|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 4, 2021 12:13:14 GMT -6
I've always used soft clipping on everything because, I don't know, "soft" sounds safer or something? Maybe it's PTSD from my early days of effing up all my home recordings with terrible gain staging and digital clipping (this was like 20 years ago and I was basically a kid, don't judge me!!!!) but hard clipping sounds scary.
I'm asking because it seems like a lot of folks indicate that hard clipping is more like the modeled hardware. What are your experiences and preferred settings?
(Also, although I'm getting pretty good at picking up subtle overtones on individual tracks, and I can certainly hear when I've done something that stacks wrong and screws up my overall mix... I'm still not that great at putting those two together. So, for now, "do what sounds best" is good advice but often what I think sounds best sounds terrible at the end of the mix and I have to waste time going back to fix and find.)
|
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Mar 4, 2021 15:33:19 GMT -6
I've always used soft clipping on everything because, I don't know, "soft" sounds safer or something? Maybe it's PTSD from my early days of effing up all my home recordings with terrible gain staging and digital clipping (this was like 20 years ago and I was basically a kid, don't judge me!!!!) but hard clipping sounds scary. I'm asking because it seems like a lot of folks indicate that hard clipping is more like the modeled hardware. What are your experiences and preferred settings? (Also, although I'm getting pretty good at picking up subtle overtones on individual tracks, and I can certainly hear when I've done something that stacks wrong and screws up my overall mix... I'm still not that great at putting those two together. So, for now, "do what sounds best" is good advice but often what I think sounds best sounds terrible at the end of the mix and I have to waste time going back to fix and find.)
I say try to avoid clipping except for FX sounds. The rest is this which is today as magical in and out of the box.
The Lindell 80 clipping this is something I set to soft or off. I doubt that my Neve 1073 clone sounds anything like this and I think they should rework this section.
I record with my favorite preamps.
From there I rebuild something like in the real world complete ITB.
TAPE --> Desk-->Compression-->SUB MIX-->>MB
PS:
Do not do it right the first time, mistakes is the way to learn. It never stops every mix I learn something that I could have done different....
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 4, 2021 17:15:39 GMT -6
I've always used soft clipping on everything because, I don't know, "soft" sounds safer or something? Maybe it's PTSD from my early days of effing up all my home recordings with terrible gain staging and digital clipping (this was like 20 years ago and I was basically a kid, don't judge me!!!!) but hard clipping sounds scary. I'm asking because it seems like a lot of folks indicate that hard clipping is more like the modeled hardware. What are your experiences and preferred settings? (Also, although I'm getting pretty good at picking up subtle overtones on individual tracks, and I can certainly hear when I've done something that stacks wrong and screws up my overall mix... I'm still not that great at putting those two together. So, for now, "do what sounds best" is good advice but often what I think sounds best sounds terrible at the end of the mix and I have to waste time going back to fix and find.)
I say try to avoid clipping except for FX sounds. The rest is this which is today as magical in and out of the box.
The Lindell 80 clipping this is something I set to soft or off. I doubt that my Neve 1073 clone sounds anything like this and I think they should rework this section.
I record with my favorite preamps.
From there I rebuild something like in the real world complete ITB.
TAPE --> Desk-->Compression-->SUB MIX-->>MB
PS:
Do not do it right the first time, mistakes is the way to learn. It never stops every mix I learn something that I could have done different....
