shawnh
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Post by shawnh on May 3, 2021 12:44:58 GMT -6
So maybe a dumb question here - but I have recently picked up some new hardware pieces and have been in cable running hell the last week or so. I have an Output platform desk which has rack gear under the bridge. I've got some hardware pieces (silver bullet, AS bus comp, AS 1176F, and a WA 1073eq), a Samson patchbay, and a Furman power strip racked up now. I also have a sidecar rack that I built. Needless to say I've got a lot of cables running around behind the desk.
My main question is - how concerned do I have to be with power cables running near/with all of the balanced audio cable I have running back there? I really like having the Furman right there because I can switch everything on with 1 push - but it makes it awfully hard not to run power cables with audio cables. Is this considered a big problem?
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Post by Blackdawg on May 3, 2021 12:48:42 GMT -6
It can be depending on how the unit itself handles power/ground.
Its generally easy and good practice to run power on one side of the rack and audio cables on the other. Get some velcro cable ties and you can make it work.
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Post by indiehouse on May 3, 2021 14:42:05 GMT -6
From what I understand, it’s best practice to avoid long parallel runs, try to keep 3ft distance, and cross lines at 90 degrees.
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shawnh
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Post by shawnh on May 3, 2021 16:29:58 GMT -6
From what I understand, it’s best practice to avoid long parallel runs, try to keep 3ft distance, and cross lines at 90 degrees. Right - but is that possible in the real world? And if you can’t is it really that bad? Like I said I know kind of a dumb question. I don’t have any major noise issues but lately if I have my headphones on and am running through a compressor I occasionally get some weird noise - but I don’t have a great reference for what is normal or acceptable. At normal levels in the mix I certainly don’t notice any problems. |
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Post by jmoose on May 3, 2021 16:34:47 GMT -6
How "bad" it is can depend on a few things and with short runs you might be ok, especially if everything is balanced (vs unbalanced)... but generally speaking its not a great idea to run power & audio next to each other. In some situations it can really increase the noise floor and/or start to pull in RF.
As for cable management & patchbays at a certain point its worth using proper multichannel snakes vs single cables. Its easier to work with and there's also a significant space & weight savings. Especially with a TRS patchbay the extra weight can lead to fatigue and failure on the jacks.
Either way zip ties are your friend! Some days I feel like I'm keeping the zip tie industry in business...
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 3, 2021 17:16:12 GMT -6
It can be a pain in the ass, yes patchbays and custom snakes help, but there are always a couple of pieces that will have the AC cables on the opposite side of everything else.
The secret sauce is rear rack rails, not for racking but for cable management.
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shawnh
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Post by shawnh on May 3, 2021 17:18:56 GMT -6
So another follow up - is it a mistake to have the furman power strip racked directly below a compressor?
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Post by jmoose on May 3, 2021 17:26:32 GMT -6
Right - but is that possible in the real world? And if you can’t is it really that bad? Like I said I know kind of a dumb question. I don’t have any major noise issues but lately if I have my headphones on and am running through a compressor I occasionally get some weird noise - but I don’t have a great reference for what is normal or acceptable. At normal levels in the mix I certainly don’t notice any problems. In my book some hiss & hum with gains cranked is expected but "weird noise" is never really acceptable. Think of it this way. Whatever "weird noise" is audible on one solo'd track? Multiply that times 20-30-40 at the end of the production... Audio is a cumulative game of inches. Easy to lose ground, hard to make it up. Maybe obviously it depends on what yer doing, overall goals & aesthetic but it kinda sucks to record an album, hand it over for mixing and or mastering and having someone come back and say hey man, what happened because the noise floor is through the roof? As a mix guy for hire I've had to make that call and do damage control. It sucks. Wiring is never fun. I've got a 192 point patchbay ripped apart right now because my workflow could be better. ought a new console last year and was stuffed for time and had to get back up & running. The nice thing about taking time to wire things right is that yes, for one it eliminates some noise & hash but for another, its way easier to make changes and fixes when you need to. There's nothing wrong with spaghetti until you need to stop and address something, and then can't find that one single bad cable that's stopped everything dead... |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 3, 2021 18:00:34 GMT -6
