|
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 31, 2013 0:26:59 GMT -6
Hey Fella's,
This may not be the place for this thread, but i know there are a lot of guys that hang out here, who sing their asses off! Including the forum creator! I am a drummer/bass player/guitar player/engineer blah blah blah guy like most of you, and i even sing pretty good back up vocals, but for about the last year or so, i've been getting a more persistent desire to improve my singing. My ears are good to go, i can hear and sing steady pitches and phrases to show someone a lick or passage with no problem, i often sing parts when i'm learning them on guitar or bass. I can even comp together a decent vocal track. What i'd like to TRY to do now, is learn to sing like a confident, poised , knowing WTF is up, Vocalist.
does anyone know of an online vocal training course, cd or dvd training set that actually works? I've seen expensive ones, but i have no earthly clue if they work, and i keep thinking "thats a risk", i could pick up another preamp that i KNOW will work for that much coin! LOl!
I don't mind paying $500 for a course that actually gives me the tools i need to make myself better.
thanx fella's T
|
|
|
Post by lolo on Jul 31, 2013 0:39:04 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by matt on Jul 31, 2013 7:40:33 GMT -6
What i'd like to TRY to do now, is learn to sing like a confident, poised , knowing WTF is up, Vocalist. Me too. I have suffered Robert Plant envy for 40 years! Although I have read, he had tremendous stage fright early on. I would like to secretly build a track and play it for my vocalist. Tell him he has competition, but not tell him who it is. That is, if the track turns out to be listenable.
|
|
|
Post by btreim on Jul 31, 2013 8:25:11 GMT -6
Kim Wood-Sandusky has a pretty great DVD set. Maybe a little biased since I worked on it a bit, but I also used it with great results.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 31, 2013 10:28:34 GMT -6
Thanx lolo, i checked out a few clips on youtube, not sure if i saw the right stuff, but i like the jump right in approach, lots of exercises. i like that. I'm gonna see what i can find on Kim Wood, thanx btriem
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2013 11:33:18 GMT -6
I would rather hear a songwriter sing their stuff with conviction and their own phrasing over a hired gun...Be confident...Try and emulate the people you love and let your own limitations shape your style.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 31, 2013 11:48:36 GMT -6
I would rather hear a songwriter sing their stuff with conviction and their own phrasing over a hired gun...Be confident...Try and emulate the people you love and let your own limitations shape your style. I havent, and don't disagree with this remotely, never have. The problem is my "style is not appealing in the least, to me or anyone else! check erratic Barry Mannilow on estrogen therapy! i'd really like to smooth out my delivery and note shifting, to achieve something of decent listenability, my phrasing and sense of rhythm i'm very happy with. i'm not looking to blow anyone away with a new found prowess, i just want to be able to go for something and be confident i can get there. More for producing and opening my self up to new perspectives than anything else, i'd guess?
|
|
|
Post by matt on Jul 31, 2013 11:55:22 GMT -6
I would rather hear a songwriter sing their stuff with conviction and their own phrasing over a hired gun...Be confident...Try and emulate the people you love and let your own limitations shape your style. i just want to be able to go for something and be confident I recommend trying to channel your inner Elvis. Everyone has one lurking inside. Seriously though, bravado is a part of performing. I am a fairly confident guitarist, and am working on bringing that with me when I sing. I'm also trying to learn to sing/play at the same time. For some reason, I find this really difficult. I guess practice makes perfect.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2013 12:44:42 GMT -6
That's all singing technique, I personally don't like my voice much either (chasememanhattan.bandcamp.com) BUT some people have said they like and I chalk everything else up to bias and knowing how much weight Melodyne is pulling. The list of inspiring vocalists who are terrible singers is staggering.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 31, 2013 13:41:33 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2013 16:23:35 GMT -6
This guy can sing five octaves...
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 31, 2013 17:10:05 GMT -6
Where's the facpalm emoticon when you need it?
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 31, 2013 19:31:38 GMT -6
that dudes been practicing inward singing, it's the greatest invention since yodeling dude!
