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Post by bgrotto on Aug 24, 2021 11:22:57 GMT -6
Well, i *am* genuinely curious what you feel is being under-reported about them, though. I recall the one guy catching flack last year for publicly saying in-person churching should wait till at least 2021 (or something similar?), and I think I've seen both their names come up from time to time as advocating and even preaching the importance of getting vaccinated (correct me if I'm wrong / misremembering). So what else would you have the media reporting about them? I appreciate you hearing me out on this. I guess my main gripe is that I think if CNN were actually interested in progress regarding the pandemic and not just further division then they would have featured the way more prominent leaders(Graham, Stanley) that were on board with a pro-vaxx message. Instead, they kept going back and forth with Greg Locke who has much less influence and would be considered fringe by most. They chose where to shine the spotlight and I get it, they don't have the cash cow that was 45 to drive ratings anymore but if they would just report the actual news I think it would be better for us all. In other words can we at least cut out the games and the b.s. during a pandemic? I understand that during the usual election cycles it's going to be all out war but you'd think over the past year and a half things in media would have changed for the better. Anyway...not to digress too far but I think they don't get it and are clinging to what's left of the old guard. It's why shows like Breaking Points(Krystal and Sagaar) are going independent and doing very well. I guess Tim Pool falls in that category too. Sure, they all have their biases too but they do at least seem to be trying to report actual facts and news and they also make corrections when they mess up. Gotcha, thanks for the elaboration. Is this Lock fellow getting traction anywhere besides CNN, or is he just their personal rightwing boogeyman du jour? I am not a consumer of CNN, and i haven't seen him mentioned elsewhere, but that doesn't mean much because I am not all that interested in editorial / punditry and tend to shy away from sites like those. Especially the mainstream ones. 😑 |
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Post by seawell on Aug 24, 2021 14:14:44 GMT -6
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Post by seawell on Aug 24, 2021 17:38:42 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Aug 24, 2021 21:18:06 GMT -6
Thanks Josh! Will check that out tomorrow. Wiped out right now.... Appreciate the tip. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 25, 2021 10:18:40 GMT -6
Thanks Josh - yes - looks very encouraging. I know that *De-Santis* has been setting up Regeneron infusion clinics around Florida. The stats that Fauci stated in your article seems to make it out as good if not better than the Vaccine itself in terms of keeping symptoms manageable and folks out of the hospitals....in respect to knowing now that efficacy of vaccines is waning over time. That's just my impression - not a fact based on studies, etc.. Fauci mentioned : "COVID-19 sufferers can reduce their risk of hospitalization and death by up to 85 percent if they receive monoclonal antibody treatments in the early stages of their illness, Dr. Anthony Fauci said Tuesday."Someone should get this info over to Israel right now. They need it with all their breakthrough cases. From my perspective, it's going to take more than just Vaccines to get us over things. Thankfully, it looks like there are treatment protocol's coming onboard that will help both vaccinated and unvaccinated. *De-Santis* has notably stated that Monoclonal Antibodies are working excellently with breakthrough Covid infections as well. It's going to take us all getting on one side against this mess - not finger pointing and silencing opposing science to get past this - whether it goes "against the narrative" or "with the narrative". I am unaware of any times where silencing opposing opinions have ever made things better in society. Let science sort it out over time. The truth will rise to the top. |
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 25, 2021 12:15:25 GMT -6
drbill and seawell - are these monoclonal antibody treatments similar (or the same) as the regeneron stuff the orange guy got? I recall there being much talk about the high cost and limited access to that stuff...are these MATs in a similar boat or will they be more accessible to the rabble?
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Post by seawell on Aug 25, 2021 12:32:00 GMT -6
drbill and seawell - are these monoclonal antibody treatments similar (or the same) as the regeneron stuff the orange guy got? I recall there being much talk about the high cost and limited access to that stuff...are these MATs in a similar boat or will they be more accessible to the rabble? I'm looking into it but yes I think it is the same and the government bought up a ton of it so if it can be distributed for free like they are doing in Florida then this could be huge(especially since it doesn't carry the controversy of HCQ or Ivermectin). |
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Post by ehrenebbage on Aug 25, 2021 12:49:21 GMT -6
Very interesting conversation:
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Post by drbill on Aug 25, 2021 14:03:31 GMT -6
drbill and seawell - are these monoclonal antibody treatments similar (or the same) as the regeneron stuff the orange guy got? I recall there being much talk about the high cost and limited access to that stuff...are these MATs in a similar boat or will they be more accessible to the rabble? From what I can tell, Regeneron - IS - the monoclonal antibody treatment. Don't know if there are other brands or not, but that's the one I keep hearing about. |
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 25, 2021 15:10:05 GMT -6
Gotcha, thanks fellas!
I saw that the gov had bought a bunch, but i wonder: how much is "a bunch"? And is it anywhere near enough, given the spikes in infections we're seeing. I also saw it was being very unevenly distributed, which raises all sorts of questions about accessibility. I don't exactly trust the government of the United States to not favor the rich and white, so I have some concerns about who will actually benefit from this.
