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Vinyl
Feb 17, 2021 9:02:17 GMT -6
Post by indiehouse on Feb 17, 2021 9:02:17 GMT -6
I'm 42 and I just started getting serious about vinyl. Wondering if there is a difference in the quality of vinyl between different sellers? I always try and buy from my local record stores first, but I have a lot of catching up to do on my favorites. They don't always have what I'm looking for, and it gets expensive.
So, I've noticed that Amazon typically has vinyl for substantially less than some of the other online retailers. Is there a difference in quality? For example, Amazon has Tame Impala's Lonerism for $22.43 w/free shipping (link) while Merchbar has it for $35.54 marked down from 39.49 with 3.99 shipping (link). So what am I missing? I am on a mission to educate myself. |
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Vinyl
Feb 17, 2021 12:20:38 GMT -6
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 17, 2021 12:20:38 GMT -6
I’m not a vinyl expert by any means but there are frequently different pressings of vinyl albums, especially if you’re talking old stuff. Some are pressed on (what’s considered) higher quality 180 gram vinyl (vs 120/140 gram etc).
That might contribute to the price difference.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 17, 2021 12:30:06 GMT -6
I’m not a vinyl expert by any means but there are frequently different pressings of vinyl albums, especially if you’re talking old stuff. Some are pressed on (what’s considered) higher quality 180 gram vinyl (vs 120/140 gram etc). That might contribute to the price difference. Yeah, I thought of that. But I can't tell any difference from the descriptions. I've tried to education myself as much as I can. I know there is a difference between a reissue and a repress. Not sure what it is. Also, I read that 180 gram doesn't necessarily mean better quality. It depends on the pressing quality. Also, some records are repressed (reissued?) from the CD and not the master. And I read that 180 gram might not play back optimally because you might have to adjust the height of your player's arm to compensate for the thicker pressing?
Dude, this rabbit hole is deep.
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Vinyl
Feb 17, 2021 17:07:41 GMT -6
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 17, 2021 17:07:41 GMT -6
Haha, it is a deep rabbit hole, thats why I just stand in the shallow end...I could easily become obsessed and spend every last dollar on it. For Christmas I finally bought a new turntable, it’s a decent looking deck from Fluance. My old turntable had been broken for years and I finally got around to replacing it. But I’m very mindful not to start another obsession...got enough of those already.
As for the 180 gram thing...I “think” the main difference is that the record will last longer since it’s thicker. If all you were playing is 180 gram records than yes, I’d adjust the tone arm, pretty easy to do once you get used to it (providing you have a decent turntable). But most old stuff isn’t pressed on vinyl that thick. That being said I’ve never had an issue playing the occasional 180 gram record in a deck set for 120/140. I suppose over time though it would cause your needle to wear out faster and/or wear through the vinyl faster.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 17, 2021 18:32:40 GMT -6
There seems to be a consensus that 180G is really a sales thing, it doesn't contribute much of anything to anti-warping. 120 and 140 are perfectly fine.....proper storage is the BEST and the actual answer.
Any pressing of the same catalog # may be from a different cut, or from the same plates (worn?), or....a whole host of other variables. Anything old and major would have had multiple 'identical' cuts sent to multiple plants for plating, so an endless variety of quality. If you really want to go there with old records, you have to get into what's known/preferred about the scratched in markings in the runout groove, which tells who cut it and/or plated it.
I've been getting test pressings this year. Multiples of the same thing at the same time, different cuts/plates of the same master, etc. Sorry, IMHO vinyl sucks now. At best I get something that sounds reasonably like the master on most cuts, with generally fuzziness and distortion on the last track per side from inner diameter distortion. At worst there's gross distortion on vocal peaks, constant ticks and pops, EQ's that sound vastly different from intention. Literally the happiest I've been has been "this sounds acceptable". I recall back in the 80's if I bought a new LP and it had ANY surface noise or pops/clicks, I'd take it back and they'd happily swap it out until I was satisfied. EVERYTHING in the last decade or two is a noisy bitch, again consensus seems to be vinyl quality is not what it used to be, cutting blanks are not what they used to be. The lower the quality of your turntable, the LESS obvious this is....because your needle and arm are probably chewing up the record at a high rate anyway. The more revealing your needle and arm, the more you hear all the imperfections.....which leads to audiophiles who only listen to technological feats rather than music.
I have 20-22 linear feet of vinyl, 99.9% of which I bought pre-1990...none since that I thought sounded very good. I used to practically live in the record store. It's fun occasionally to have the tactile experience, mainly to have graphics to look at, but very rarely for me is it 'better' than a 320mbps mp3 coming off streaming. I'm spoiled now, I like 'masters', and a CD is frequently the closest thing when played through a quality converter. Anyway.....sorry, TMI.....off topic....hope the first bit helps......
