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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 16, 2021 13:16:25 GMT -6
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 16, 2021 13:45:08 GMT -6
Thank you for clearing that up and thank you for a concise, on topic response. I wasn’t aware there was more than one central data base for vax injuries. |
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Post by ragan on Sept 16, 2021 17:00:57 GMT -6
I think there is general exhaustion with all the invalid VAERS stuff because it's relied on so heavily in the Edgy Podcast Bro world of people who make their living hawking disinfo. If you get an email from your uncle and the subject starts with FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD:, there's a good chance there's a bunch of bollocks stuff about VAERS data in there. When your sister-in-law is ranting on Facebook about "THE REAL NUMBERS THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO SEE!!!!" it's almost invariably linked to more intentional misuse of VAERS. I mean, it's come up like 20 times in this very thread. Someone makes a claim of causality from VAERS to support their ideological point about the dangers of vaccination, 5 people re-explain what VAERS is, there's no like, "Oh, damn, I totally misunderstood that, ok", there's just a gap of a few weeks and then the same kind of invalid claim comes up again. I'm not necessarily talking about this recent stuff, just speaking about the spicy reactions to the continued misuse of VAERS in general.
I know some of you guys really are trying to have a good faith discussion about this stuff. I applaud it. It's important. This stuff is pulling hard at the societal seams right now and prolonging this godawful pandemic. Grifters are getting rich hawking stuff they know is B.S. and the rest of us get to live (or not) through the consequences. I've got two young kids in school/pre-school. It's a nightmare. They can't get vaccinated, remote learning sucks, this own-goal, voluntary 4th wave (or whatever it is) we're in has the variants du jour spreading everywhere and our kids' lives continue to be filled with disruption and inconsistency. My wife and I agonized over whether to send our little girl (4) to pre-school. Talked to our docs, talked to educators we know, talked to our parents...triangulated as best we could and decided to send her. We don't need the care for her, it's about her getting valuable socialization and learning to be in a school environment, learning to interact with peers, learning to interact with authority figures who aren't us or her grandparents. We're sending her for just a few hours, twice a week. The pre-school is staffed by nice people doing all that they can to create a safe environment for these kiddos. She's been to pre-school twice and, as of today, is in bed with a spiking fever, cough, sore throat, etc while we wait on covid test results. And meanwhile we've got friends and family members who are FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: - ing their asses off with bad faith lunacy and making sure that we stay in this damned pandemic for as long as possible.
Again, I know some of you really are trying to operate in good faith and share honest perspectives. I applaud it. I think its important (which is why I read along even when not wanting to post). You have a higher tolerance for rhetorical reruns than I do.
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Post by seawell on Sept 16, 2021 17:45:40 GMT -6
This is so funny, everyone playing linguistic gymnastics to justify attacking a pretty benign comment. No where in that comment did seawell say that the data in VAERs was all accurate or that they all represented legitimate vax injuries. Only that it’s the only source of data we have on it. You can nit pick over the language all you want but everyone is projecting their own biases here. If VAERs is a source of raw data, and if in that data is information about vax injuries, and if there’s no other data base that contains vax injuries, THEN (wait for it)…VAERs is the only source of data we have on vax injuries. It’s logic. Anything else anyone is inferring is just that…a projection of something that wasn’t said. Well...VAERS came up again when Bill (who I think is smart and nice) used it to calculate the risk of covid vs vaccine. Josh's comment made it sound like he was justifying the use of VAERS for this purpose. Maybe he wasn't after all, but that's why these comments are being made. Hey, long time no speak! 🤣. It was brought to my attention that my name still came up after I left. I'll try🤞🏼to further clarify in hopes the conversation can move forward. Vaers has come up on and off during this thread for months(if not over a year now). We've argued the merits of it every time and there has been incorrect information shared both for and against it(no need to rehash). Some people feel they have thoroughly fact checked vaers to where it should never be brought up again and honestly, I can understand why some have come to that conclusion. Others look at it, understand its limitations, yet still find it at the very least interesting...something to keep an eye on...and on some level relevant(I fall in this camp). The only point I was trying to make is that when someone like Bill has an interest in looking into data about adverse events, that is where they are going to end up so no one here should be surprised or angry when it happens. Sure, point out the limitations, discuss, rinse and repeat... but my point was, it is bound to keep happening so you shouldn't let it get under your skin. That's all, wasn't trying to argue the merits for or against, was just trying to give insight as to why it has... and in my opinion will continue to come up from time to time. Anyway, hopefully that clarifies the only point I was trying to make and we can put a bow on it ✌🏼 PS - @mattiaa, I'm aware of other internal tracking systems but is there another public database that is searchable by just an every day citizen that Bill could have used in his research? If so, I'd like to know about it, thanks. |
