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Post by ehrenebbage on Sept 11, 2021 11:41:46 GMT -6
When was the last time we were in a global pandemic? Why would we require proof of polio, tb, or mmr shots in a restaurant when A) we're not in a pandemic, and B) almost every American citizen has been required to be immunized at some point already? Here's a list of immunizations required for travel to/from certain places in the world. Again, none of this is new. www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdfThe scope of this is indeed new. You say as much by asking “when was the last time we were in a global pandemic”. The scale at which things happen matters. You’re free to disagree, clearly you do. When was the last time a titer wasn’t acceptable as proof of immunity?when was the last time your entire lively hood could be stripped away from you for not getting vaccinated against a disease you already have immunity to? You may see these things as reasonable, and as “nothing new”. I don’t. Regarding that WHO list, I just breezed through it but can you point me to the page where it says you can’t travel to a western country without a MMR, TB vax or etc? Because I’ve traveled to Europe in the past and I never had to show vax status to anyone. And to keep things in context, that list was specific to Yellow Fever and Malaria which are regional diseases. So it’s similar but not the same. Can you offer a practical solution to the natural immunity issue? Has anybody proposed an actionable, reliable plan for this? If there were an actual proposal being made I'd probably support it. I'm generally in favor of the fewest interventions possible. No, there's no page where it says you can't travel to a western country without proof of MMR and TB vax. Why? Because western countries have almost completely eliminated the risk via logical policies of mandated vaccination. Why would proof be required when there's almost no disease and everyone has already been required to be vaccinated? If we get to a similar place with covid, where there is little risk of deadly illness and the majority of the population has been required to vaccinate, I'd expect that there will be no need to show proof on an airplane. So, where is proof of vaccination required? Nearly every public school and university, the military, and many workplaces. |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 11, 2021 11:47:06 GMT -6
Even for smallpox, previous infection/natural immunity was accepted…that’s the key difference you’re missing here in my opinion. If they would include natural immunity in the current mandates, 90% of this storm would go away. No way would that clear 90%. For the Rs, this is as much a political exercise as it is anything: they are much better positioned at midterms and in 2024 by driving home the message that the Ds response to covid is an existential threat (be it to liberty, health, or whatever else sticks). The goalposts have been moved so many times now that I would fully expect more pivoting, so long as the takeaway message is “the Ds are blowing it”. Reasonable folks like you might feel satisfied at an acceptance of natural immunity (and indeed I fully expect that will happen, once we have a better handle on the virus by way of vaccinations), but it won’t change the messaging and the obfuscation, which is the thing that is *actually* powering the storm. |
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Post by ehrenebbage on Sept 11, 2021 11:52:32 GMT -6
Even for smallpox, previous infection/natural immunity was accepted…that’s the key difference you’re missing here in my opinion. If they would include natural immunity in the current mandates, 90% of this storm would go away. I can't find anything about the smallpox exemption in those days. Would you mind linking me to some info? Either way, my understanding is that natural smallpox immunity was well understood before a vaccine was developed. We don't have the same understanding of this disease just yet. Again, if there were a practical and reliable way to track and exempt people who truly have natural immunity, I'd be all for it. Every governor has the authority to put a natural immunity plan in place if it were practical to do so. It would be a massive bureaucratic challenge and would likely create more confusion and chaos than states can handle at the moment. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 11, 2021 12:08:42 GMT -6
The scope of this is indeed new. You say as much by asking “when was the last time we were in a global pandemic”. The scale at which things happen matters. You’re free to disagree, clearly you do. When was the last time a titer wasn’t acceptable as proof of immunity?when was the last time your entire lively hood could be stripped away from you for not getting vaccinated against a disease you already have immunity to? You may see these things as reasonable, and as “nothing new”. I don’t. Regarding that WHO list, I just breezed through it but can you point me to the page where it says you can’t travel to a western country without a MMR, TB vax or etc? Because I’ve traveled to Europe in the past and I never had to show vax status to anyone. And to keep things in context, that list was specific to Yellow Fever and Malaria which are regional diseases. So it’s similar but not the same. Can you offer a practical solution to the natural immunity issue? Has anybody proposed