Last, I wonder about the timeframe that it's effective. I'm reading that you need it before serious symptoms develop, which means we gotta stay on top of our collective testing, which is a situation I don't forsee happening (based on the last year and a half).
I'm glad to hear there are new, effective ways of treating Covid, though. THAT much is a relief. Hopefully the government won't botch it :/
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Post by drbill on Aug 25, 2021 15:25:18 GMT -6
I'm reading that you need it before serious symptoms develop, which means we gotta stay on top of our collective testing, which is a situation I don't forsee happening (based on the last year and a half). I'm going to break your rule and get early tested tomorrow.  Got a naggy, shallow cough. Felt like I had a fever, but didn't. Probably cause I was out riding motorcycles in the heat.... I get allergies every year now, and our yard is like a waist high mountain meadow with every kind of wildflower and weed you can think of. Wife wants me tested. So....off I go. If I got it, it's pretty mild at this point. If I'm positive, I'll be making an appt for some Regeneron! |
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Post by seawell on Aug 25, 2021 15:29:54 GMT -6
Gotcha, thanks fellas! I saw that the gov had bought a bunch, but i wonder: how much is "a bunch"? And is it anywhere near enough, given the spikes in infections we're seeing. I also saw it was being very unevenly distributed, which raises all sorts of questions about accessibility. I don't exactly trust the government of the United States to not favor the rich and white, so I have some concerns about who will actually benefit from this. Last, I wonder about the timeframe that it's effective. I'm reading that you need it before serious symptoms develop, which means we gotta stay on top of our collective testing, which is a situation I don't forsee happening (based on the last year and a half). I'm glad to hear there are new, effective ways of treating Covid, though. THAT much is a relief. Hopefully the government won't botch it :/ There was a stock pile of 1.5 million doses being worked on all the way back in January. Sounds like demand is going to be met so that's good - ""At this time, there is plenty of product available for existing and new sites," a spokesperson for HHS told CNN. "They are able to order product as needed and we are encouraging sites to order as much as they think they'll need, based on two-week utilization." Source: www.wcvb.com/article/us-has-seen-1200-percent-increase-for-monoclonal-antibodies-to-treat-covid-19/37306626#Hopefully the messaging gets out that it is most effective when treating early. So, if you test positive but aren't feeling too bad, go ahead and get your free treatment anyway. I could also see this being helpful for any breakthrough cases. |
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Post by ehrenebbage on Aug 25, 2021 15:38:05 GMT -6
I'm reading that you need it before serious symptoms develop, which means we gotta stay on top of our collective testing, which is a situation I don't forsee happening (based on the last year and a half). I'm going to break your rule and get early tested tomorrow. Got a naggy, shallow cough. Felt like I had a fever, but didn't. Probably cause I was out riding motorcycles in the heat.... I get allergies every year now, and our yard is like a waist high mountain meadow with every kind of wildflower and weed you can think of. Wife wants me tested. So....off I go. If I got it, it's pretty mild at this point. If I'm positive, I'll be making an appt for some Regeneron! Oh man...hoping for the best! |
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Post by seawell on Aug 25, 2021 15:42:22 GMT -6
I'm reading that you need it before serious symptoms develop, which means we gotta stay on top of our collective testing, which is a situation I don't forsee happening (based on the last year and a half). I'm going to break your rule and get early tested tomorrow. Got a naggy, shallow cough. Felt like I had a fever, but didn't. Probably cause I was out riding motorcycles in the heat.... I get allergies every year now, and our yard is like a waist high mountain meadow with every kind of wildflower and weed you can think of. Wife wants me tested. So....off I go. If I got it, it's pretty mild at this point. If I'm positive, I'll be making an appt for some Regeneron! 🙏🏼 |
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 25, 2021 15:54:28 GMT -6
I'm reading that you need it before serious symptoms develop, which means we gotta stay on top of our collective testing, which is a situation I don't forsee happening (based on the last year and a half). I'm going to break your rule and get early tested tomorrow. Got a naggy, shallow cough. Felt like I had a fever, but didn't. Probably cause I was out riding motorcycles in the heat.... I get allergies every year now, and our yard is like a waist high mountain meadow with every kind of wildflower and weed you can think of. Wife wants me tested. So....off I go. If I got it, it's pretty mild at this point. If I'm positive, I'll be making an appt for some Regeneron! Ack! Hope you're well! Glad to hear you're getting tested though. We had a breakthrough case at my studio a couple weeks ago and i had to do the test routine myself. Luckily, nobody else at the session got infected (thanks vaccines!), but man...these breakthrough cases are a motherfucker. Anywho...hope you're all good!! |
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Post by dmo on Aug 25, 2021 17:52:03 GMT -6
Again, while Rengeron has shown some potential benefit, more study/data is needed to determine if it's truly an effective "treatment" for Covid. If you look at the phase 3 trial, they look at 2 similar sized control groups who tested positive then randomized into treat (2 different strength doses) vs placebo - the hospitalization/adverse event percent was 1%/1.3% for Rengeron versus 3.2/4.6% placebo with total n of only 4.5k patients - so fairly small study. As the denominator (n) goes up that "70%" difference may shrink considerably. A key point is the majority in both groups had no significant events (1 reported death in each Rengeron group versus 5 in placebo) - so you need really large numbers to validate the results of this study. I would certainly support it's use under current guidance - but I don't think the data truly supports it yet as a option in lieu of vaccine. (90% plus risk reduction with n of 190 million vaccinated US data)
The other key point that isn't getting much media attention is that it is currently not recommended for more seriously ill patients - those requiring O2 support or hospitalized. It has actually been shown to potentially worsen outcomes in those cases. So it isn't a treatment for the sickest population, and I worry that many people will inappropriately think it can "treat" those who become seriously ill.