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Post by ragan on Feb 17, 2021 18:32:43 GMT -6
I say don't worry too much about all the vinyl wonkery, just spin that plastic!  |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Feb 17, 2021 19:12:30 GMT -6
I was absolutely floored when I went down a Ry Cooder rabbit hole a few years ago and snatched up a bunch of his early records on eBay that were really clean.
The difference in sound between the record and the cd was astounding. I guess I was hearing the songs for the first time as they were intended.
The soundstage abs fidelity were out of this world. These are all the old school thinner pressings.
Same thing with some early Randy Newman records.
It’s a deep hole you’re gonna fall into haha. I’ve managed to just use the decent turntable I have plugged into some 70’s McIntosh gear with broken face glass that I picked up for stupid cheap that still sounds great!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2021 0:11:46 GMT -6
Tape degradation or loss for masters is a very real thing. Many older lp masters, if in good condition and not ruined on a Crowley, OEM, or USB turntable where the owner can’t set the tracking force, can be better than the cd masters for a ton of albums. Many old metal and jazz lps sound like entirely different productions than the cds and often those 80s CDs are the earliest source left. Then there is a ton of African and South American music that has no surviving tapes due to the environment. The CDs are often needle drops and for 30 to 100 bucks you can usually get a better condition LP than what the cd was made from unless it’s a rare title.
Current pressings suck and there is no reason to buy them. Also if the album had a digital intermediate like lots of early 80s onward records, there really isn’t any point. Lots of 90s-2000s stuff was “mastered” by mailing a promo CD to GZ. And today’s pressings are worse than that. Anything from the late 80s onwards, when CDs started being dithered, is usually better on CD.
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Post by christopher on Mar 18, 2021 16:50:11 GMT -6
I agree new vinyl is not great, but I found this on YouTube and what are your thoughts? Japanese pressing 2015??? I know very little of vinyl just that original stuff pre-1990 is usually great. Also I watch a lot of YouTube vinyl to see what the original mixes sound like. This was remix
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Post by dmo on Mar 18, 2021 21:25:45 GMT -6
Christopher, Not sure how to interpret the sound of vinyl from that video - was it a recording made in the room while the album was playing or a direct digital transfer (phono-pre to AD). It's a decent turntable - VPI with one of the JW memorial tonearms - but without knowing rest of reproduction chain hard to draw a solid conclusion. When I first listened on my ipad - really didn't sound very good IMO. After listening on the MBP - thinking it's a digital transfer, the tonal artifacts I initially heard must have been from the iPad. Not a song I'm very familiar with, so in the end can't comment on the impact (if any) of that specific vinyl release. I'm an old school vinyl guy myself - have kept all my vinyl over the years despite moving every 2-3 years (in storage when deployed or O'seas). Currently have about 2500 albums. Primary playback is VPI TNT hot rod - that's why I immediately recognized the table. (pic attached). I do feel there's something special with some of the older vinyl recordings - but maybe it's just a bias from growing up when vinyl was the primary medium. I have some newer releases as well - Tedeschi-Trucks, Warren Haynes, Grace Potter - they've all been decent pressings and sound fine to me. But I don't buy a lot of new vinyl so not sure if there's an issue with newer releases. One of my recommended sites is Music Direct if your looking for new vinyl - not the cheapest but usually very large inventory across most genres.
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ericn
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Vinyl
Mar 19, 2021 14:51:13 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Mar 19, 2021 14:51:13 GMT -6
Old Vinyl is a very different animal than modern vinyl. The first thing you notice in old vinyl is the lack of the digital/ protocols curtain. If it hasn’t been put through a DAW.
Here is what kills a hell of a lot of modern pressings, the ME not understanding cutting Vinyl, it’s not a set and forget medium, the sonics and capabilities change as you move inward. You have to know and understand the medium and the cutter, I’ll admit the few times I tried my hand in far from ideal far from State Of The Art settings I sucked. Couldn’t blame it on the gear because the real mastering eng always managed to make it sound good.
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Vinyl
Mar 19, 2021 20:27:50 GMT -6
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 19, 2021 20:27:50 GMT -6
I say don't worry too much about all the vinyl wonkery, just spin that plastic! YES! We're polar opposites on Jeff Lynn, but you are the only other person I know that owns Boston's Third Stage on vinyl! LOL. Bought that in high school with high expectations... but I still have the record. |
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Vinyl
Mar 19, 2021 21:23:12 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Mar 19, 2021 21:23:12 GMT -6
I say don't worry too much about all the vinyl wonkery, just spin that plastic! YES! We're polar opposites on Jeff Lynn, but you are the only other person I know that owns Boston's Third Stage on vinyl! LOL. Bought that in high school with high expectations... but I still have the record. No he’s not! |
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Post by ericn on Mar 19, 2021 21:32:24 GMT -6
I say don't worry too much about all the vinyl wonkery, just spin that plastic! Just tell me you don’t use that fireplace with all that Vinyl on the mantle! |
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Post by ragan on Mar 19, 2021 22:34:45 GMT -6
I say don't worry too much about all the vinyl wonkery, just spin that plastic! Just tell me you don’t use that fireplace with all that Vinyl on the mantle! It's funny, you're not the first person to say that. I use the hell out of the fireplace.  There is a lot of brick and fir between those records and the fire. It looks a little deceptive because that whole surround piece with the dental moulding isn't original to the house. This is a 100-year-old craftsman that had been all 70s/80s-d up and we've brought things back to (more like) original aesthetics over the years we've owned it. We found that mantel piece in a reclamation shop and then I built the cabinets around it to make it look at home (and to house speakers/turntable/etc). There's a lot more material there than you might think looking at it. It's not even slightly warm to the touch up by the vinyl when a fire is going. And it's a good thing, because sitting by the fire and spinning records is one of my very favorite things to do! |
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Vinyl
Mar 23, 2021 15:56:28 GMT -6
Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 23, 2021 15:56:28 GMT -6
The two biggest factors by far are tape deterioration and eliminating brick wall limiting.