an actionable, reliable plan for this? If there were an actual proposal being made I'd probably support it. I'm generally in favor of the fewest interventions possible. No, there's no page where it says you can't travel to a western country without proof of MMR and TB vax. Why? Because western countries have almost completely eliminated the risk via logical policies of mandated vaccination. Why would proof be required when there's almost no disease and everyone has already been required to be vaccinated? If we get to a similar place with covid, where there is little risk of deadly illness and the majority of the population has been required to vaccinate, I'd expect that there will be no need to show proof on an airplane. So, where is proof of vaccination required? Nearly every public school and university, the military, and many workplaces. Every patient has access to their medical records. A submitted diagnosis of prior Covid infection could easily be submitted as an exemption. There are also antibody tests, which are admittedly problematic, but that’s also a partial solution. It could be said that Covid itself presents “little risk of deadly illness”. It depends how you define “little risk”. That’s not exactly my personal stance but it’s a valid argument to consider. Serious question here that you might know the answer to. Was there ever a time that TB or Polio or MMR vaccines were required to travel across borders in western countries? Because those used to be pandemics as well. I honestly don’t know the answer but am interested in the answer. As for plane travel, no disrespect intended, but I think it’s a little naive to think that there isn’t a high probability of them requiring vax status to fly. |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 11, 2021 12:11:50 GMT -6
There’s a story making rounds today about a guy in AL dying from heart issues after 43 hospitals turned him away due to a lack of icu beds from covid patients. 🤬
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 11, 2021 12:15:24 GMT -6
Even for smallpox, previous infection/natural immunity was accepted…that’s the key difference you’re missing here in my opinion. If they would include natural immunity in the current mandates, 90% of this storm would go away. I can't find anything about the smallpox exemption in those days. Would you mind linking me to some info? Either way, my understanding is that natural smallpox immunity was well understood before a vaccine was developed. We don't have the same understanding of this disease just yet. Again, if there were a practical and reliable way to track and exempt people who truly have natural immunity, I'd be all for it. Every governor has the authority to put a natural immunity plan in place if it were practical to do so. It would be a massive bureaucratic challenge and would likely create more confusion and chaos than states can handle at the moment. Mandates are already a massive bureaucratic challenge, with lots of confusion and chaos |
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 11, 2021 12:16:43 GMT -6
There’s a story making rounds today about a guy in AL dying from heart issues after 43 hospitals turned him away due to a lack of icu beds from covid patients. 🤬 Id be highly suspicious of that claim. 43 Hospitals? That doesn’t sound right and I’m the first to admit that non Covid patients have suffered due to lack of resources. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 11, 2021 12:28:11 GMT -6
Benny and Ehren, my dudes...I appreciate you both, I hope you know that by now as we've had many back and forths that always end well. I know I have the distinct advantage of hanging out in the middle and slinging' mud at both sides but I honestly think you guys have got to get out of this left vs right mindset. The majority of my friends that aren't vaccinated are from the health and wellness world. Most are dems or libertarians. At least half are atheists. In other words, my real life is not lining up with what you guys are saying at all. I can't tell you how many liberal friends I have that feel politically homeless over the past year. It's not a bunch of "patriots" or whatever keeps being said...I have no idea how that has become a negative word, but I digress. Anyway, just wanted to put that out there.
Does there have to be a bad guy or an enemy here? Would it not be much more effective to hold leaders accountable as opposed to placing all the blame on citizens? 90 0r 95% vaccination rate or whatever is being said needs to happen now is NEVER going to happen. I think you can get to 70-75% and 20% natural immunity but that would require giving natural immunity proper credit. Without it, there are a lot of very intelligent people that are having a hard time accepting that science.
I don't know what hillbilly caricatures liberal media is putting out there as the boogeyman but as someone that lives in the south, I'm just telling you that is not what's happening in my neck of the woods. There is a completely logical argument for previously infected people to not get vaccinated so when that is just brushed aside it creates more distrust. Improve the messaging from the top down and this all goes so much better. "Our patience is wearing thin" is a recipe for disaster. We'll get through this pandemic one way or another but the long term effects of this governmental overreach is going to be felt for a long, long time.
