of the Cranbourne module settings and put it in the session folder, you've got total recall. I absolutely love it. It's an incredible piece of gear. I don't know what makes good conversion (no cork sniffing here) but to me I prefer it's converters for some reason and you certainly don't need to have golden ears to prefer its headphone amps. Fantastic. And the rest just works like you would expect. It's almost too good to be true. Why did I not go with the 500r8? I don't know actually. I think because I realized I needed more overall channels. But if I had a time machine I would seriously consider pairing a 500r8 with the 500adat. Right now I'm too invested in my current workflow but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't crossed my mind on occasion even now. Why everyone is not buying these is beyond me. Oh yeah, the N22H breakout box and headphone amp (I only have/need one) is also awesome and an unbelievable price point for the quality. The C.A.S.T. system "just works" as they say. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 22, 2023 18:26:20 GMT -6
I have it hooked up but not fired up. I came really close to purchasing the R8 instead but have some rackmount stuff that I wanted to keep.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 22, 2023 20:16:14 GMT -6
Sample rates over 48k destroy ADAT connection as a viable option in my book. Do you really want an interface that sometimes halves your routing options and destroys your routing grid? It’s a major pain in the ass.
Aggregate Device requires setting something as a slave, which means real time resampling. I ran tests putting a stereo mix into 2 devices, L in one and R in the other. It ain’t pretty - you can’t do it! If there’s no correlation between sources hitting different devices you might get away with it, but it’s not worth the risk. It seems like it’s for crap like webcasting corporate meetings, not music production.
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 22, 2023 21:32:12 GMT -6
Sample rates over 48k destroy ADAT connection as a viable option in my book. Do you really want an interface that sometimes halves your routing options and destroys your routing grid? It’s a major pain in the ass. Aggregate Device requires setting something as a slave, which means real time resampling. I ran tests putting a stereo mix into 2 devices, L in one and R in the other. It ain’t pretty - you can’t do it! If there’s no correlation between sources hitting different devices you might get away with it, but it’s not worth the risk. It seems like it’s for crap like webcasting corporate meetings, not music production. My first thought when looking at it was, “why didn’t they give it AES-EBU for the digital connection?” I imagine the answer is cost, but still. I wouldn’t want to entrust everything to ADAT either. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 23, 2023 1:19:57 GMT -6
Sample rates over 48k destroy ADAT connection as a viable option in my book. Do you really want an interface that sometimes halves your routing options and destroys your routing grid? It’s a major pain in the ass. Aggregate Device requires setting something as a slave, which means real time resampling. I ran tests putting a stereo mix into 2 devices, L in one and R in the other. It ain’t pretty - you can’t do it! If there’s no correlation between sources hitting different devices you might get away with it, but it’s not worth the risk. It seems like it’s for crap like webcasting corporate meetings, not music production. I don’t generally do sample rates over 48k so maybe that’s why I’ve never had an issue? I don’t know. ADAT has never given me issues. I send two different ADAT devices into 828es with no issue at all. Or if there is an issue it’s so small that I can’t detect it even on critical listen and many different projects. But again, always at 48k. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 23, 2023 5:18:32 GMT -6
EmRR is correct that 88.2 and above cuts track count in half. I use 88.2 sample rate and have to use both outputs of the ADAT 500 connected to both inputs of my 828es (same interface graves has) to fully connect it.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 23, 2023 7:24:30 GMT -6
Sample rates over 48k destroy ADAT connection as a viable option in my book. Do you really want an interface that sometimes halves your routing options and destroys your routing grid? It’s a major pain in the ass. Aggregate Device requires setting something as a slave, which means real time resampling. I ran tests putting a stereo mix into 2 devices, L in one and R in the other. It ain’t pretty - you can’t do it! If there’s no correlation between sources hitting different devices you might get away with it, but it’s not worth the risk. It seems like it’s for crap like webcasting corporate meetings, not music production. I don’t generally do sample rates over 48k so maybe that’s why I’ve never had an issue? I don’t know. ADAT has never given me issues. I send two different ADAT devices into 828es with no issue at all. Or if there is an issue it’s so small that I can’t detect it even on critical listen and many different projects. But again, always at 48k. The cursing begins the moment you go higher. |
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Post by donr on Mar 23, 2023 12:10:09 GMT -6
Anyone here producing music with more than 12 dB of dynamic range? Do any pro studios normally run 96kHz or above sampling rate? Cranbourne uses its C.A.S.T. link for analogue summing across multiple boxes. I guess they chose ADAT digital for compatibility with outside devices. Too bad.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 23, 2023 12:45:23 GMT -6