Haha, if you're referencing my signature line, that's not really what it means. Actually, what you're saying is closer to what I mean. "Do it right the first time" to me means take the time to do it the right way instead of just "getting it done". It's a call to be meticulous, not a call to be perfect. I found a big framed poster next to a dumpster that said "do it right the first time" and hung it up over my desk when I was younger. Lost it somewhere along the line. Anyway, sounds like your instinct is similar to mine. I'm getting distortion from lots of sources. I'm also trying to get some real world thing going ITB similar to what you describe with some really subtle settings on a vaguely "analogue-like" chain. Interesting that so many favor the hard clipping and tell you to "push the plugin". |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Mar 4, 2021 19:48:24 GMT -6
I am not a Tech who could explain the background but clipping rarely sounds good on sources. To my understanding pushing gear is finding the sweet-sopt. Svart once taught me just to listen for it. Best advise ever. How sweet sweet-spot can be is very obvious with this guy: fuseaudiolabs.de/#/pages/product?id=300860580If all plugs would work on this quality level we wouldn’t have the discussion how to make it come together ITB. It would happen just like with hardware. I pray that my business survives COVID. Instand buy for all FAL plug ins, yes all....🙌 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 20:41:14 GMT -6
I don’t think the Lindell 80 sound particularly Nevey or the Lindell 50 sounds particularly APIish. The 80 is cool on drums but I find the 50 just lofi and almost bandpassed sounding and digitally distorted. Just over sample the hell out of the 80. If you want warmth, get the Black Rooster Vpre-73, sonimus, or just use the tube part of SDRR2 imo. I think the Nevey 70s pre in PSP Infinistrip sounds better gainstaged well than the Lindell 80. But if you drive the Infinistrip 70s pre hard, it gets boxy and starts farting. The Lindell 80 at 8-16x oversampling is certainly easier to gainstage but doesn’t sound as good. It’s Lindell branded so I don’t know what people expected...
There’s also the old school Variety of Sound Tesla Pro, which is still free and sounds good but 32-bit windows only.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 4, 2021 20:58:36 GMT -6
I don’t think the Lindell 80 sound particularly Nevey or the Lindell 50 sounds particularly APIish. The 80 is cool on drums but I find the 50 just lofi and almost bandpassed sounding and digitally distorted. Just over sample the hell out of the 80. If you want warmth, get the Black Rooster Vpre-73, sonimus, or just use the tube part of SDRR2 imo. I think the Nevey 70s pre in PSP Infinistrip sounds better gainstaged well than the Lindell 80. But if you drive the Infinistrip 70s pre hard, it gets boxy and starts farting. The Lindell 80 at 8-16x oversampling is certainly easier to gainstage but doesn’t sound as good. It’s Lindell branded so I don’t know what people expected... There’s also the old school Variety of Sound Tesla Pro, which is still free and sounds good but 32-bit windows only. I have the PA subscription so I use the Lindell 80 a lot to do kind of a console simulation. First pass, broad strokes EQ kind of thing. I do 16x OS and soft clip and am rarely close to driving it unless I’m just totally messing with a sound like on organ or some harmonica, both of which can take a lot of abuse for my taste. The Fuse stuff looks very cool. But I’m so plug-in heavy as it is. I’m Trying to do less processing and work more on getting the sounds I want from mic placement, instrument selection, etc. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 21:12:51 GMT -6
I don’t think the Lindell 80 sound particularly Nevey or the Lindell 50 sounds particularly APIish. The 80 is cool on drums but I find the 50 just lofi and almost bandpassed sounding and digitally distorted. Just over sample the hell out of the 80. If you want warmth, get the Black Rooster Vpre-73, sonimus, or just use the tube part of SDRR2 imo. I think the Nevey 70s pre in PSP Infinistrip sounds better gainstaged well than the Lindell 80. But if you drive the Infinistrip 70s pre hard, it gets boxy and starts farting. The Lindell 80 at 8-16x oversampling is certainly easier to gainstage but doesn’t sound as good. It’s Lindell branded so I don’t know what people expected... There’s also the old school Variety of Sound Tesla Pro, which is still free and sounds good but 32-bit windows only. I have the PA subscription so I use the Lindell 80 a lot to do kind of a console simulation. First pass, broad strokes EQ kind of thing. I do 16x OS and soft clip and am rarely close to driving it unless I’m just totally messing with a sound like on organ or some harmonica, both of which can take a lot of abuse for my taste. The Fuse stuff looks very cool. But I’m so plug-in heavy as it is. I’m Trying to do less processing and work more on getting the sounds I want from mic placement, instrument selection, etc. Try trimming all your tracks, sometimes a ton, sticking it to hard clipping, and shoving it on every track driven slightly. Use the bus on every bus. The bus is awesome. It sounds good. Soft clipping gives more of a gross buildup with it ime. Hard clipping can shave more transients off if you stick it on 8-16x and you can alleviate the brightness later. |