Matt, i agree, conviction is everything to me in music, that's why i'm such a HUGE Zep fan, i definitely deliver the bravado in my playing, singing is just my weak point, i practiced the seth rigs stuff last night, and it actually seemed pretty useful, i didn't like that the exercises weren't in "time" it made you herk and jerk a little to much, and i'm all about laying back with my natural time keeping. i'm going to check out some others and i'll report back
keep the info coming though, i really appreciate it and will check them all out
Thanx T
|
|
|
Post by scumbum on Jul 31, 2013 20:51:53 GMT -6
Hey Fella's, This may not be the place for this thread, but i know there are a lot of guys that hang out here, who sing their asses off! Including the forum creator! I am a drummer/bass player/guitar player/engineer blah blah blah guy like most of you, and i even sing pretty good back up vocals, but for about the last year or so, i've been getting a more persistent desire to improve my singing. My ears are good to go, i can hear and sing steady pitches and phrases to show someone a lick or passage with no problem, i often sing parts when i'm learning them on guitar or bass. I can even comp together a decent vocal track. What i'd like to TRY to do now, is learn to sing like a confident, poised , knowing WTF is up, Vocalist. does anyone know of an online vocal training course, cd or dvd training set that actually works? I've seen expensive ones, but i have no earthly clue if they work, and i keep thinking "thats a risk", i could pick up another preamp that i KNOW will work for that much coin! LOl! I don't mind paying $500 for a course that actually gives me the tools i need to make myself better. thanx fella's T Hey man, I struggled with my voice for YEARS and never went anywhere . Then I started taking Voice lessons from Mark Baxter and he has helped me tremendously !! Take Lessons from him , trust me , you will improve your voice and learn a ton !! Mark's in Boston and also teaches in L.A. and New York , but I'm in California . So I do video Lessons . He also does Skype and its pretty much the same thing as being there in person . The video lessons that I do (not Skype Lessons) started with me sending Mark recordings of me singing songs . Mark then listened to it and heard what problems I was having , pitch , singing through the registers......all that stuff . Then he gets his video camera and films a 30 minute Lesson explaining what he heard and how to improve my voice . He then plays on the piano the exercises and sings what I'm supposed to do . After that he mails me a DVD of the Lesson . I then practice for a awhile along with the DVD and whenever I want to , I record myself singing the exercises and send him the file over the internet . He then listens to the file I sent him , how I did with the exercises and hears where I'm struggling . And so on.......... I've done 19 Lessons over the course of some years . I sucked big time at singing ,I was a horrible singer . But now I feel I can pass as a singer . To sing good you have to get rid of all the extra muscle tension , in the throat , Tongue (this is still what I struggle with) , face , neck.........all the extra stuff we do thinking it helps us to sing , when it doesn't , its what makes us sing bad , off pitch , have bad tone . The other important thing is Exercises and stretching the vocal folds everyday . The voice is a muscle . What happens when you don't use a muscle ?? It gets weak , stiff and not flexible . Exercises are VERY IMPORTANT . Its exactly like the athlete going to play a sport , if he doesn't exercise , when he gets on the field , hes gonna struggle and not do good , even if he has natural ability , if hes out of shape , hes not gonna play good . Heres a link to Mark Baxter's site www.voicelesson.com/html/lessons/index.htmHe started a youtube channel recently with short videos of singing tips www.youtube.com/user/voicelessondotcomThis video right here is from my personal video Lesson . Mark edited out the parts where he mentions my name , and is talking to me personally , and then uploaded it to youtube . This video is not my actual Lesson video , BUT , he did get on this subject and filmed this right after he filmed my video . I told him I needed help on singing those powerful rock screams . So this is the same exercises he sent me , but he filmed this video as a youtube video right after he did mine .
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 31, 2013 21:01:46 GMT -6
Damn scum!, great post!, thanx a lot man, ward mentioned him also, i will check it out for sure.
thanx T
|
|
|
Post by scumbum on Jul 31, 2013 21:54:20 GMT -6
Oh I didn't even see that ! Cool , Ward ! So do you take lessons from Mark too ? Another cool thing about Mark is he is the Vocal coach for many professional singers , like Steven Tyler from Aerosmith and Scott Weiland from STP . A member on gearslutz who knows Mark from way back said during the 90's when Aerosmith made their big come back , Mark was the guy that helped Steven Tyler get back in shape . Theres no set number of Lessons or any big amount of money you have to pay up front . He just goes Lesson , by Lesson , what ever pace you want , once a month , once every three months.....whenever . I'm usually broke , so I just do lessons whenever I have the money .