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Post by dmo on Sept 11, 2021 12:51:03 GMT -6
There’s a story making rounds today about a guy in AL dying from heart issues after 43 hospitals turned him away due to a lack of icu beds from covid patients. 🤬 Id be highly suspicious of that claim. 43 Hospitals? That doesn’t sound right and I’m the first to admit that non Covid patients have suffered due to lack of resources. I haven't heard that specific claim but there are many documented delays in transfers and transfers across multiple states trying to find beds from my EM group. A lot of regional variation but the south has been hit hard (Texas in particular). My corner of the PNW running about 20% positives in testing over the last week and our numbers are up to almost 150 pts/12h day - so we're busier now that at any time since this started. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 11, 2021 13:02:22 GMT -6
Id be highly suspicious of that claim. 43 Hospitals? That doesn’t sound right and I’m the first to admit that non Covid patients have suffered due to lack of resources. I haven't heard that specific claim but there are many documented delays in transfers and transfers across multiple states trying to find beds from my EM group. A lot of regional variation but the south has been hit hard (Texas in particular). My corner of the PNW running about 20% positives in testing over the last week and our numbers are up to almost 150 pts/12h day - so we're busier now that at any time since this started. Dont get me wrong, not denying the stretch of resources. I work in the PNW too and see it first hand everyday. And at my level, respiratory therapy, we’re busier than we’ve ever been in the entire pandemic. I’m just a little a suspicious of a claim like that given some of the other sensational headlines I’ve seen that turned out to be false or misleading. |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 11, 2021 13:06:39 GMT -6
Would it not be much more effective to hold leaders accountable as opposed to placing all the blame on citizens? If this is in response to my post about R messaging vis a vis the upcoming elections, that is precisely what I am doing. The 'bad guy' in that particular scenario is a political class (this includes media) seeking electoral advantage over the good of the republic. In that case, it is very much both a political AND a left v. right issue. As for the citizenry, I am of the mind that they are absolutely deserving of blame. You can't talk about freedom and personal choice on one hand, and then blame leadership on the other. People are making bad choices, and it's affecting the country and the world. THAT is not entirely a left/right issue, obviously. But to suggest it's anywhere near the 50/50 split you appear to be making it out to be is totally disingenuous, or just flat out misinformed. And! For the record, I very much appreciate you too! It's tough to know how my written tone comes across here in this thread, but rest assured, I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually gotten angry at anyone here, and in those cases, I make an effort to simply not post a reply. I don't feel any hostility incoming or outgoing round here <3 |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 11, 2021 13:12:02 GMT -6
www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/local/2021/09/10/cullman-al-man-dies-hospitals-full-icus-turn-away-covid/8272754002/"In Alabama, there were 60 more patients than there were ICUs as of Thursday. Over half were positive with COVID-19, according to USA Today—a deadly example of the Delta variant’s rise." Looks like he actually died in Mississippi, not AL, because that was the nearest hospital he could get into. 200 miles away. I get the skepticism, and I share it to a large degree, but nothing about this story strikes me as particularly fishy. It's not like there are links to a go fund me or something, and it was widely reported in local media before it went national. I guess time will tell?
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Post by dmo on Sept 11, 2021 13:17:00 GMT -6
I haven't heard that specific claim but there are many documented delays in transfers and transfers across multiple states trying to find beds from my EM group. A lot of regional variation but the south has been hit hard (Texas in particular). My corner of the PNW running about 20% positives in testing over the last week and our numbers are up to almost 150 pts/12h day - so we're busier now that at any time since this started. Dont get me wrong, not denying the stretch of resources. I work in the PNW too and see it first hand everyday. And at my level, respiratory therapy, we’re busier than we’ve ever been in the entire pandemic. I’m just a little a suspicious of a claim like that given some of the other sensational headlines I’ve seen that turned out to be false or misleading. Totally concur with healthy skepticism, accurate information is very hard to find and most articles seem written to support positions/biases. Know you're busting ass at work like the rest of us - stay safe |
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Post by M57 on Sept 11, 2021 13:21:50 GMT -6
I don't know what hillbilly caricatures liberal media is putting out there as the boogeyman but as someone that lives in the south, I'm just telling you that is not what's happening in my neck of the woods. There is a completely logical argument for previously infected people to not get vaccinated so when that is just brushed aside it creates more distrust. Improve the messaging from the top down and this all goes so much better. "Our patience is wearing thin" is a recipe for disaster. We'll get through this pandemic one way or another but the long term effects of this governmental overreach is going to be felt for a long, long time. ..or underreach. If predictions are right, minimally hundreds of thousands are likely to die with the current strain out. It's too early to know, and we may never find out because whatever happens, one side will blame the other for the outcome. Regarding distrust, your anecdotal evidence may be right about the "previously infected" argument, but there is definitely a partisan differential where anti-vaxxer's are concerned. tinyurl.com/dv7wrvmb (fivethirtyeight.com) The article was careful to point out the distinction between beliefs about vaccine-safety (not partisan) and an actual anti-vax stance, where the politically charged argument of "choice" comes into play. It did however mention to a lesser degree that the more extreme your political stance, left or right, the more likely you are to be anti-vax. It's interesting to note that most of the data was gathered pre-Covid. |
