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Post by svart on Mar 8, 2021 9:45:38 GMT -6
So I got an invite to a Reaper facebook group.
I generally don't join things that I'm invited to, and I also generally don't join groups that are terribly broad in their scope.
Anyway, I made the mistake of answering a question in the group and now I'm being bombarded with "so-and-so has posted a question to the Reaper DAW group" alerts.
Almost every single one of these posts is "I can't record" or "I don't hear anything".
Usually a few folks will chime in with some "have you tried ______" and generally the reply is usually "No, what's that?" and then someone will post links to one of the many videos or Reaper forum stickies that explain how to set up and use Reaper.
I'm talking like 90% of the posts are from folks who can't set up Reaper with their gear.
Now, besides the obvious issue of Reaper being "free" to use in it's entirety which seems to draw a large number of newbies, which I understand, I see a huge problem with the lack of attempt to troubleshoot.
One particular thread started out with the "I hit record and I don't see anything". Other folks asked if they saw waveforms, meters moving, etc. The OP started to get frustrated with the folks trying to help and the thread got toxic pretty quick so folks simply posted links to the setup tutorials.
Instead of saying thanks for any of the FREE HELP, this person then went and created another post to rant about how they "asked a simple question" and how the "unhelpful people just posted links to tutorials without trying to help" despite there being dozens of replies asking for more info about the problem and multiple people seriously trying to help.
It was pretty clear that the OP just wanted someone to hold their hand so they did not have to do anything at all. Tons of people piled into that thread and complained about how "nobody helps them, all they do is post links to tutorials"..
I mean, is this what we've come to in the audio world? Has it become such a commodity that even the process of learning how to setup and operate your DAW from watching a 5 minute video is somehow tantamount to oppression?
Are they so entitled that they believe that people should be doing hours of back-and-forth troubleshooting for free and get angry when people aren't living up to their expectations??
There were dozens and dozens of people piling into this rant thread to complain how "nobody helped them" and that they all had to "figure it out on their own".
Oh the irony.
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Post by m03 on Mar 8, 2021 10:16:24 GMT -6
It's been a thing affecting online low cost-of-entry / DIY communities for a while, especially when catalyst events happen that encourage a large influx of new participants. Sort of an Eternal September effect. A see some forums and subreddits handle it with Daily or Weekly (depending on forum traffic) containment thread for these types of questions, but that has to be combined with aggressive moderation of threads or it doesn't do any good. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 8, 2021 10:34:49 GMT -6
Sorry for your frustration but Honestly, I think of that as a good thing...if all the new kids in the “engineering” market are that lazy and self entitled, then it virtually guarantees that they’ll never make anything of themselves as AE’s, Producers, etc....that means less competition for me!
I mean, if Life Of Brian taught me anything it’s to “Always look on the bright side or life.”
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Post by drbill on Mar 8, 2021 11:03:48 GMT -6
So I got an invite to a Reaper facebook group. I generally don't join things that I'm invited to, and I also generally don't join groups that are terribly broad in their scope. Anyway, I made the mistake of answering a question in the group and now I'm being bombarded with "so-and-so has posted a question to the Reaper DAW group" alerts. Almost every single one of these posts is "I can't record" or "I don't hear anything". Usually a few folks will chime in with some "have you tried ______" and generally the reply is usually "No, what's that?" and then someone will post links to one of the many videos or Reaper forum stickies that explain how to set up and use Reaper. I'm talking like 90% of the posts are from folks who can't set up Reaper with their gear. Now, besides the obvious issue of Reaper being "free" to use in it's entirety which seems to draw a large number of newbies, which I understand, I see a huge problem with the lack of attempt to troubleshoot. One particular thread started out with the "I hit record and I don't see anything". Other folks asked if they saw waveforms, meters moving, etc. The OP started to get frustrated with the folks trying to help and the thread got toxic pretty quick so folks simply posted links to the setup tutorials. Instead of saying thanks for any of the FREE HELP, this person then went and created another post to rant about how they "asked a simple question" and how the "unhelpful people just posted links to tutorials without trying to help" despite there being dozens of replies asking for more info about the problem and multiple people seriously trying to help. It was pretty clear that the OP just wanted someone to hold their hand so they did not have to do anything at all. Tons of people piled into that thread and complained about how "nobody helps them, all they do is post links to tutorials".. I mean, is this what we've come to in the audio world? Has it become such a commodity that even the process of learning how to setup and operate your DAW from watching a 5 minute video is somehow tantamount to oppression? Are they so entitled that they believe that people should be doing hours of back-and-forth troubleshooting for free and get angry when people aren't living up to their expectations?? There were dozens and dozens of people piling into this rant thread to complain how "nobody helped them" and that they all had to "figure it out on their own". Oh the irony. ima not on Fazebook and I don't no howz to do it i wanna join reper group can youz sho mez how 2 do it and mayb help a brothr outs? |
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 8, 2021 11:19:20 GMT -6
the avid group is painfully like this at times as well. Super super basic questions on repeat.