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 31, 2013 22:35:22 GMT -6
Yes another consideration, from a guy with SERIOUS vocal chops. Ken Tamplin
|
|
|
Post by scumbum on Aug 6, 2013 20:38:42 GMT -6
Mark recommends to sing into a device so you can monitor your volume and also into a tuner to monitor your pitch . When you vocalize , the number one thing is to maintain the exact same volume as you go through the exercise . So if your singing a scale , A - B - C# - D - E...E - D - C# - B - A.......all those notes need to be the same volume . And as you go higher , singing that same scale all through out your vocal range , you need to stay at the same volume , from the lowest part of your register to the highest . Your volume can be soft , med , or loud , but you pick what volume level you want to sing at first , then do the exercise . So number one focus when vocalizing is maintaining the same volume and releasing all bad muscle tensions , ( throat , tongue , face , neck ) . Once you can maintain the same volume and you've eliminated all the extra bad muscle tensions , you sing into a tuner to help you monitor your pitch . So this is my setup I use to vocalize . I posted a picture so you can see my setup . I have a Pro Tools Session with all my voice lessons . I just unmute whichever Lesson I wanna do . I sing into a mic that is sent to an AUX track in Pro Tools . On that AUX track I have a digirack trim plugin and that is what I use to monitor my volume . As I go through my exercises , I watch the input level on that trim plugin . I never change the settings , so everyday I know where my voice is at instantly . The tuner has a built in mic , which works "ok" but not that great . Its pretty annoying . So I feed the tuner my mic signal . "After" the trim plug , which I use to monitor my volume , I then have a compressor SLAM my vocal , you don't want any dynamics , you want the tuner to get a solid steady level . Then after the compressor I put another digirack trim plugin and adjust the output level to -18 that I send to the tuner . The tuner gets all messed up and reacts slow it the level feeding it is too loud or too soft . I've found about -18 , is the level it likes and the tuner will react fast and follow you as you sing . I then stick it on a mic stand . So heres a picture so you can see , when I sing in the mic , I can monitor my volume and pitch at the same time . Also its good to record yourself alot and as you play back your recorded vocal track you can watch the tuner to see where you were flat or sharp . Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 6, 2013 20:53:13 GMT -6
good stuff scum! I've been practicing scales with the steady volume level thing in mind(saw a vid of Mr Baxter on ytube talking about exactly what you posted), it seems to be helping me, i'm relaxing more, the notes are coming easier and with more tone! Maybe there is hope for me yet?
btw, is that a missing link on your ns10? lol!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 21:25:09 GMT -6
i just want to be able to go for something and be confident I recommend trying to channel your inner Elvis. Everyone has one lurking inside. Seriously though, bravado is a part of performing. I am a fairly confident guitarist, and am working on bringing that with me when I sing. I'm also trying to learn to sing/play at the same time. For some reason, I find this really difficult. I guess practice makes perfect. I play and sing a lot. My big failure is that I cannot sing, play rhythm and then pop out a solo as needed. For some dumb reason playing lead and leading (playing and singing) are two different mindset a for me. I hear guys do it and I am amazed. I hope you nail it all.
|
|
|
Post by scumbum on Aug 6, 2013 21:33:07 GMT -6
good stuff scum! I've been practicing scales with the steady volume level thing in mind(saw a vid of Mr Baxter on ytube talking about exactly what you posted), it seems to be helping me, i'm relaxing more, the notes are coming easier and with more tone! Maybe there is hope for me yet? btw, is that a missing link on your ns10? lol! Yeah thats my trusty Missing Link ! I'm short an op amp right now , so when I'm doing drums , I run a VP26 on snare and VP312 on Kick . Then when I track other stuff , like guitar or vocals , I take an op amp out of one of the pres and stick it in the Missing Link , so I have a VP pre and Missing Link chain . I actually have an unopened package from Jeff with a Gar2520 that I need to build , so I wouldn't need to do all that switching crap , but I've just been too damn lazy to build it !! EVERYTHING I know about the voice , I learned from Mark , EVERYTHING . I'm just repeating what he told me in Lessons . Keeping the same volume level is just training your diaphragm how to control your air flow . Its teaching you to have command and full control of your air .
|
|