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Post by Quint on Sept 16, 2021 17:52:50 GMT -6
I think there is general exhaustion with all the invalid VAERS stuff because it's relied on so heavily in the Edgy Podcast Bro world of people who make their living hawking disinfo. If you get an email from your uncle and the subject starts with FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD:, there's a good chance there's a bunch of bollocks stuff about VAERS data in there. When your sister-in-law is ranting on Facebook about "THE REAL NUMBERS THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO SEE!!!!" it's almost invariably linked to more intentional misuse of VAERS. I mean, it's come up like 20 times in this very thread. Someone makes a claim of causality from VAERS to support their ideological point about the dangers of vaccination, 5 people re-explain what VAERS is, there's no like, "Oh, damn, I totally misunderstood that, ok", there's just a gap of a few weeks and then the same kind of invalid claim comes up again. I'm not necessarily talking about this recent stuff, just speaking about the spicy reactions to the continued misuse of VAERS in general. I know some of you guys really are trying to have a good faith discussion about this stuff. I applaud it. It's important. This stuff is pulling hard at the societal seams right now and prolonging this godawful pandemic. Grifters are getting rich hawking stuff they know is B.S. and the rest of us get to live (or not) through the consequences. I've got two young kids in school/pre-school. It's a nightmare. They can't get vaccinated, remote learning sucks, this own-goal, voluntary 4th wave (or whatever it is) we're in has the variants du jour spreading everywhere and our kids' lives continue to be filled with disruption and inconsistency. My wife and I agonized over whether to send our little girl (4) to pre-school. Talked to our docs, talked to educators we know, talked to our parents...triangulated as best we could and decided to send her. We don't need the care for her, it's about her getting valuable socialization and learning to be in a school environment, learning to interact with peers, learning to interact with authority figures who aren't us or her grandparents. We're sending her just a few hours, twice a week. The pre-school is staffed by nice people doing all that they can to create a safe environment for these kiddos. She's been to pre-school twice and, as of today, is in bed with a spiking fever, cough, runny nose, and we're waiting on the covid test results. And meanwhile we've got friends and family members who are FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: - ing their asses off with bad faith lunacy and making sure that we stay in this pandemic for as long as possible. Again, I know some of you really are trying to operate in good faith and share honest perspectives. I applaud it. I think its important (which is why I read along even when not wanting to post). You have a higher tolerance for rhetorical reruns than I do. Exhausting is an understatement. To have the tools (the vaccine) at our disposal to lick this virus, yet continue to wallow around in Covid purgatory because of a bunch of fear mongerers with ulterior motives, is just exasperating beyond belief. The longer this goes on, the higher the possibility becomes that the virus mutates into a variant that the vaccine is no longer effective against and/or is highly virulent. As much as our current situation sucks, that scenario really scares me. People need to get on board with the bigger picture. |
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Post by ragan on Sept 16, 2021 18:18:01 GMT -6
I think there is general exhaustion with all the invalid VAERS stuff because it's relied on so heavily in the Edgy Podcast Bro world of people who make their living hawking disinfo. If you get an email from your uncle and the subject starts with FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD:, there's a good chance there's a bunch of bollocks stuff about VAERS data in there. When your sister-in-law is ranting on Facebook about "THE REAL NUMBERS THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO SEE!!!!" it's almost invariably linked to more intentional misuse of VAERS. I mean, it's come up like 20 times in this very thread. Someone makes a claim of causality from VAERS to support their ideological point about the dangers of vaccination, 5 people re-explain what VAERS is, there's no like, "Oh, damn, I totally misunderstood that, ok", there's just a gap of a few weeks and then the same kind of invalid claim comes up again. I'm not necessarily talking about this recent stuff, just speaking about the spicy reactions to the continued misuse of VAERS in general. I know some of you guys really are trying to have a good faith discussion about this stuff. I applaud it. It's important. This stuff is pulling hard at the societal seams right now and prolonging this godawful pandemic. Grifters are getting rich hawking stuff they know is B.S. and the rest of us get to live (or not) through the consequences. I've got two young kids in school/pre-school. It's a nightmare. They can't get vaccinated, remote learning sucks, this own-goal, voluntary 4th wave (or whatever it is) we're in has the variants du jour spreading everywhere and our kids' lives continue to be filled with disruption and inconsistency. My wife and I agonized over whether to send our little girl (4) to pre-school. Talked to our docs, talked to educators we know, talked to our parents...triangulated as best we could and decided to send her. We don't need the care for her, it's about her getting valuable socialization and learning to be in a school environment, learning to interact with peers, learning to interact with authority figures who aren't us or her grandparents. We're sending her just a few