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Post by svart on Mar 8, 2021 11:47:48 GMT -6
So I got an invite to a Reaper facebook group. I generally don't join things that I'm invited to, and I also generally don't join groups that are terribly broad in their scope. Anyway, I made the mistake of answering a question in the group and now I'm being bombarded with "so-and-so has posted a question to the Reaper DAW group" alerts. Almost every single one of these posts is "I can't record" or "I don't hear anything". Usually a few folks will chime in with some "have you tried ______" and generally the reply is usually "No, what's that?" and then someone will post links to one of the many videos or Reaper forum stickies that explain how to set up and use Reaper. I'm talking like 90% of the posts are from folks who can't set up Reaper with their gear. Now, besides the obvious issue of Reaper being "free" to use in it's entirety which seems to draw a large number of newbies, which I understand, I see a huge problem with the lack of attempt to troubleshoot. One particular thread started out with the "I hit record and I don't see anything". Other folks asked if they saw waveforms, meters moving, etc. The OP started to get frustrated with the folks trying to help and the thread got toxic pretty quick so folks simply posted links to the setup tutorials. Instead of saying thanks for any of the FREE HELP, this person then went and created another post to rant about how they "asked a simple question" and how the "unhelpful people just posted links to tutorials without trying to help" despite there being dozens of replies asking for more info about the problem and multiple people seriously trying to help. It was pretty clear that the OP just wanted someone to hold their hand so they did not have to do anything at all. Tons of people piled into that thread and complained about how "nobody helps them, all they do is post links to tutorials".. I mean, is this what we've come to in the audio world? Has it become such a commodity that even the process of learning how to setup and operate your DAW from watching a 5 minute video is somehow tantamount to oppression? Are they so entitled that they believe that people should be doing hours of back-and-forth troubleshooting for free and get angry when people aren't living up to their expectations?? There were dozens and dozens of people piling into this rant thread to complain how "nobody helped them" and that they all had to "figure it out on their own". Oh the irony. ima not on Fazebook and I don't no howz to do it i wanna join reper group can youz sho mez how 2 do it and mayb help a brothr outs?  |
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Post by svart on Mar 8, 2021 11:53:08 GMT -6
Sorry for your frustration but Honestly, I think of that as a good thing...if all the new kids in the “engineering” market are that lazy and self entitled, then it virtually guarantees that they’ll never make anything of themselves as AE’s, Producers, etc....that means less competition for me! I mean, if Life Of Brian taught me anything it’s to “Always look on the bright side or life.” You'd think that.. But what I've found is that the power of "friends" is much much greater than the power of knowledge. Someone will go to their friend to record, even if they have zero knowledge, before they pay a stranger to record. What happens next is that they get a poor result, but the sweat equity involved overrides the logical conclusion of receiving poor quality. Over time they realize it's poor quality and then instead of going to someone who has experience, they'll "invest" in themselves by buying their own gear. Eventually they'll get hit up by their friends to do a recording and the cycle perpetuates. |
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Post by Ward on Mar 8, 2021 13:31:07 GMT -6
Don't waste your breath. It's just not worth your time and effort.
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Post by srb on Mar 8, 2021 14:42:00 GMT -6
I left two recording/studio Facebook groups (to which I was invited) this last week for similar reasons. I was not involved long.
I will add, however, that it was obvious that I wasn't going to learn much, either...except being frustrated with these kinds of online personalities. Lots of vanity posts. Just not much substance there.