Anyone here producing music with more than 12 dB of dynamic range? Do any pro studios normally run 96kHz or above sampling rate? Cranbourne uses its C.A.S.T. link for analogue summing across multiple boxes. I guess they chose ADAT digital for compatibility with outside devices. Too bad. C.A.S.T. isn't ADAT, it's more like Dante except it's Cranborne's own system. (MOTU has one too, Avid, etc). The unit you're looking at, the 500r8, isn't ADAT at all. It communicates with your computer through USB just like any other converter. The one that I got is because I already use ADAT expanders and record at 48khz anyway. I know lots of pro studios that run at 96khz and higher, but I also know lots that run at 48khz. To me the biggest benefit of 96khz is the lower latency but I do hours and hours of on-location recording every week so the file sizes are a deal killer for me. Anyway, if the ADAT thing is a concern for you don't sweat it. 500r8 and C.A.S.T. are an ADAT free zone!!! haha |
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Post by donr on Mar 23, 2023 15:12:19 GMT -6
Anyone here producing music with more than 12 dB of dynamic range? Do any pro studios normally run 96kHz or above sampling rate? Cranbourne uses its C.A.S.T. link for analogue summing across multiple boxes. I guess they chose ADAT digital for compatibility with outside devices. Too bad. C.A.S.T. isn't ADAT, it's more like Dante except it's Cranborne's own system. (MOTU has one too, Avid, etc). The unit you're looking at, the 500r8, isn't ADAT at all. It communicates with your computer through USB just like any other converter. The one that I got is because I already use ADAT expanders and record at 48khz anyway. I know lots of pro studios that run at 96khz and higher, but I also know lots that run at 48khz. To me the biggest benefit of 96khz is the lower latency but I do hours and hours of on-location recording every week so the file sizes are a deal killer for me. Anyway, if the ADAT thing is a concern for you don't sweat it. 500r8 and C.A.S.T. are an ADAT free zone!!! haha My point was they could've used the CAST or similar network cable based proprietary comm for linking multiple boxes' inputs as well as outputs. I assume you can't get a Cranbourne 16 or 24 channel I/O system without digitally linking via ADAT, which constrains the # of channels at high sample rates. I doubt if I'd ever need to go higher than 24/48 to record my primitive pop musings anyway. The company obviously put some thought into the utility of their products. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 23, 2023 16:12:46 GMT -6
Lol donr. Primitive pop musings could possibly be one of the greatest “undersellings” of all time. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 18:39:19 GMT -6
Sample rates over 48k destroy ADAT connection as a viable option in my book. Do you really want an interface that sometimes halves your routing options and destroys your routing grid? It’s a major pain in the ass. Aggregate Device requires setting something as a slave, which means real time resampling. I ran tests putting a stereo mix into 2 devices, L in one and R in the other. It ain’t pretty - you can’t do it! If there’s no correlation between sources hitting different devices you might get away with it, but it’s not worth the risk. It seems like it’s for crap like webcasting corporate meetings, not music production. You've lost me on this one Doug, between a modern interface / ADAT device this should never really never be an issue. Let's start with the routing options, you've got 16 channels of adat or 8 S/MUX, I've never used the Cranborne but from a quick look it only has 8 I/O so what's the problem? I've used my MOTU at variable sample rates with an ADAT expansion interface and it works perfectly fine (sample accurate, no clicks etc.), in terms of "routing grid" it was as simple as placing the right boxes to pull the I/O back to and from the DAW.
If we want to get into a technical debate as someone mentioned AES / EBU. How are they any different in terms of sync and why should it be AES? Every one of those technologies including S/Pdif send clock pulses via modulation within an audio stream. It's pretty obvious when you don't get an M/S lock (meaning a sync between the devices) because again it'll click & pop, not to mention that devices are PLL scrubbed (or use some other methodology nowadays) and if you really are that bothered there's a wordclock option. Where I think most people get confused is latency, ADAT does add additional latency so if your record from interface A and then from adat interface B they'll be out of time (this doesn't just apply to ADAT either). However you can overcome this by ping plugs, sample aligning etc.
As for the whole above 48Khz sample rate thing with ADAT, again I haven't had any issues so what are you doing or using? Anyway if I take your meaning to be it's not the most expansive solution at 96Khz then sure. However I'd assume that if one has a clue what they're doing they'll get an R8 or some interface with and use the ADAT as an expander, 16 slots of decent 500 is expensive and if you need more than that I'm sure you could come up with a better solution like AVB. You could still stack the Cranborne's off your main interface then expand out via AVB anyway so which way you look at it there's still no issues besides moolah.!
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 23, 2023 18:51:09 GMT -6
The problem is that only 4 channels can go over the light pipe at 88.2 and up so if your interface only has one ADAT I/O pair, you are forced to use 44 or 48 to get all 8 channels. Higher sample rates cut the number of channels by half or even more.