hours, twice a week. The pre-school is staffed by nice people doing all that they can to create a safe environment for these kiddos. She's been to pre-school twice and, as of today, is in bed with a spiking fever, cough, runny nose, and we're waiting on the covid test results. And meanwhile we've got friends and family members who are FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: - ing their asses off with bad faith lunacy and making sure that we stay in this pandemic for as long as possible. Again, I know some of you really are trying to operate in good faith and share honest perspectives. I applaud it. I think its important (which is why I read along even when not wanting to post). You have a higher tolerance for rhetorical reruns than I do. Exhausting is an understatement. To have the tools (the vaccine) at our disposal to lick this virus, yet continue to wallow around in Covid purgatory because of a bunch of fear mongerers with ulterior motives, is just exasperating beyond belief. The longer this goes on, the higher the possibility becomes that the virus mutates into a variant that the vaccine is no longer effective against and/or is highly virulent. As much as our current situation sucks, that scenario really scares me. People need to get on board here with the bigger picture. I won't get into impugning peoples' personal motivations and the underlying psychology of why they're receptive to some of this stuff, because I simply can't know that and it's too personal and individualized. But it is, unfortunately, a fact that there is a booming industry of covid/vaccine disinformation that operates almost entirely on bad faith. Many of the powerful people at the top of these disinfo operations (looking at you Rupert, Tucker, DJT, etc) quietly get themselves vaccinated early on, and then, once they're protected, go on to make their money by frothing up their audiences with anti-expertise, anti-vaxx fervor, leaving it to the smaller fish to actually walk the walk. Here's a rundown on how some of those smaller fish have been doing the last few weeks: 8/4 - Farrel Austin Levitt, publicly known as Dick Farrel, a conservative radio host in Florida who vehemently criticized the coronavirus vaccine has died of “severe damage” caused by covid, Farley told The Washington Post. He was 65. 8/21 - Phil Valentine, a prominent conservative radio host in Tennessee who refused to get vaccinated, then urged his followers to get a shot after being hospitalized with Covid-19, has died, his station said on Saturday. 8/28 - Florida conservative talk radio show Marc Bernier, an outspoken opponent of masking and vaccines to combat Covid-19, died of Covid-19 8/28 - Caleb Wallace, the 30-year-old founder of a group called the San Angelo Freedom Defenders who protested against masks and business closures in Texas, died on Saturday of COVID-19. 9/13 - Conservative radio host Pastor Robert "Bob" Enyart of the radio show "Real Science Radio," who swore off Covid-19 vaccines, and who won a lawsuit against the state of Colorado over its Covid-19 restrictions has died from complications due to the virus, his co-host announced. I mean, at least they were consistent. Sure, they're endangering the lives of the people gullible enough to listen to them, and prolonging this whole godforsaken mess for the rest of us, but at least they practiced what they preached*. I have sympathy for the people who loved them. *except for the part where they ran straight to the Untrustworthy™️ In The Pocket Of Big Pharma™️ Corrupt™️ Elite™️ medical establishment (taking up beds that could be used by people who aren't making their money off of covid disinfo) when they actually got sick. |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 16, 2021 20:08:24 GMT -6
I think there is general exhaustion with all the invalid VAERS stuff because it's relied on so heavily in the Edgy Podcast Bro world of people who make their living hawking disinfo. If you get an email from your uncle and the subject starts with FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD:, there's a good chance there's a bunch of bollocks stuff about VAERS data in there. When your sister-in-law is ranting on Facebook about "THE REAL NUMBERS THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO SEE!!!!" it's almost invariably linked to more intentional misuse of VAERS. I mean, it's come up like 20 times in this very thread. Someone makes a claim of causality from VAERS to support their ideological point about the dangers of vaccination, 5 people re-explain what VAERS is, there's no like, "Oh, damn, I totally misunderstood that, ok", there's just a gap of a few weeks and then the same kind of invalid claim comes up again. I'm not necessarily talking about this recent stuff, just speaking about the spicy reactions to the continued misuse of VAERS in general. I know some of you guys really are trying to have a good faith discussion about this stuff. I applaud it. It's important. This stuff is pulling hard at the societal seams right now and prolonging this godawful pandemic. Grifters are getting rich hawking stuff they know is B.S. and the rest of us get to live (or not) through the consequences. I've got two young kids in school/pre-school. It's a nightmare. They can't get vaccinated, remote learning sucks, this own-goal, voluntary 4th wave (or whatever it is) we're in has the variants du jour spreading everywhere and our kids' lives continue to be filled with disruption and inconsistency. My wife and I agonized over whether to send our little girl (4) to pre-school. Talked to our docs, talked to educators we know, talked to our parents...triangulated as best we could and decided to send her. We don't need the care for her, it's about her getting valuable socialization and learning to be in a school environment, learning to interact with peers, learning to interact with authority figures who aren't us or her grandparents. We're sending her just a few hours, twice a week. The pre-school is staffed by nice