I'm glad to help someone if I can, but these groups were rarely about the aspects of studios and recording that interest me.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 8, 2021 15:02:18 GMT -6
Sorry for your frustration but Honestly, I think of that as a good thing...if all the new kids in the “engineering” market are that lazy and self entitled, then it virtually guarantees that they’ll never make anything of themselves as AE’s, Producers, etc....that means less competition for me! I mean, if Life Of Brian taught me anything it’s to “Always look on the bright side or life.” You'd think that.. But what I've found is that the power of "friends" is much much greater than the power of knowledge. Someone will go to their friend to record, even if they have zero knowledge, before they pay a stranger to record. What happens next is that they get a poor result, but the sweat equity involved overrides the logical conclusion of receiving poor quality. Over time they realize it's poor quality and then instead of going to someone who has experience, they'll "invest" in themselves by buying their own gear. Eventually they'll get hit up by their friends to do a recording and the cycle perpetuates. Yeah...you’re right I suppose...but I’d add that those tend to be the clients that you really don’t want anyway. They’re the ones that want to pay you pennys on the dollar, expect A-list quality results, and ask for a million revisions. While at the same time having poorly arraigned songs, mediocre musicianship and egos that are unbelievable. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 8, 2021 20:11:51 GMT -6
Sorry for your frustration but Honestly, I think of that as a good thing...if all the new kids in the “engineering” market are that lazy and self entitled, then it virtually guarantees that they’ll never make anything of themselves as AE’s, Producers, etc....that means less competition for me! I mean, if Life Of Brian taught me anything it’s to “Always look on the bright side or life.” “Did he say, ‘blessed are the cheesemakers?’”  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2021 0:25:04 GMT -6
They're hopeless. Most of the groups will ban or flame you for daring to suggest that a poster pay for professional help.
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Post by svart on Mar 9, 2021 8:27:04 GMT -6
They're hopeless. Most of the groups will ban or flame you for daring to suggest that a poster pay for professional help. I used paid support as an example. I'm perfectly happy to try to help someone for no reason, but I suppose I'm also not considering that it seems that there are a lot more people out there that are perfectly happy not trying to learn for themselves and will drain you and get mad that you don't have hours in your day for their problems. I'm going to sound like the old man yelling at clouds but I've seen it so much these days, that the internet is an infinite resource for information on anything such as setting up your DAW, but I see a lot more people using it in a bastardized fashion where they look for only the answer they seek and not the knowledge they need. Normal: Have an issue that needs troubleshooting. Go do some research. Learn the solution and understand the underlying processes. Fix the problem. Retain the knowledge which makes fixing issues faster next time. Internet version: Have an issue that needs troubleshooting. Go ask a question in a forum using limited jargon and unsatisfactory information. Get links to the information so you can do the research because people aren't getting enough info to help. Get angry that someone is not doing it for you. Show your entitlement by openly whining that people aren't doing it for you. If someone in the thread says that you should do more for yourself, call them selfish, not realizing the irony of selfishly expecting others to cater to your desires. Do it all over again for the next problem because you spent more time angrily replying to people in the thread (and possibly reading the communist manifesto) than reading/watching Reaper How To's. |
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Post by mcirish on Mar 9, 2021 11:55:58 GMT -6
I used to be part of so many users groups but the lack of any knowledge about audio and recording made it painful. The worst part was getting notified every time someone posted. It seemed a monumental waste of time so I dropped out of all groups and only occasionally go on Facebook anymore. The noise level there is so high that I don't see the point anymore, except for business posts.
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 9, 2021 14:09:29 GMT -6
One of the things that sets RGO apart from other places is that the information is here for most things I want to learn if I take a moment and search. Plus, I earmark threads when I find something that I didn’t know and need for later. The one thing I don’t want to do is bombard y’all with questions about things I simply need to put the time in to understand. I have to practice guitar to get better. I have to practice tracking and mixing to get better just the same.
