Covid vsccine

Your herd immunity approach might work for you as an individual, but the collective impact of individual decisions is pushing our healthcare system to the very brink of collapse.  

Also, I am pro anything which might be helpful.  But I also recognize that we need to stop the bleeding and theoretical band aids aren't doing the trick.

*edit*

If prior infection is proven to be solid protection, I would be perfectly fine using that record in place of a vaccination where vaccines might be mandated.  We need to get through this quickly and I don't care how we do it.  I'm good with whatever works.

Fantastic!  Assuming this is correct, which I trust that it is, I'd support a record of a prior infection to serve in place of a vaccine where vaccines are mandated.  

I get that my posts might sound sanctimonious, but I don't consider myself to be morally superior to anyone.  I'm encouraging us to consider how our individual choices affect the people around us.  I get that people have different world views, different degrees of trust in institutions, different health circumstances, different experiences informing their decisions.  But in this moment we need to think beyond our own self interest as much as we can.

The questions is, can the crucial systems in our society support the collective impact of individual choices?  An individual wants to take the chance with the prior infection immunity approach?  Fine for them.  They'll probably be okay.  Tens of millions of people want to take the herd immunity risk?   Totally different.  Maybe a small percentage of people will be hospitalized and a smaller number will die, but a small percentage of tens of millions of people is a huge number.  Are our healthcare/education/economic systems robust enough to hold up under the weight of that?  What's the plan?

People overlook that it's not just deaths or even hospitalizations which impact our healthcare system.  My next door neighbor is a nurse practitioner at a local urgent care clinic.  For a year now, the vast majority of her time has been spent testing patients.  The massive flood of testing alone is impacting the availability and quality of care.  

I want to make it clear that I'm not intending for all of my ire to be directed at you : )  I appreciate the way you work through this conversation, and you seem to be trying to look for solutions.  My frustration is mostly with the people who are capitalizing on the misinformation economy.

Also, my opinion is that, while the unvaccinated are crushing our healthcare systems, everyone including vaccinated people should be thinking about what we can do to stop the bleeding.  If vaccinated folks are spreading the virus we need to take responsibility and adjust accordingly.  Some folks on my side of the debate may not care to look out for the unvaccinated, but at least look out for the people who are busting their butts to handle the crisis as well as people who are suffering through the collateral damage.   

They are not looking at the current efficacy, they are basing the authorization for the booster based on the project efficacy. These curves are not linear and it not only takes time for the booster to take full effect and get people to get the shots in arms.

I got my immuno Compromised booster on Tuesday and it kicked my ass, felt like I had been hit by a new Ford Bronco, I have been hit by a 2000’s Jetta this was worse till Friday afternoon.

If we're really serious about saving lives this is a conversation we're going to have to have as a nation once we put this behind us.  Preferably before we come up against whatever the next challenge turns out to be.  Less obese people should be a goal both parties can agree on.  I'm not sure there's a single thing we can do as a nation to help our healthcare system more.  

Right, but exactly who is the anti-vax crowd?  I was told it was republicans, then evangelicals, then particularly white evangelicals.  Then I found out how low the vaccination rate was in the black population and that messed that narrative all up.  In other words are you running into these morons on a daily basis or are you upset by what you're being told?

How many of the "anti-vaxxers" were just COVID vax hesitant, not anti-vax altogether?  How many are going to feel better about things and get the Pfizer shot today now that it has full FDA approval?  I bet a lot actually.  I can't help but feel like some of you guys are raging against a caricature that has been carefully crafted by a politically motivated media.  It's easier if there is an "enemy" or a "bad guy" to hate but very rarely in life have I found that to be the case.  

Case in point, what is someone going to do now that has an employer mandate that they get vaccinated but has a doctor advising them that they shouldn't?  There are some people that should not get this vaccine, that has somehow gotten lost in the conversation.  I personally know people in this exact predicament.  Who should they listen to?

All I'm trying to get across is that the people I know that haven't been vaccinated aren't not getting vaccinated for any of the reasons you're saying.  This whole situation is more nuanced than some want to believe and people have been making incredibly difficult decisions on almost a daily basis for a year and a half now.  I think 99.99% of people are doing the best they can.  Sure there are morons but they exist on all sides of the political spectrum.  

I still think the best place to channel any anger over all this is at the government(2020 and 2021 versions) and the FDA, CDC, WHO, NIH etc..  The messaging has been garbage so many times.  That is more to blame for hesitancy than anything else in my opinion.  They botched it terribly with masks right in the beginning and it has been an uphill battle ever since.  People intentionally spreading misinformation are the absolute worst but they were sure teed up a perfect scenario by the people in charge that were supposed to be better at their jobs than they turned out to be.  

Of course here is one little wrinkle with any antibody testing, the test themselves are not accurate, I mean 30% false positive untrustworthy.
No lab director worth a damn is ever going to look at the results of a level study and want their name anywhere near it.

I run into them and they fall all over the political spectrum.  I also recognize that the public figures who are anti vax, anti masks, anti distancing...basically anti every preventative measure, are largely playing to a conservative base.  This isn't media spin...they ARE the media figures, community leaders and politicians.

***With some prominent exceptions, like Bret Weinstein, RFK Jr., etc.

teejay all vaccines are covered by special legal protections. COVID had a certain carve-out, but all vaccine manufacturers get special coverage. You can't sue, there's a special vaccine court that handles cases. Otherwise we'd probably not have any vaccines at all.


www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html

I don't watch them either but they have massive, massive audiences.  Numerous conservative politicians, church leaders, etc. are going to great lengths to spread the word.  

Not entirely sure what you're asking re: majority vs minority.  Can you clarify?

My personal bubble is pretty diverse. I wouldn't pretend that my perspective is all encompassing, but I've lived and worked in a bunch of places and my friends and family are from all walks of life.  I can say that most of the anti vax stuff that shows up on my radar comes from my conservative friends and acquaintances, and they often share content straight from politicians and media figures.  
 

The ruling class have worked out how to divide the peasants for millenia by using their own idealogy against them via a combination of tribal bias confirmation and cognitive dissonance (fueled by media propaganda irrespective of any facts) in order to keep them trapped within their own opposing tribes and fixated on fighting against each other.

For instance throughout 2020 many political pundits staunchly advised against getting vaccinated because they distrusted anything promoted by a certain orange haired individual occupying the White House.

Fast forward to a change of government and several of those same pundits now state that anyone who is vaccine hesitant obviously must either be a pro orange man supporter, on the far right or a white supremacist/terrorist.

Pundits were not opposed to the orange guy's vaccine. The opposition and skepticism came in the wake of reports that the orange guy was pressuring premature approval so a vaccine would drop before election day.

I think you may be a victim of the very situation you are describing above.