people doing all that they can to create a safe environment for these kiddos. She's been to pre-school twice and, as of today, is in bed with a spiking fever, cough, runny nose, and we're waiting on the covid test results. And meanwhile we've got friends and family members who are FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: - ing their asses off with bad faith lunacy and making sure that we stay in this pandemic for as long as possible. Again, I know some of you really are trying to operate in good faith and share honest perspectives. I applaud it. I think its important (which is why I read along even when not wanting to post). You have a higher tolerance for rhetorical reruns than I do. Exhausting is an understatement. To have the tools (the vaccine) at our disposal to lick this virus, yet continue to wallow around in Covid purgatory because of a bunch of fear mongerers with ulterior motives, is just exasperating beyond belief.The longer this goes on, the higher the possibility becomes that the virus mutates into a variant that the vaccine is no longer effective against and/or is highly virulent. As much as our current situation sucks, that scenario really scares me. People need to get on board with the bigger picture. The thing that is most exasperating to me is this whole garbage take from the anti vax / covid conspiracy crowd that we're all somehow "sheeple" (🙄🤮the term itself is automatic disqualification for any hope of me taking you seriously...seriously, there's no possible way to sound dumber more quickly), while they happily suck at the teat of misinformation and make a bunch of hucksters rich at the expense of literally humanity. /rant |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 16, 2021 20:10:54 GMT -6
Exhausting is an understatement. To have the tools (the vaccine) at our disposal to lick this virus, yet continue to wallow around in Covid purgatory because of a bunch of fear mongerers with ulterior motives, is just exasperating beyond belief. The longer this goes on, the higher the possibility becomes that the virus mutates into a variant that the vaccine is no longer effective against and/or is highly virulent. As much as our current situation sucks, that scenario really scares me. People need to get on board here with the bigger picture. I won't get into impugning peoples' personal motivations and the underlying psychology of why they're receptive to some of this stuff, because I simply can't know that and it's too personal and individualized. But it is, unfortunately, a fact that there is a booming industry of covid/vaccine disinformation that operates almost entirely on bad faith. Many of the powerful people at the top of these disinfo operations (looking at you Rupert, DJT, etc) quietly get themselves vaccinated early on, and then, once they're protected, go on to make their money getting their audiences frothed up with anti-expertise, anti-vaxx fervor, leaving it to the smaller fish to actually walk the walk. Here's a rundown on how some of those smaller fish have been doing the last few weeks: 8/4 - Farrel Austin Levitt, publicly known as Dick Farrel, a conservative radio host in Florida who vehemently criticized the coronavirus vaccine has died of “severe damage” caused by covid, Farley told The Washington Post. He was 65. 8/21 - Phil Valentine, a prominent conservative radio host in Tennessee who refused to get vaccinated, then urged his followers to get a shot after being hospitalized with Covid-19, has died, his station said on Saturday. 8/28 - Florida conservative talk radio show Marc Bernier, an outspoken opponent of masking and vaccines to combat Covid-19, died of Covid-19 8/28 - Caleb Wallace, the 30-year-old founder of a group called the San Angelo Freedom Defenders who protested against masks and business closures in Texas, died on Saturday of COVID-19. 9/13 - Conservative radio host Pastor Robert "Bob" Enyart of the radio show "Real Science Radio," who swore off Covid-19 vaccines, and who won a lawsuit against the state of Colorado over its Covid-19 restrictions has died from complications due to the virus, his co-host announced. I mean, at least they were consistent. Sure, they're endangering the lives of the people gullible enough to listen to them, and prolonging this whole godforsaken mess for the rest of us, but at least they practiced what they preached*. I have sympathy for the people who loved them. *except for the part where they ran, terrified, to the Untrustworthy™️ In The Pocket Of Big Pharma™️ Corrupt™️ Elite™️ ICU docs (taking up beds that could be used by people who aren't making their money off of covid disinfo) when they actually got sick. Have you seen the subreddit about the herman cain freedom awards? It's a sobering (if not just a little schadenfreude-y) collection of this very, um, fishery. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 16, 2021 21:28:09 GMT -6
I won't get into impugning peoples' personal motivations and the underlying psychology of why they're receptive to some of this stuff, because I simply can't know that and it's too personal and individualized. But it is, unfortunately, a fact that there is a booming industry of covid/vaccine disinformation that operates almost entirely on bad faith. Many of the powerful people at the top of these disinfo operations (looking at you Rupert, DJT, etc) quietly get themselves vaccinated early on, and then, once they're protected, go on to make their money getting their audiences frothed up with anti-expertise, anti-vaxx fervor, leaving it to the smaller fish to actually walk the walk. Here's a rundown on how some of those smaller fish have been doing the last few weeks: 8/4 - Farrel Austin Levitt, publicly known as Dick Farrel, a conservative radio host in Florida who vehemently criticized the coronavirus vaccine has died of “severe damage” caused by covid, Farley told The Washington Post. He was 65. 