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Post by seawell on Sept 11, 2021 13:21:59 GMT -6
Would it not be much more effective to hold leaders accountable as opposed to placing all the blame on citizens? If this is in response to my post about R messaging vis a vis the upcoming elections, that is precisely what I am doing. The 'bad guy' in that particular scenario is a political class (this includes media) seeking electoral advantage over the good of the republic. In that case, it is very much both a political AND a left v. right issue. As for the citizenry, I am of the mind that they are absolutely deserving of blame. You can't talk about freedom and personal choice on one hand, and then blame leadership on the other. People are making bad choices, and it's affecting the country and the world. THAT is not entirely a left/right issue, obviously. But to suggest it's anywhere near the 50/50 split you appear to be making it out to be is totally disingenuous, or just flat out misinformed. And! For the record, I very much appreciate you too! It's tough to know how my written tone comes across here in this thread, but rest assured, I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually gotten angry at anyone here, and in those cases, I make an effort to simply not post a reply. I don't feel any hostility incoming or outgoing round here <3 All I can share is what I'm seeing in my own life. If that split doesn't match up with certain media outlets then I don't know what to tell you. I think it's better to hear from actual people that are choosing not to get vaccinated(like myself) than be told what you should believe about them. With my natural immunity I do not believe I am putting anyone at a greater risk. If I did for a second, I would get vaccinated. If I am presented with evidence that changes my mind, I will get vaccinate but no amount of shame or coercion is going to make me get vaccinated. If you're interested in a solution, find out why people aren't getting vaccinated and if they are wrong, educated them. Demonizing never..ever works. Providing a method for accepting past infection/natural immunity would be a much needed olive branch at the moment. Why they aren't doing that is beyond me. Add on top of that, the mandates don't extend to postal workers and congress and their staffs and I just don't think you can blame people for being skeptical. Even if you still choose to blame them, you're going to get nowhere with that approach. I would like for this to all be over just as much as my vaccinated friends  |
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Post by bgrotto on Sept 11, 2021 13:37:57 GMT -6
It's not about the split matching with certain media outlets. It's about matching with reality. If we can agree that unvaccinated / never-had-covid people pose a health and economic risk to this country (and it seems that we can), then the next step is finding a solution. But if we're worrying about whose personal realities best align with a media narrative, we will never identify the problem in order to solve it. It's a simple fact that there is one end of the partisan spectrum that is multitudes more vaccine hesitant, and that side's political leadership and media are leading the charge to keep it that way.
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Post by seawell on Sept 11, 2021 13:44:34 GMT -6
I don't know what hillbilly caricatures liberal media is putting out there as the boogeyman but as someone that lives in the south, I'm just telling you that is not what's happening in my neck of the woods. There is a completely logical argument for previously infected people to not get vaccinated so when that is just brushed aside it creates more distrust. Improve the messaging from the top down and this all goes so much better. "Our patience is wearing thin" is a recipe for disaster. We'll get through this pandemic one way or another but the long term effects of this governmental overreach is going to be felt for a long, long time. ..or underreach. If predictions are right, minimally hundreds of thousands are likely to die with the current strain out. It's too early to know, and we may never find out because whatever happens, one side will blame the other for the outcome. Regarding distrust, your anecdotal evidence may be right about the "previously infected" argument, but there is definitely a partisan differential where anti-vaxxer's are concerned. tinyurl.com/dv7wrvmb (fivethirtyeight.com) The article was careful to point out the distinction between beliefs about vaccine-safety (not partisan) and an actual anti-vax stance, where the politically charged argument of "choice" comes into play. It did however mention to a lesser degree that the more extreme your political stance, left or right, the more likely you are to be anti-vax. It's interesting to note that most of the data was gathered pre-Covid. Thanks for the 538 link, I always appreciate the attention to detail those guys put in their work. I did laugh that the article about repubs started out talking to a libertarian and then talked about measles outbreaks amongst wealthy liberal communities ...hehe. As far as it being an underreach, what more would you have them do? Sure, you could go door to door and hold people down to vaccinate them but what's the long term cost of that? Like it or not, people that we don't agree with are here to stay and the way we treat them(no matter the circumstance) is still important because one day people you disagree with are going to be in a position of power and it will come back to bite you in the ass. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 11, 2021 14:02:52 GMT -6
If hospitals are being over-run (and I'm not saying they are not, although my local ones are not) - then WHY is there not a push to TREAT THE DISEASE BEFORE you need hospitalization? Doctors are not being encouraged by the powers that be to get involved early.