Stay safe out there
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Post by seawell on Aug 25, 2021 17:59:37 GMT -6
Right...early being the key! I think it's very welcomed good news especially with growing concerns about waning vaccine effectiveness past the 6 month mark. In other words if someone unvaccinated first starts feeling bad and tests positive, it's too late for a vaccine. In addition, someone vaccinated that has a symptomatic breakthrough case...too late for a booster at that point. I'm just glad there's something to offer and it sounds like Fauci is trying to get the news out about it particularly to medical professionals because it sounds like it is being underutilized. "It is important to emphasize that this must be done early in infection and not wait, of course, until a person is sick enough to be hospitalized,” Fauci said at a COVID-19 press briefing. “That’s when you get the best effect. And again, being an underutilized intervention, we want people out there, including physicians as well as potential patients, to realize the advantage of this very effective way of treating early infection.” “Bottom line is this is a very effective intervention for COVID-19. It is underutilized, and we recommend strongly that we utilize this to its fullest,” Fauci said. Link: nypost.com/2021/08/24/fauci-early-use-of-monoclonal-antibodies-can-reduce-hospitalization-death/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow |
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Post by dmo on Aug 25, 2021 18:30:14 GMT -6
Josh -
I think most of the medical community is aware, but there have been limited sites to obtain as it's an IV infusion (we don't have it at my shop and a lot of ER's are trying to avoid becoming infusion centers since they are already overwhelmed with the sicker end of the spectrum). So availability to the patient in the community may be part of the challenge.
Again, I hope this stands up over time and gives us something that really works but I remain cautious as the trial was fairly small. (spent too many years trying to teach residents how to critically read the literature to not always be somewhat skeptical)
Bill
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Post by seawell on Aug 25, 2021 18:39:37 GMT -6
Josh -
I think most of the medical community is aware, but there have been limited sites to obtain as it's an IV infusion (we don't have it at my shop and a lot of ER's are trying to avoid becoming infusion centers since they are already overwhelmed with the sicker end of the spectrum). So availability to the patient in the community may be part of the challenge.
Again, I hope this stands up over time and gives us something that really works but I remain cautious as the trial was fairly small. (spent too many years trying to teach residents how to critically read the literature to not always be somewhat skeptical)
Bill
I certainly defer to your experience and expertise in the area 👍🏼 Not trying to overstep my bounds at all, I was just surprised to hear it coming from Fauci. I'm sure you guys are tired of all the ups and downs of something hopeful that doesn't work out. THANK YOU for your dedication and service to us all during this time, we can't thank you guys enough! Hoping and praying for the best all around. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 25, 2021 19:26:44 GMT -6
Thx guys. I'm 98% sure I'm OK. Making my wife and skeptical Dr. feel better. If I've got it, all I can say is the vitamin regimen has paid off 10,000X's!!
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Post by matt@IAA on Aug 26, 2021 8:30:21 GMT -6
Very interesting conversation: I don't normally watch videos but this one was good. I think the call for nuance is so important in today's world. |
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 26, 2021 15:30:19 GMT -6
seawell I just came across that Locke fellow in my stable of news sites. Evidently, he is rather more popular than we realized: dude has (according to baptistnews.com) over 2.2M followers on facebook and tens of millions of views around social media sites, making his 100k twitter numbers look kinda measly by comparison. Anywho, seems he's been a bit of a web-based firebrand (and a favorite of evangelist righties) for about five years, ever since he had a viral video about Target's bathroom policy. So, not exactly just a 'small town minister', after all. Plus, he's got an amusingly-checkered past. That sort of explains CNN's fascination with him, to some degree. Anywho, just thought this might be of interest.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 26, 2021 16:07:26 GMT -6
Josh -
I think most of the medical community is aware, but there have been limited sites to obtain as it's an IV infusion (we don't have it at my shop and a lot of ER's are trying to avoid becoming infusion centers since they are already overwhelmed with the sicker end of the spectrum). So availability to the patient in the community may be part of the challenge.
Again, I hope this stands up over time and gives us something that really works but I remain cautious as the trial was fairly small. (spent too many years trying to teach residents how to critically read the literature to not always be somewhat skeptical)
Bill
It also seams to have a very narrow window of effect on those who can still be treated outpatient. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 26, 2021 16:16:17 GMT -6
Negative here!
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Post by seawell on Aug 26, 2021 16:42:33 GMT -6
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