8/21 - Phil Valentine, a prominent conservative radio host in Tennessee who refused to get vaccinated, then urged his followers to get a shot after being hospitalized with Covid-19, has died, his station said on Saturday. 8/28 - Florida conservative talk radio show Marc Bernier, an outspoken opponent of masking and vaccines to combat Covid-19, died of Covid-19 8/28 - Caleb Wallace, the 30-year-old founder of a group called the San Angelo Freedom Defenders who protested against masks and business closures in Texas, died on Saturday of COVID-19. 9/13 - Conservative radio host Pastor Robert "Bob" Enyart of the radio show "Real Science Radio," who swore off Covid-19 vaccines, and who won a lawsuit against the state of Colorado over its Covid-19 restrictions has died from complications due to the virus, his co-host announced. I mean, at least they were consistent. Sure, they're endangering the lives of the people gullible enough to listen to them, and prolonging this whole godforsaken mess for the rest of us, but at least they practiced what they preached*. I have sympathy for the people who loved them. *except for the part where they ran, terrified, to the Untrustworthy™️ In The Pocket Of Big Pharma™️ Corrupt™️ Elite™️ ICU docs (taking up beds that could be used by people who aren't making their money off of covid disinfo) when they actually got sick. Have you seen the subreddit about the herman cain freedom awards? It's a sobering (if not just a little schadenfreude-y) collection of this very, um, fishery. That’s disgusting. Not to mention the fact Hermain Cain died 6 months before a vaccine was even available. What a gross thing to do, dehumanizing people like that. |
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Post by Quint on Sept 16, 2021 21:28:57 GMT -6
I won't get into impugning peoples' personal motivations and the underlying psychology of why they're receptive to some of this stuff, because I simply can't know that and it's too personal and individualized. But it is, unfortunately, a fact that there is a booming industry of covid/vaccine disinformation that operates almost entirely on bad faith. Many of the powerful people at the top of these disinfo operations (looking at you Rupert, DJT, etc) quietly get themselves vaccinated early on, and then, once they're protected, go on to make their money getting their audiences frothed up with anti-expertise, anti-vaxx fervor, leaving it to the smaller fish to actually walk the walk. Here's a rundown on how some of those smaller fish have been doing the last few weeks: 8/4 - Farrel Austin Levitt, publicly known as Dick Farrel, a conservative radio host in Florida who vehemently criticized the coronavirus vaccine has died of “severe damage” caused by covid, Farley told The Washington Post. He was 65. 8/21 - Phil Valentine, a prominent conservative radio host in Tennessee who refused to get vaccinated, then urged his followers to get a shot after being hospitalized with Covid-19, has died, his station said on Saturday. 8/28 - Florida conservative talk radio show Marc Bernier, an outspoken opponent of masking and vaccines to combat Covid-19, died of Covid-19 8/28 - Caleb Wallace, the 30-year-old founder of a group called the San Angelo Freedom Defenders who protested against masks and business closures in Texas, died on Saturday of COVID-19. 9/13 - Conservative radio host Pastor Robert "Bob" Enyart of the radio show "Real Science Radio," who swore off Covid-19 vaccines, and who won a lawsuit against the state of Colorado over its Covid-19 restrictions has died from complications due to the virus, his co-host announced. I mean, at least they were consistent. Sure, they're endangering the lives of the people gullible enough to listen to them, and prolonging this whole godforsaken mess for the rest of us, but at least they practiced what they preached*. I have sympathy for the people who loved them. *except for the part where they ran, terrified, to the Untrustworthy™️ In The Pocket Of Big Pharma™️ Corrupt™️ Elite™️ ICU docs (taking up beds that could be used by people who aren't making their money off of covid disinfo) when they actually got sick. Have you seen the subreddit about the herman cain freedom awards? It's a sobering (if not just a little schadenfreude-y) collection of this very, um, fishery. I generally stay away from Reddit, so I hadn't heard of the Herman Cain awards but, after doing a quick search, I did have a couple of observations. Rogan apparently threw the "kitchen sink" at Covid, once he contracted it, so now we get to deal with more inconclusive theories about which treatment actually worked, if any. I appreciate the irony in the fact that Rogan used to host the Fear Factor. I don't need to explain further... |
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Post by seawell on Sept 16, 2021 21:33:36 GMT -6
Have you seen the subreddit about the herman cain freedom awards? It's a sobering (if not just a little schadenfreude-y) collection of this very, um, fishery. I generally stay away from Reddit, so I hadn't heard of the Herman Cain awards but, after doing a quick search, I did have a couple of observations. He apparently threw the "kitchen sink" at Covid, once he contracted it, so now we get to deal with more inconclusive theories about which treatment actually worked, if any. I also enjoy the fact that he used to host the Fear Factor. I don't need to explain further... He also has by far the most popular podcast in the world for what it's worth. He has since spoken a bit more about his experience and said he felt like monoclonal antibodies made the biggest difference for him. |
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Post by ehrenebbage on Sept 16, 2021 21:39:38 GMT -6
