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Post by drumsound on May 13, 2021 1:12:28 GMT -6
I'm in the process of treating my vocal/iso. We're framing with 1x2' =1/2 "extensions so that we can put 2" Knauf rigid insulation on the walls and then we'll be stapling crushed velvet (because groovy is the key) to the framing. All of the framing is just over 8' tall so that the 2'x4'x2" sheets of insulation will be used (some cut to work around the window into the live room and outlets and whatnot).
The question I really need to figure out is this: One short wall will have framing that is 30.5 inches wide. Can I center two 4'x8'2" centered in the framing and then stapling the fabric over the entire 30.5 inches going to be OK, you should I make sure the whole surface of 30.5 inches covered in the rigid insulation?
Edited to correct size of rigid insulation.
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Post by svart on May 13, 2021 8:28:28 GMT -6
I'm not really following what you mean.
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Post by Tbone81 on May 13, 2021 8:50:35 GMT -6
Hmm....not sure what you mean. Is the insulation really in 4x8’ batts? That seems huge
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Post by drumsound on May 13, 2021 15:25:55 GMT -6
Hmm....not sure what you mean. Is the insulation really in 4x8’ batts? That seems huge Yeah, I'm a dumbass and meant 2x4' bats. Will edit the original post. |
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Post by drumsound on May 13, 2021 15:32:11 GMT -6
I'm not really following what you mean. Imagine if you will a rectangle that is 30.5"x96" I wonder if rigid insulation that is that (in pieces) 24"x96" (2 stacked pieces) centered in the box will be enough to not have reflections issues, especially if the entire face of the box is covered with fabric. |
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Post by Tbone81 on May 13, 2021 16:52:43 GMT -6
Oh, yeah in that case yes that’s more than enough space covered with insulation. If anything I think you need to be careful that you don’t over dampen the high end. I’ve learned that the hard way. Covering part of the insulation with craft paper, or wood slats will help retain a more balanced sound.
I mean it depends on what frequencies you’re trying to tame. But if possible I’d do a wall at a time, listen, record a scratch take and then make adjustments as you go, adding more insulation etc.
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Post by svart on May 13, 2021 18:36:00 GMT -6
The heavier weight the board for a given thickness, it will start to reflect some at the higher frequencies too..
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Post by drumsound on May 14, 2021 8:47:08 GMT -6
Oh, yeah in that case yes that’s more than enough space covered with insulation. If anything I think you need to be careful that you don’t over dampen the high end. I’ve learned that the hard way. Covering part of the insulation with craft paper, or wood slats will help retain a more balanced sound. I mean it depends on what frequencies you’re trying to tame. But if possible I’d do a wall at a time, listen, record a scratch take and then make adjustments as you go, adding more insulation etc. That's an interesting idea. Thanks for the food for thought. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 27, 2021 11:53:07 GMT -6
I'm in the process of treating my vocal/iso. We're framing with 1x2' =1/2 "extensions so that we can put 2" Knauf rigid insulation on the walls and then we'll be stapling crushed velvet (because groovy is the key) to the framing. All of the framing is just over 8' tall so that the 2'x4'x2" sheets of insulation will be used (some cut to work around the window into the live room and outlets and whatnot). The question I really need to figure out is this: One short wall will have framing that is 30.5 inches wide. Can I center two 4'x8'2" centered in the framing and then stapling the fabric over the entire 30.5 inches going to be OK, you should I make sure the whole surface of 30.5 inches covered in the rigid insulation? Edited to correct size of rigid insulation. Make sure your crushed velvet is fire rated, otherwise should something happen your insurance is null and void. |
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Post by drumsound on May 27, 2021 12:13:02 GMT -6
I'm in the process of treating my vocal/iso. We're framing with 1x2' =1/2 "extensions so that we can put 2" Knauf rigid insulation on the walls and then we'll be stapling crushed velvet (because groovy is the key) to the framing. All of the framing is just over 8' tall so that the 2'x4'x2" sheets of insulation will be used (some cut to work around the window into the live room and outlets and whatnot). The question I really need to figure out is this: One short wall will have framing that is 30.5 inches wide. Can I center two 4'x8'2" centered in the framing and then stapling the fabric over the entire 30.5 inches going to be OK, you should I make sure the whole surface of 30.5 inches covered in the rigid insulation? Edited to correct size of rigid insulation. Make sure your crushed velvet is fire rated, otherwise should something happen your insurance is null and void. That's part of today's 'quest' |
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Post by Quint on May 27, 2021 18:00:09 GMT -6