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 4, 2021 23:18:07 GMT -6
I have the PA subscription so I use the Lindell 80 a lot to do kind of a console simulation. First pass, broad strokes EQ kind of thing. I do 16x OS and soft clip and am rarely close to driving it unless I’m just totally messing with a sound like on organ or some harmonica, both of which can take a lot of abuse for my taste. The Fuse stuff looks very cool. But I’m so plug-in heavy as it is. I’m Trying to do less processing and work more on getting the sounds I want from mic placement, instrument selection, etc. Try trimming all your tracks, sometimes a ton, sticking it to hard clipping, and shoving it on every track driven slightly. Use the bus on every bus. The bus is awesome. It sounds good. Soft clipping gives more of a gross buildup with it ime. Hard clipping can shave more transients off if you stick it on 8-16x and you can alleviate the brightness later. See this confuses me. Why would soft clipping build up or hard clipping if I’m not driving it. Or are you suggesting I trim up to drive the meters in the plug and push the simulation of the analog distortion. |
|
|
|
Post by sean on Aug 22, 2022 6:39:15 GMT -6
Try trimming all your tracks, sometimes a ton, sticking it to hard clipping, and shoving it on every track driven slightly. Use the bus on every bus. The bus is awesome. It sounds good. Soft clipping gives more of a gross buildup with it ime. Hard clipping can shave more transients off if you stick it on 8-16x and you can alleviate the brightness later. See this confuses me. Why would soft clipping build up or hard clipping if I’m not driving it. Or are you suggesting I trim up to drive the meters in the plug and push the simulation of the analog distortion. This is an old post but I was demoing the Lindell 80 and I believe what Dan is suggesting is that by trimming the audio down before hitting the plugin you can drive the preamp section harder to get more of the saturation/character stuff, and most likely the "hard clip" is a sharper knee/brickwall clipper, and not "more clipping", while "soft clip" is a more rounded off knee so you are actually hitting that part of the process more, which probably would interfere with the sound of the saturation part. Having it set to hard clip, if you hear the clipper but still want more saturation, you can trim down the audio more and drive the preamp section harder. If I were to use any plugin like Dan suggest, I would think of it like I'm re-recording...and if you are trying to get a "blown up, overdriven preamp, turn down the fader so it doesn't clip the converter" vibe, his gain staging makes sense. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 11:48:14 GMT -6
See this confuses me. Why would soft clipping build up or hard clipping if I’m not driving it. Or are you suggesting I trim up to drive the meters in the plug and push the simulation of the analog distortion. This is an old post but I was demoing the Lindell 80 and I believe what Dan is suggesting is that by trimming the audio down before hitting the plugin you can drive the preamp section harder to get more of the saturation/character stuff, and most likely the "hard clip" is a sharper knee/brickwall clipper, and not "more clipping", while "soft clip" is a more rounded off knee so you are actually hitting that part of the process more, which probably would interfere with the sound of the saturation part. Having it set to hard clip, if you hear the clipper but still want more saturation, you can trim down the audio more and drive the preamp section harder. If I were to use any plugin like Dan suggest, I would think of it like I'm re-recording...and if you are trying to get a "blown up, overdriven preamp, turn down the fader so it doesn't clip the converter" vibe, his gain staging makes sense. agreed on that. Also there are some other considerations: Clipping: if you want to clip, why would you, you can try to hide most of the clipping by putting it on transients. This is what typically old school digital brickwall limiters. Especially if they say “true peak.” It is always, always less distorted to just lower the overall gain of the production so it doesn’t clip than use the true peak function but artists and labels want their junky masters maxxed out. Subtle distortion that’s mainly audible in the stack up: Most of the distortion of a lot of good sounding older productions is a more subtle distortion on everything. And you have to turn it down on most emulation plugins to get that. Some digital thing that’s at -10dbfs is not a mic level signal. The same pre and board and eq. And most “good” analog gear doesn’t “clip” unlike Neve or API. The lights or meters might be red but it’s not clipping, even if it’s getting nasty. It might be some crazy distortion or oscillation. Most of the distortion is in the low end with old transformers and rises alarming with frequency in pre NE5532 and Jensen 990 opamps. There’s also aging in transistors. and a lot of the time that subtle distortion was not Neve or API despite clones, Emulations, and echo chambers. There’s a ton of MCI and later cheap stuff that sounded big. www.pspaudioware.com/products/psp-mcq is MCI and then there’s a lot of good other stuff that’s not a horrific Waves or private equity backed bargain basement plug |
|