Well...VAERS came up again when Bill (who I think is smart and nice) used it to calculate the risk of covid vs vaccine. Josh's comment made it sound like he was justifying the use of VAERS for this purpose. Maybe he wasn't after all, but that's why these comments are being made. when someone like Bill has an interest in looking into data about adverse events, that is where they are going to end up so no one here should be surprised or angry when it happens. To be extra clear, there was an assertion that the danger of covid is basically the same as the vaccine. It's that sort of 'hey, I ran the numbers and it turns out that this whole thing is a wash' comment that spreads like wildfire. When I see comments like that I feel compelled to point out some facts to slow the spread, so to speak. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 16, 2021 21:40:49 GMT -6
when someone like Bill has an interest in looking into data about adverse events, that is where they are going to end up so no one here should be surprised or angry when it happens. To be extra clear, there was an assertion that the danger of covid is basically the same as the vaccine. It's that sort of 'hey, I ran the numbers and it turns out that this whole thing is a wash' comment that spreads like wildfire. When I see comments like that I feel compelled to point out some facts to slow the spread, so to speak. Which I’m totally fine with and I understand why you would feel compelled to do so. No issue there at all. |
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Post by Quint on Sept 16, 2021 21:46:45 GMT -6
I generally stay away from Reddit, so I hadn't heard of the Herman Cain awards but, after doing a quick search, I did have a couple of observations. He apparently threw the "kitchen sink" at Covid, once he contracted it, so now we get to deal with more inconclusive theories about which treatment actually worked, if any. I also enjoy the fact that he used to host the Fear Factor. I don't need to explain further... He also has by far the most popular podcast in the world for what it's worth. He has since spoken a bit more about his experience and said he felt like monoclonal antibodies made the biggest difference for him. I'm happy that he (and you) feel that monoclonal antibodies worked. From what I hear, they seem to have promise and I hope they turn out to be an effective treatment for the general public, provided the general public can afford them. As for being a popular podcaster, I'm not sure what your point is or why that matters. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 16, 2021 21:57:06 GMT -6
He also has by far the most popular podcast in the world for what it's worth. He has since spoken a bit more about his experience and said he felt like monoclonal antibodies made the biggest difference for him. I'm happy that he (and you) feel that monoclonal antibodies worked. From what I hear, they seem to have promise and I hope they turn out to be an effective treatment for the general public, provided the general public can afford them. As for being a popular podcaster, I'm not sure what your point is or why that matters. I thought you'd be happy to know the one thing he mentioned that stood out is the one thing with FDA approval....as opposed to him touting the fact that he took ivermectin. You must have missed it but Fauci was touting monoclonal antibodies a couple of weeks ago, the government bought up a ton of it and it is offered to the public for free. That's a good thing no? |
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Post by Quint on Sept 16, 2021 22:02:02 GMT -6
when someone like Bill has an interest in looking into data about adverse events, that is where they are going to end up so no one here should be surprised or angry when it happens. To be extra clear, there was an assertion that the danger of covid is basically the same as the vaccine. It's that sort of 'hey, I ran the numbers and it turns out that this whole thing is a wash' comment that spreads like wildfire. When I see comments like that I feel compelled to point out some facts to slow the spread, so to speak. And to add to that, Seawell, I do have a problem with the "I'll start fires but not stick around to see what else burns down around it" posturing that you tend to do. This is classic, Tucker Carlson, "I'm just asking questions" bluster that doesn't actually do anything other than provide confirmation bias and stoke fear. You can't continue to post videos and opinions that you find "interesting" and then claim that you you're an impartial observer. At some point you have to put up or shut up and back these things up with actual facts. |
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Post by ragan on Sept 16, 2021 22:09:19 GMT -6
To be extra clear, there was an assertion that the danger of covid is basically the same as the vaccine. It's that sort of 'hey, I ran the numbers and it turns out that this whole thing is a wash' comment that spreads like wildfire. When I see comments like that I feel compelled to point out some facts to slow the spread, so to speak. And to add to that, Seawell, I do have a problem with the "I'll start fires but not stick around to see what else burns down around it" posturing that you tend to do. This is classic, Tucker Carlson, "I'm just asking questions" bluster that doesn't actually do anything other than provide confirmation bias and stoke fear. You can't continue to post videos and opinions that you find "interesting" and then claim that you you're an impartial observer. At some point you have to put up or shut up and back these things up with actual facts. I don't understand this aggressive stance towards Josh. I don't care if he's truly "center" or not, I think he tries to communicate respectfully and I appreciate it. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 16, 2021 22:17:30 GMT -6