I'm in the process of treating my vocal/iso. We're framing with 1x2' =1/2 "extensions so that we can put 2" Knauf rigid insulation on the walls and then we'll be stapling crushed velvet (because groovy is the key) to the framing. All of the framing is just over 8' tall so that the 2'x4'x2" sheets of insulation will be used (some cut to work around the window into the live room and outlets and whatnot). The question I really need to figure out is this: One short wall will have framing that is 30.5 inches wide. Can I center two 4'x8'2" centered in the framing and then stapling the fabric over the entire 30.5 inches going to be OK, you should I make sure the whole surface of 30.5 inches covered in the rigid insulation? Edited to correct size of rigid insulation. Make sure your crushed velvet is fire rated, otherwise should something happen your insurance is null and void. What is considered "fire rated" and how does one go about determining if a product meets that requirement? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 27, 2021 20:44:58 GMT -6
Make sure your crushed velvet is fire rated, otherwise should something happen your insurance is null and void. What is considered "fire rated" and how does one go about determining if a product meets that requirement? The manufacturer should say the item is flame retardant and more importantly should provide some paperwork to this effect. This should be enough to cover your ass with the insurance company. I know you would think me of all people could go into far more detail, but Tony my fire inspector buddy has not returned my text (fire fighter who wanted to carry a gun, it was TX) and I spent a wee bit of time at the bar. If you have the paperwork the insurance company can go after the vendor instead of denying your claim. |
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Post by Quint on May 27, 2021 21:18:08 GMT -6
What is considered "fire rated" and how does one go about determining if a product meets that requirement? The manufacturer should say the item is flame retardant and more importantly should provide some paperwork to this effect. This should be enough to cover your ass with the insurance company. I know you would think me of all people could go into far more detail, but Tony my fire inspector buddy has not returned my text (fire fighter who wanted to carry a gun, it was TX) and I spent a wee bit of time at the bar. If you have the paperwork the insurance company can go after the vendor instead of denying your claim. I get what you're saying, but how does one do this, from a practical standpoint? I mean, fire rating is just not something that most fabric manufacturers bother to post. It's just not on their radar. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 28, 2021 9:00:29 GMT -6
The manufacturer should say the item is flame retardant and more importantly should provide some paperwork to this effect. This should be enough to cover your ass with the insurance company. I know you would think me of all people could go into far more detail, but Tony my fire inspector buddy has not returned my text (fire fighter who wanted to carry a gun, it was TX) and I spent a wee bit of time at the bar. If you have the paperwork the insurance company can go after the vendor instead of denying your claim. I get what you're saying, but how does one do this, from a practical standpoint? I mean, fire rating is just not something that most fabric manufacturers bother to post. It's just not on their radar. If you walk into your average fabric store your absolutely right, but any acoustical supply house or commercial fabric distributor will know. In most locations code requires some degree of flame retardant on such things as drapes in commercial buildings. In our little corner of the world Guilford of Main has pretty much become the standard, but most Acustical supplies will offer an off brand as well. At least it’s not like theater drapes where I have to sew a label stating all the information! |
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Post by Quint on May 28, 2021 17:32:23 GMT -6
I get what you're saying, but how does one do this, from a practical standpoint? I mean, fire rating is just not something that most fabric manufacturers bother to post. It's just not on their radar. If you walk into your average fabric store your absolutely right, but any acoustical supply house or commercial fabric distributor will know. In most locations code requires some degree of flame retardant on such things as drapes in commercial buildings. In our little corner of the world Guilford of Main has pretty much become the standard, but most Acustical supplies will offer an off brand as well. At least it’s not like theater drapes where I have to sew a label stating all the information! I've used low thread count bed sheets before. My understanding is that they are flame retarded to one degree or another. Unless I'm wrong about that. |
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Post by stratboy on May 30, 2021 20:09:38 GMT -6
Acoustic First, Richmond, VA, is a Guilford of Maine dealer (along with other acoustical fabrics, I believe). Give them a call. They will know if there is a fire retardant crushed velvet available. It is very important that you use a fire retardant fabric.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jun 21, 2021 14:30:33 GMT -6
Acoustic First, Richmond, VA, is a Guilford of Maine dealer (along with other acoustical fabrics, I believe). Give them a call. They will know if there is a fire retardant crushed velvet available. It is very important that you use a fire retardant fabric. I went with Guilford for the room I just completed a few weeks ago. Not cheap, but worth it for the fire rating and the look. Beautiful stuff. |
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Post by gouge on Jun 21, 2021 15:26:02 GMT -6
Not sure id use rigid insulation as an acoustic treatment in a vocal booth.