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Post by svart on Mar 9, 2021 15:16:06 GMT -6
One of the things that sets RGO apart from other places is that the information is here for most things I want to learn if I take a moment and search. Plus, I earmark threads when I find something that I didn’t know and need for later. The one thing I don’t want to do is bombard y’all with questions about things I simply need to put the time in to understand. I have to practice guitar to get better. I have to practice tracking and mixing to get better just the same. It's cool. I think we can all tell the difference between someone who has an honest question and someone who just wants instant gratification. |
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 10, 2021 17:39:34 GMT -6
Are you guys saying that it's worse than GS? Or that Farcebook is the place that people go when the've washed out of GS?
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Post by svart on Mar 10, 2021 17:41:02 GMT -6
Are you guys saying that it's worse than GS? Or that Farcebook is the place that people go when the've washed out of GS? I think it's just a different type of crowd. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 24, 2021 21:51:19 GMT -6
What happens next is that they get a poor result, but the sweat equity involved overrides the logical conclusion of receiving poor quality. Over time they realize it's poor quality and then instead of going to someone who has experience, they'll "invest" in themselves by buying their own gear. Eventually they'll get hit up by their friends to do a recording and the cycle perpetuates. I've been looking at Retro gear a lot on Reverb for the past few months after buying a used 176 and freaking out on how much I love it. I feel like most of the Retro Sta's I see are exactly what you're describing. "Oh, I buy this and suddenly my vocal sounds like heaven." I'd disagree and say there's no sweat in that equity though, lol. People want to coast and it's sold to them every damn day. |
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Post by svart on Mar 25, 2021 7:28:04 GMT -6
What happens next is that they get a poor result, but the sweat equity involved overrides the logical conclusion of receiving poor quality. Over time they realize it's poor quality and then instead of going to someone who has experience, they'll "invest" in themselves by buying their own gear. Eventually they'll get hit up by their friends to do a recording and the cycle perpetuates. I've been looking at Retro gear a lot on Reverb for the past few months after buying a used 176 and freaking out on how much I love it. I feel like most of the Retro Sta's I see are exactly what you're describing. "Oh, I buy this and suddenly my vocal sounds like heaven." I'd disagree and say there's no sweat in that equity though, lol. People want to coast and it's sold to them every damn day. I think maybe we think about this differently. I've seen artists who record themselves do a take and then spend hours and hours cutting, retiming, tuning and running tons of plugins on their tracks just to get something that they could have done if they just retracked a few times after some practice. I think the tools being there make them feel like they *have* to use them. So while it's not sweat equity in the way that someone might write, practice, rewrite, practice and then track, it's still a ton of work in other ways that compel folks to feel heavily invested in the project. |
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Post by rowmat on Mar 25, 2021 17:56:13 GMT -6
I’m hearing horror stories from our mastering engineer who says since COVID more artists are DIY’ing from home with mostly average to horrendous results and thinking that mastering will turn their efforts into sonic bliss.
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Post by svart on Mar 25, 2021 18:18:54 GMT -6
I’m hearing horror stories from our mastering engineer who says since COVID more artists are DIY’ing from home with mostly average to horrendous results and thinking that mastering will turn their efforts into sonic bliss. You don't say.. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 25, 2021 19:03:01 GMT -6
I think maybe we think about this differently. I've seen artists who record themselves do a take and then spend hours and hours cutting, retiming, tuning and running tons of plugins on their tracks just to get something that they could have done if they just retracked a few times after some practice. I think the tools being there make them feel like they *have* to use them. So while it's not sweat equity in the way that someone might write, practice, rewrite, practice and then track, it's still a ton of work in other ways that compel folks to feel heavily invested in the project. Not to be argumentative, but that sounds like we're agreeing on the point which is just get the performance. Maybe sweat equity was the wrong term to apply here, but there's no difference in expecting things to sound great with an expensive piece of gear and taking one performance and spending hours trying to make it sound good. |
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Post by Ward on Mar 31, 2021 13:19:50 GMT -6
I’m hearing horror stories from our mastering engineer who says since COVID more artists are DIY’ing from home with mostly average to horrendous results and thinking that mastering will turn their efforts into sonic bliss. How are people doing with their own haircuts and self-dentistry? |
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Post by rowmat on Mar 31, 2021 13:29:14 GMT -6
I’m hearing horror stories from our mastering engineer who says since COVID more artists are DIY’ing from home with mostly average to horrendous results and thinking that mastering will turn their efforts into sonic bliss. How are people doing with their own haircuts and self-dentistry?  |
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