To be extra clear, there was an assertion that the danger of covid is basically the same as the vaccine. It's that sort of 'hey, I ran the numbers and it turns out that this whole thing is a wash' comment that spreads like wildfire. When I see comments like that I feel compelled to point out some facts to slow the spread, so to speak. And to add to that, Seawell, I do have a problem with the "I'll start fires but not stick around to see what else burns down around it" posturing that you tend to do. This is classic, Tucker Carlson, "I'm just asking questions" bluster that doesn't actually do anything than other than provide confirmation bias and stoke fear. You can't continue to post videos and opinions that you find "interesting" and then claim that you you're an impartial observer. At some point you have to put up or shut up and back these things up with actual facts. This is the perfect example of the problem here. Ehren and I just had a nice, cordial interaction that wrapped up that particular issue nicely I thought. Why use that as an opportunity to stir up more shit? The only current problem is that you have decided you don't like me and you're taking every single thing I post as a chance to take a shot at me. You don't like my style, fine. You'd rather that I have more of your worldview but I don't. That's what makes the world go round. I'm open about the fact that I am trying my best to be open minded and learn through the scariest and worst thing I've ever been through(I'm sure the same can be said for us all). I have been an open book in this thread sharing everything from my horrific medical history to my very dear friend that died of covid in march of 2020. With all due respect you're crossing the line and ADDING to every single thing I post. That's the problem. All this talk about what was stirred up over my vaers post is complete BS. The people that were mad at me(yourself included) weren't mad at that post, you were mad at my posts about hypocrisy I perceive on the left. How do I know that? If it was really about vaers you would have went after Bill the same way. He was the one making the calculation using vaers data, not me. I figured he was going to catch all kinds of hell for it so I added my side note in hopes of cooling things down before they got stirred up....boy did I get that one wrong. So there's my ulterior motive, I like Bill and I hoped to help a bit on that one. PS- I can't stand Tucker Carlson so I probably resent that more than anything you said LOL. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 16, 2021 22:29:03 GMT -6
And to add to that, Seawell, I do have a problem with the "I'll start fires but not stick around to see what else burns down around it" posturing that you tend to do. This is classic, Tucker Carlson, "I'm just asking questions" bluster that doesn't actually do anything other than provide confirmation bias and stoke fear. You can't continue to post videos and opinions that you find "interesting" and then claim that you you're an impartial observer. At some point you have to put up or shut up and back these things up with actual facts. I don't understand this aggressive stance towards Josh. I don't care if he's truly "center" or not, I think he tries to communicate respectfully and I appreciate it. The "center" issue with me is odd. I guess center to me is the fact that I've voted for dems, repubs and independents. In other words it's easy to say you're "center" and then vote for the same party every time haha. Anyway, if I need to put "right wing nut job" in my signature to make this thread go smoother I will  By they way, just saw your post earlier and I'm sending lots of love and prayers your way for your kids. I have two young kids myself and just went through the same thing a week ago(turned out to just be a cold thankfully). It so hard to know what's best to do. Anyway, wishing you the best, keep us posted. |
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Post by ragan on Sept 16, 2021 22:42:49 GMT -6
I don't understand this aggressive stance towards Josh. I don't care if he's truly "center" or not, I think he tries to communicate respectfully and I appreciate it. The "center" issue with me is odd. I guess center to me is the fact that I've voted for dems, repubs and independents. In other words it's easy to say you're "center" and then vote for the same party every time haha. Anyway, if I need to put "right wing nut job" in my signature to make this thread go smoother I will By they way, just saw your post earlier and I'm sending lots of love and prayers your way for your kids. I have two young kids myself and just went through the same thing a week ago(turned out to just be a cold thankfully). It so hard to know what's best to do. Anyway, wishing you the best, keep us posted. I personally don't give a flying rat's arse about right, left, or center (unless I'm mixing guitars, drums, and bass  ), I just care about people acting on good faith and making an effort to be intellectually consistent and generally honest, with themselves and with others. If that stuff is in place, everything else will sort itself out, in my experience. And thank you for the well wishes re: the kids. Same to you my friend. It's not an easy time for parents. I know that whatever my little girl's got tonight probably isn't covid. And even if it is, she'll probably be ok. But there are cases everywhere, and as a parent you're sweating bullets until you know it's ok (as I know you know). |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 17, 2021 0:07:31 GMT -6
Have you seen the subreddit about the herman cain freedom awards? It's a sobering (if not just a little schadenfreude-y) collection of this very, um, fishery. That’s disgusting. Not to mention the fact Hermain Cain died 6 months before a vaccine was even available. What a gross thing to do, dehumanizing people like that. To be honest, I think it actually does a rather excellent job of adding a bunch of human faces and stories to the death toll covid is creating. If you can get past the usual to-be-expected internet snark (tbf, a tall order, i'll admit), there's actually something rather poignant about it imo. It's too easy for people to assume it's the anonymous "others" that die, or to not even consider the individual stories of loss when pondering the 670,000 (and counting) dead. For me, that subreddit is actually a rather humanizing and gut-wrenching read, even if, yes, i think a lot of the folks featured there were assholes. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 17, 2021 0:09:47 GMT -6