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Vinyl
Apr 2, 2021 15:43:22 GMT -6
EmRR likes this
Post by popmann on Apr 2, 2021 15:43:22 GMT -6
I'm 42 and I just started getting serious about vinyl. Wondering if there is a difference in the quality of vinyl between different sellers? I always try and buy from my local record stores first, but I have a lot of catching up to do on my favorites. They don't always have what I'm looking for, and it gets expensive.
So, I've noticed that Amazon typically has vinyl for substantially less than some of the other online retailers. Is there a difference in quality? For example, Amazon has Tame Impala's Lonerism for $22.43 w/free shipping (link) while Merchbar has it for $35.54 marked down from 39.49 with 3.99 shipping (link). So what am I missing? I am on a mission to educate myself. You're missing that Amazon doesn't need to make money. It's the same stock/pressing. Merchbar isn't really a vendor so much as the label's "here's everything at list price" web portal. But, it's still true that if you buy from AcousticSounds or something--it will generally be more than Amazon. I'll be honest--while I see the argument for "supporting" the people who "kept vinyl alive"--also, fuck people that kept vinyl alive. Vinyl isn't the best delivery--so, will I buy it because it's better than CD? Yes. Will I pay a premium to people want to charge me return shipping because it was defective--a KNOWN fucking issues with vinyl, AND refuse to check the remaining stock to see if THOSE are also defective before sending my replacement? Did I mention they sat on the order for a WEEK even though I paid extra for expedited shipping on the original order? I buy local first...always. Then it's Amazon. All fucking day. Want to know what happens when they send a defective copy? I log in...spent MINUTES filing a need to return and printing a label--and my not defective replacement is here in two days. In fact, what I USUALLY do, since most are double albums now--and there's only one defect, is I wait and test the replacement--in case the OTHER record is the defect on THAT one...and I send them back a defective set while I keep a good one. If these "audiophile" places close? I don't care one little bit. Sell another $10k cartridge to a dentist to listen to Steely Dan. Maybe don't sell pop records. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 3, 2021 6:33:40 GMT -6
$10k cartridge?
Are you crazy? I don’t know any audiophile that would use anything under a $20k cartridge!
😂
I was listening to a podcast the other day with a well known audiophile talking about how great his $330,000 speakers sounded...
Wow.
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Vinyl
Apr 27, 2021 13:04:25 GMT -6
Post by pessoa on Apr 27, 2021 13:04:25 GMT -6
I use Ortofon OM 5E costing 70$ ha! I tried something more expensive a decade ago or so, but I found it to stiff sounding.
If I want some old album, I get an old pressing second hand rather than a new copy, as long as it isn’t some cult record with insane prices. The old full analog ones seems more alive, but I do have some nice sounding reissues as well. I do not need a mint jacket (and do not store in plastic) and I’ve found problems with skipping and noise to be rare. If somebody wrote their name on the sleeve etc. it is fine. You might not get a nice copy of the classics for 3$ these days though..
Might try to get the label use sombody else than GZ if I am put on vinyl again, but is there any good alternatives?
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Post by jjonyj001 on Sept 8, 2021 5:42:58 GMT -6
I agree that the new vinyl is not great
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Vinyl
Sept 15, 2021 10:01:24 GMT -6
Post by Ward on Sept 15, 2021 10:01:24 GMT -6
Every time I see this thread, I keep hoping that it's a post about HBO launching a second season of the TV series.
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There is a lot of brick and fir between those records and the fire. It looks a little deceptive because that whole surround piece with the dental moulding isn't original to the house. This is a 100-year-old craftsman that had been all 70s/80s-d up and we've brought things back to (more like) original aesthetics over the years we've owned it. We found that mantel piece in a reclamation shop and then I built the cabinets around it to make it look at home (and to house speakers/turntable/etc). There's a lot more material there than you might think looking at it. It's not even slightly warm to the touch up by the vinyl when a fire is going. 