Absorption is more desirable in small spaces or treatmemt that is designed for close use like bad panels.
Of course it all depends on size of booth.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 21, 2021 17:38:18 GMT -6
Not sure id use rigid insulation as an acoustic treatment in a vocal booth. Absorption is more desirable in small spaces or treatmemt that is designed for close use like bad panels. Of course it all depends on size of booth. Is there something about rigid insulation that makes it unsuitable for close use? It comes in a wide range of densities after all. Maybe there's something I don't know?
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Post by drumsound on Jun 21, 2021 17:55:21 GMT -6
Acoustic First, Richmond, VA, is a Guilford of Maine dealer (along with other acoustical fabrics, I believe). Give them a call. They will know if there is a fire retardant crushed velvet available. It is very important that you use a fire retardant fabric. I went with Guilford for the room I just completed a few weeks ago. Not cheap, but worth it for the fire rating and the look. Beautiful stuff. I can't stand the look fo Guilford. It all just looks like a doctor's office waiting room to me. |
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Post by gouge on Jun 21, 2021 21:53:19 GMT -6
Not sure id use rigid insulation as an acoustic treatment in a vocal booth. Absorption is more desirable in small spaces or treatmemt that is designed for close use like bad panels. Of course it all depends on size of booth. Is there something about rigid insulation that makes it unsuitable for close use? It comes in a wide range of densities after all. Maybe there's something I don't know?
rigid insulation is typically for thermal insulation. Do you mean semi rigid insulation. generally 25-50mm thick would be mounted 50-100mm off the wall for best effect. That aside its usually made from something like glass fiber so is dangerous in tight spaces. A better solution could be blanket insulation which is thicker 150mm and less dense (being blanket) and made from less toxic material.. polyester type blanket as an example. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jun 22, 2021 6:56:36 GMT -6
I went with Guilford for the room I just completed a few weeks ago. Not cheap, but worth it for the fire rating and the look. Beautiful stuff. I can't stand the look fo Guilford. It all just looks like a doctor's office waiting room to me. Lol, to each his own then. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jun 23, 2021 20:42:13 GMT -6
Just to follow up, gouge, here's the Guilford in the front of the room during construction.  IMG_4963 |
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Post by Quint on Jun 23, 2021 20:51:27 GMT -6
Just to follow up, gouge, here's the Guilford in the front of the room during construction. IMG_4963I took a look at your Flickr photos. Was I seeing correctly that there is pink fluffy underneath the Rockwool (or whatever the gray stuff is)? |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jun 23, 2021 21:20:01 GMT -6
Just to follow up, gouge , here's the Guilford in the front of the room during construction. IMG_4963I took a look at your Flickr photos. Was I seeing correctly that there is pink fluffy underneath the Rockwool (or whatever the gray stuff is)? Yes, behind the Roxul in the walls I stuffed the space with pink fluffy and put in horizontal supports to keep it from compressing down on itself. In the front of the room it's a bit over 30" deep at its extreme. Ceiling is the same - Roxul between the joists, pink fluffy on top. |
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