Even after a year and a half of this BS, my doc's take on what to do? Go home, take tylenol, and go to the hospital if your lips turn blue or if you feel like you have run a marathon by walking across the room.
Sorry, that is INSANE. That is one instance where I will not be taking my Dr's advice. I'm heading to the nearest monoclonal antibody treatment center the instant I get a positive test. Providing that something better hasn't popped up in the meantime.
Dr's need to get more pro-active on this before people need hospitals.
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Post by dmo on Sept 11, 2021 15:59:55 GMT -6
CDC has actively encouraged monoclonal therapy for those meeting the inclusion criteria, but I suspect it is still being underutilized. I've been referring those that meet inclusion criteria for the last few weeks. If anyone you know needs access, here's the link that shows the locations of current infusion centers:
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Post by ehrenebbage on Sept 11, 2021 17:41:14 GMT -6
Can’t respond at length at the moment, but I want to make it clear, again, that my frustration is mostly with the politicians and media figures who are spreading disinformation for their own gain.
Every politician and media personality works in their own interest. In this case, the folks I take issue with are doing so in a way that is not aligned with the best interest of our country, generally speaking. Those people are mostly on the right side of the political spectrum, although not exclusively so. I’ve taken a lot of issue with Bret Weinstein et al, for example.
For all of the talk about messaging, I’m not seeing very many criticisms of people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who go around praising communities for their low vaccination rates, Or massive conservative media figures doing everything they can to cast doubt every step of the way.
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Post by dmo on Sept 11, 2021 18:24:55 GMT -6
If hospitals are being over-run (and I'm not saying they are not, although my local ones are not) - then WHY is there not a push to TREAT THE DISEASE BEFORE you need hospitalization? Doctors are not being encouraged by the powers that be to get involved early. Even after a year and a half of this BS, my doc's take on what to do? Go home, take tylenol, and go to the hospital if your lips turn blue or if you feel like you have run a marathon by walking across the room. Sorry, that is INSANE. That is one instance where I will not be taking my Dr's advice. I'm heading to the nearest monoclonal antibody treatment center the instant I get a positive test. Providing that something better hasn't popped up in the meantime. Dr's need to get more pro-active on this before people need hospitals. Okay - I'll apologize in advance as I'm sure my response is not what you want to hear - but I can't let this one pass without comment. Doctors do try to be involved early and are being pro-active - via promoting prevention through vaccination. Now vaccination isn't 100% effective, but the risk reduction is significant and proven. Per the AMA, 95% of US physicians are vaccinated, so most of us believe this is right answer at this time.
A large number of patients are admitted on presentation, so "treating" prior to hospitalization isn't always a viable option. I agree that if you test positive and meet current inclusion criteria - the best answer for now is monoclonal antibody infusion.