I didn’t care because I don’t track lots of stuff at once. Someone who does, will if trying to rely on ADAT at higher samples rates.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 19:00:03 GMT -6
The problem is that only 4 channels can go over the light pipe at 88.2 and up so if your interface only has one ADAT I/O pair, you are forced to use 44 or 48 to get all 8 channels. Higher sample rates cut the number of channels by half or even more. I didn’t care because I don’t track lots of stuff at once. Someone who does, will if trying to rely on ADAT at higher samples rates. Edit: I get ya.. In that case buy a better interface  .!
Anyway the Cranborne 500 ADAT can run 8 channels of SMUX so it's not the Cranborne's fault.
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 23, 2023 19:09:39 GMT -6
From that same page:
2 ADAT Input and 2 ADAT Output ports enable expansion of up to 8 channels at 44.1 - 96kHz, or 4 channels at 176.4 - 192kHz.
The below table details the routing of ADAT I/O between the 4 ADAT ports and 500ADAT’s 500 series slots including the tradeoffs between high sample rates and the available I/O count:
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 23, 2023 19:13:50 GMT -6
LOL we posted about the same time.
I have a MOTU 828es and it only has two sets of Adat I/0 so eight channels is it for lightpipe over 48K
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Post by EmRR on Mar 23, 2023 21:55:46 GMT -6
I’m constantly back and forth between 44k1/48/88k2/96. Having half the ADAT paths come and go would be a constant maintenance/reset concern if it was a significant track count. I lived it very briefly and hell no! I frequently have 20+ live inputs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 22:16:00 GMT -6
I’m constantly back and forth between 44k1/48/88k2/96. Having half the ADAT paths come and go would be a constant maintenance/reset concern if it was a significant track count. I lived it very briefly and hell no! I frequently have 20+ live inputs. If you've got an interface like an Apollo, MOTU 16A, RME UFX etc. it's nothing more than an expansion. At the peak of my new build I had an MOTU 16A + 1248 over AVB with an ADAT expansion coming from my primary interface (Lynx Aurora). It was good for 40 I/O at 96Khz and I just left it at that, if I changed the sample rate it would expand to 48 I/O but I didn't want, need or use it. The matrix used ADAT channels 1 - 8 and if I changed the sample rate 9-16 would appear but I didn't have to do anything, I'd just continue to use 1-8.
I suppose I could have just bought another MOTU but then I'd need the AVB switch and another 500 rack etc. it's just a bit of a cost saving exercise really. Anyway, I moved to the Big Six where all my outboard is permanently patched and latency isn't a concern whatsoever so meh LOL.! I don't love ADAT but it's for entirely different reasons..
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Post by EmRR on Mar 23, 2023 22:55:48 GMT -6
but I didn't want, need or use it. That would be why you didn’t notice the pain in the ass! Hahaha. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 24, 2023 5:37:09 GMT -6
Lol. Now I am considering returning my 500ADAT and using the savings to buy more modules.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 24, 2023 11:05:10 GMT -6
C.A.S.T. isn't ADAT, it's more like Dante except it's Cranborne's own system. (MOTU has one too, Avid, etc). The unit you're looking at, the 500r8, isn't ADAT at all. It communicates with your computer through USB just like any other converter. The one that I got is because I already use ADAT expanders and record at 48khz anyway. I know lots of pro studios that run at 96khz and higher, but I also know lots that run at 48khz. To me the biggest benefit of 96khz is the lower latency but I do hours and hours of on-location recording every week so the file sizes are a deal killer for me. Anyway, if the ADAT thing is a concern for you don't sweat it. 500r8 and C.A.S.T. are an ADAT free zone!!! haha My point was they could've used the CAST or similar network cable based proprietary comm for linking multiple boxes' inputs as well as outputs. I assume you can't get a Cranbourne 16 or 24 channel I/O system without digitally linking via ADAT, which constrains the # of channels at high sample rates. I doubt if I'd ever need to go higher than 24/48 to record my primitive pop musings anyway. The company obviously put some thought into the utility of their products. Yeah that does seem like a whiff. I think C.A.S.T. is 2i/2o, why not just add four C.A.S.T. jacks to the ADAT? The answer is probably that it increases the cost by a lot, but that would have a been a cool feature. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 24, 2023 11:08:08 GMT -6
I’m constantly back and forth between 44k1/48/88k2/96. Having half the ADAT paths come and go would be a constant maintenance/reset concern if it was a significant track count. I lived it very briefly and hell no! I frequently have 20+ live inputs. Well I can run the 500ADAT at 96khz if I wanted to. I have enough ADAT I/O available to do that, it just doesn't seem worth the hassle of the increased file sizes for my use cases. Caveat for any others reading this, remember that the 500ADAT also functions purely in the analog realm as well. So ignoring the ADAT it is also a 500 box with inserts, summing, high voltage power (relatively), AUX I/O, mix blend, pan control, and two really good headphone amps. Even without ADAT I think it blows away other 500 racks. Just my opinion. Plus it looks cool! |
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