Right - but is that possible in the real world? And if you can’t is it really that bad? Like I said I know kind of a dumb question. I don’t have any major noise issues but lately if I have my headphones on and am running through a compressor I occasionally get some weird noise - but I don’t have a great reference for what is normal or acceptable. At normal levels in the mix I certainly don’t notice any problems. In my book some hiss & hum with gains cranked is expected but "weird noise" is never really acceptable. Think of it this way. Whatever "weird noise" is audible on one solo'd track? Multiply that times 20-30-40 at the end of the production... Audio is a cumulative game of inches. Easy to lose ground, hard to make it up. Maybe obviously it depends on what yer doing, overall goals & aesthetic but it kinda sucks to record an album, hand it over for mixing and or mastering and having someone come back and say hey man, what happened because the noise floor is through the roof? As a mix guy for hire I've had to make that call and do damage control. It sucks. Wiring is never fun. I've got a 192 point patchbay ripped apart right now because my workflow could be better. ought a new console last year and was stuffed for time and had to get back up & running. The nice thing about taking time to wire things right is that yes, for one it eliminates some noise & hash but for another, its way easier to make changes and fixes when you need to. There's nothing wrong with spaghetti until you need to stop and address something, and then can't find that one single bad cable that's stopped everything dead... Sounds like you need a heat shrink label maker J ! What console did you buy? |
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Post by miadaudio on May 4, 2021 6:48:41 GMT -6
So another follow up - is it a mistake to have the furman power strip racked directly below a compressor? It depends on the unit. Gear that has big caps, inductors, transformers, etc.. are usually more sensitive than say a compressor. However the best idea would be to take some measurements with the furman close to the compressor and then move it further away and see if you can measure/ hear any difference. Generally speaking it's not good practise to have power strips close to gear but in reality it might not be a big problem (a well shielded enclosure helps a lot). Most gear have internal power supplies with toroidal trafos inside anyway. SMPS is a different story. My suggestion (and this is purely my opinion) would be to leave it alone if you can't notice any difference and if it's more convenient for you. Spend this time on something more fun like making music!  |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 4, 2021 6:54:15 GMT -6
So another follow up - is it a mistake to have the furman power strip racked directly below a compressor? It depends on the unit. Gear that has big caps, inductors, transformers, etc.. are usually more sensitive than say a compressor. However the best idea would be to take some measurements with the furman close to the compressor and then move it further away and see if you can measure/ hear any difference. Generally speaking it's not good practise to have power strips close to gear but in reality it might not be a big problem (a well shielded enclosure helps a lot). Most gear have internal power supplies with toroidal trafos inside anyway. SMPS is a different story. My suggestion (and this is purely my opinion) would be to leave it alone if you can't notice any difference and if it's more convenient for you. Spend this time on something more fun like making music! Nailed it! One thing I found over the years is rack mount outlet strips tend to last longer on the bottom of the rack. |
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Post by jmoose on May 4, 2021 14:09:19 GMT -6
Nailed it! One thing I found over the years is rack mount outlet strips tend to last longer on the bottom of the rack. Why do you say that? I totally get putting them at the bottom from a function standpoint, but it also makes those nifty work lights (if the box has 'em) a whole lot less useful. Anyway... the console I bought last year might be called an overgrown summing box. Grabbed an SSL X Desk which replaced a 32 channel Soundcraft. No the X desk doesn't have preamps or EQ... but it does have faders, 16 pan pots, aux sends, inserts and a proper monitor section for speaker management. Its a baby console! There was a massive gap between when I ordered it, expected it and actual arrival date. When the covid shutdown hit like a lot of people, work stopped and I had a lot of time on my hands so I figured it'd be a good time to make the change. Ripped my room down to nothing, even taking the couch out... then got really, really busy and never got things quite dialed in to where I wanted. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 4, 2021 14:43:24 GMT -6
Nailed it! One thing I found over the years is rack mount outlet strips tend to last longer on the bottom of the rack. Why do you say that? I totally get putting them at the bottom from a function standpoint, but it also makes those nifty work lights (if the box has 'em) a whole lot less useful. Anyway... the console I bought last year might be called an overgrown summing box. Grabbed an SSL X Desk which replaced a 32 channel Soundcraft. No the X desk doesn't have preamps or EQ... but it does have faders, 16 pan pots, aux sends, inserts and a proper monitor section for speaker management. Its a baby console! There was a massive gap between when I ordered it, expected it and actual arrival date. When the covid shutdown hit like a lot of people, work stopped and I had a lot of time on my hands so I figured it'd be a good time to make the change. Ripped my room down to nothing, even taking the couch out... then got really, really busy and never got things quite dialed in to where I wanted. When they first came out with the ETA and Furman conditioners everybody was putting them in the top of the rack, after about the 10th live gig and 4th studio gig I figured out the following. 1. A bunch of good Edison plugs was too heavy and were A. Always pulling out B bending the face plates 2 in most instances you really couldn’t rig them to not fan at the top. Then one day I used this live rig where all the cables were cut to length and the Furman was on the bottom, didn’t have to make sure everything was plugged in all the cables were running at 90 degrees and the owner had never had a problem with squeezing in a piece next to the Furman because of the front panel. Turns out when it comes to 14-12 gauge power cables not fighting gravity is the truck! |
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