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Post by seawell on Sept 11, 2021 18:29:19 GMT -6
Can’t respond at length at the moment, but I want to make it clear, again, that my frustration is mostly with the politicians and media figures who are spreading disinformation for their own gain. Every politician and media personality works in their own interest. In this case, the folks I take issue with are doing so in a way that is not aligned with the best interest of our country, generally speaking. Those people are mostly on the right side of the political spectrum, although not exclusively so. I’ve taken a lot of issue with Bret Weinstein et al, for example. For all of the talk about messaging, I’m not seeing very many criticisms of people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who go around praising communities for their low vaccination rates, Or massive conservative media figures doing everything they can to cast doubt every step of the way. I guess if I listened to those people I would be more upset but I have no idea what Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying any more than I know what AOC is saying. It's the Tucker Carlson/Rachel Maddow thing again, two sides of the same coin, neither of which I'm interested in. I continue to criticize the messaging of those that are actually in charge of something, the President(45 & 46), CDC directior, WHO director, surgeon general...Fauci! Those are the people I need to send a clear message. I couldn't care less about what the fringes are saying. They are fringe for a reason. If it feels like my criticisms are skewed towards the left at the moment the only thing I can say is that is who is in power. I hadn't found this wonderful thread yet when 45 was in office or I could have gotten some shots in |
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Post by drbill on Sept 11, 2021 19:16:17 GMT -6
If hospitals are being over-run (and I'm not saying they are not, although my local ones are not) - then WHY is there not a push to TREAT THE DISEASE BEFORE you need hospitalization? Doctors are not being encouraged by the powers that be to get involved early. Even after a year and a half of this BS, my doc's take on what to do? Go home, take tylenol, and go to the hospital if your lips turn blue or if you feel like you have run a marathon by walking across the room. Sorry, that is INSANE. That is one instance where I will not be taking my Dr's advice. I'm heading to the nearest monoclonal antibody treatment center the instant I get a positive test. Providing that something better hasn't popped up in the meantime. Dr's need to get more pro-active on this before people need hospitals. Okay - I'll apologize in advance as I'm sure my response is not what you want to hear - but I can't let this one pass without comment. Doctors do try to be involved early and are being pro-active - via promoting prevention through vaccination. Now vaccination isn't 100% effective, but the risk reduction is significant and proven. Per the AMA, 95% of US physicians are vaccinated, so most of us believe this is right answer at this time.
A large number of patients are admitted on presentation, so "treating" prior to hospitalization isn't always a viable option. I agree that if you test positive and meet current inclusion criteria - the best answer for now is monoclonal antibody infusion.
Appreciate your link above!!!! Much thanks!! There is a LOT more doctors can (and some are) doing than to suggest vaccination and or staying at home and taking Tylenol - then checking yourself into the hospital when you feel like you're going to die and are sliding downhill quick. What if you can't be vaccinated and get sick? What if you've already been vaccinated and get sick? There are treatment regimen's that some pro-active doctors are taking on but the majority seem to be of the "get the vaccine, or stay at home and take Tylenol" mentality. Not sure why. That makes no sense to me. Getting the vaccine and/or going home and waiting until you need to be hospitalized is NOT treating the disease pro-actively on the front end of infection - which arguably is where you can get ahold of it and get out in front of hospitalization. Which if implemented actively will make things easier for those dedicated souls like yourself who are slammed. With Delta slamming hospitals, unvaccinated, and vaccinated alike across the board, why not take advantage of ALL possible treatment options? Rhetorical questions by the way.... Again - thanks for the above link by the way! Much appreciated!!! |
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Post by dmo on Sept 11, 2021 20:12:31 GMT -6
drbill - you're welcome.
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Post by ehrenebbage on Sept 11, 2021 21:52:17 GMT -6
Can’t respond at length at the moment, but I want to make it clear, again, that my frustration is mostly with the politicians and media figures who are spreading disinformation for their own gain. Every politician and media personality works in their own interest. In this case, the folks I take issue with are doing so in a way that is not aligned with the best interest of our country, generally speaking. Those people are mostly on the right side of the political spectrum, although not exclusively so. I’ve taken a lot of issue with Bret Weinstein et al, for example. For all of the talk about messaging, I’m not seeing very many criticisms of people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who go around praising communities for their low vaccination rates, Or massive conservative media figures doing everything they can to cast doubt every step of the way. I guess if I listened to those people I would be more upset but I have no idea what Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying any more than I know what AOC is saying. It's the Tucker Carlson/Rachel Maddow thing again, two sides of the same coin, neither of which I'm interested in. I continue to criticize the messaging of those that are actually in charge of something, the President(45 & 46), CDC directior, WHO director, surgeon general...Fauci! Those are the people I need to send a clear message. I couldn't care less about what the fringes are saying. They are fringe for a reason. If it feels like my criticisms are skewed towards the left at the moment the only thing I can say is that is who is in power. I hadn't found this wonderful thread yet when 45 was in office or I could have gotten some shots in Well, I guess If you’re not aware of politics below the Presidential level it makes sense that you’re not sure why I might factor in the GOP messaging. They’re not exactly fringe...they’re congresspeople and governors with massive platforms. Fox is often the highest rated network and their influence is substantial. Conservatives absolutely dominate radio, and conservatives are the most widely shared political voices on social media. You may have legitimate gripes with the left, but the leadership of the left is totally united in the push to get people vaccinated. The right is finally coming around but there are still significant holdouts and they’re doing us a huge disservice. |
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