The "center" issue with me is odd. I guess center to me is the fact that I've voted for dems, repubs and independents. In other words it's easy to say you're "center" and then vote for the same party every time haha. Anyway, if I need to put "right wing nut job" in my signature to make this thread go smoother I will By they way, just saw your post earlier and I'm sending lots of love and prayers your way for your kids. I have two young kids myself and just went through the same thing a week ago(turned out to just be a cold thankfully). It so hard to know what's best to do. Anyway, wishing you the best, keep us posted. I personally don't give a flying rat's arse about right, left, or center (unless I'm mixing guitars, drums, and bass ), I just care about people acting on good faith and making an effort to be intellectually consistent and generally honest, with themselves and with others. If that stuff is in place, everything else will sort itself out, in my experience. And thank you for the well wishes re: the kids. Same to you my friend. It's not an easy time for parents. I know that whatever my little girl's got tonight probably isn't covid. And even if it is, she'll probably be ok. But there are cases everywhere, and as a parent you're sweating bullets until you know it's ok (as I know you know). My kids are in their second week of school. This week, I’ve gotten the second notice that a student in their school has Covid. No notifications that my kids were close contacts, but still a mega bummer. Luckily, children still seem to be pretty resilient. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 17, 2021 8:02:22 GMT -6
To be extra clear, there was an assertion that the danger of covid is basically the same as the vaccine. It's that sort of 'hey, I ran the numbers and it turns out that this whole thing is a wash' comment that spreads like wildfire. When I see comments like that I feel compelled to point out some facts to slow the spread, so to speak. And to add to that, Seawell, I do have a problem with the "I'll start fires but not stick around to see what else burns down around it" posturing that you tend to do. This is classic, Tucker Carlson, "I'm just asking questions" bluster that doesn't actually do anything other than provide confirmation bias and stoke fear. You can't continue to post videos and opinions that you find "interesting" and then claim that you you're an impartial observer. At some point you have to put up or shut up and back these things up with actual facts. Its your comments in particular that have prompted me to stick up for Seawell…you keep attacking his very reasonable posts. He’s not some random internet troll. Any honest reading of his comments on this 50+ page thread should earn him the benefit of the doubt. It seems like you just keep projecting your biases on him and inferring things that he didn’t say from his posts. All of his posts seem to be made in good faith, ime, I can’t say the same for yours. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 17, 2021 9:44:40 GMT -6
That’s disgusting. Not to mention the fact Hermain Cain died 6 months before a vaccine was even available. What a gross thing to do, dehumanizing people like that. To be honest, I think it actually does a rather excellent job of adding a bunch of human faces and stories to the death toll covid is creating. If you can get past the usual to-be-expected internet snark (tbf, a tall order, i'll admit), there's actually something rather poignant about it imo. It's too easy for people to assume it's the anonymous "others" that die, or to not even consider the individual stories of loss when pondering the 670,000 (and counting) dead. For me, that subreddit is actually a rather humanizing and gut-wrenching read, even if, yes, i think a lot of the folks featured there were assholes. I just think they could do better. If they want to do social media recon, they could gather a bunch of pics in a way that honors them without mocking. I don't think a single person will come across that and be motivated to change their mind, in fact they'll probably double down the other way out of anger. Not the smart thing to do, but it's human nature. So, case in point: Herman Cain. Even if you disagree with him politically, he actually lived a pretty impressive life. Most people would be surprised to find out that he had a master's degree in computer science. He made a poor choice about one particular issue that ended up costing him his life unfortunately, but he was no fool and I hate to see him or anyone else treated that way when they are no longer around to defend themselves. I'm concerned, if not down right scared of where we're going as a nation(the division). In other words, if we allow the unvaccinated to be demonized and dehumanized now then it's just going to be another group in another situation next and it just goes on and on. Even if they were very anti-mask, anti-everything....even if they believe 5G caused the whole thing, they are still a human being that loved and had people that loved them. Very few people in this world are what I would consider "evil." Most people, I find, are the product of different levels of pain and trauma, doing the best they can. People can and do change and I just think positive education and motivation are the much better tools than shame and hate. |
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 17, 2021 9:48:20 GMT -6
I agree. Everything, *everything* is so politicized now it's almost impossible to find out what the truth is. Media is bad, social media is bad, it's all confirmation bias loops and active disinformation. Its depressing.
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), I just care about people acting on good faith and making an effort to be intellectually consistent and generally honest, with themselves and with others. If that stuff is in place, everything else will sort itself out, in my experience. 
