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Post by M57 on Jan 18, 2021 15:16:43 GMT -6
I've got my home personal project studio pretty heavily treated, but there's still a substantial bump in the 195-225 range that, depending on the source, I always have surgically yank at. So that means, depending on the key of the song or the tuning of the instrument, the G 3 through A 3 range can get nasty. I hear this is pretty common for us home studio types. Of particular concern is the piano. I've got a ton of 2" panels on the walls and ceilings, which keep things dry and deadens the midrange and high end to my liking (I don't like the sound of drywall, and I'm happy to add verb sauce to create whatever space I like. My bass traps are 4" x 2' x 4" 703 panels that sit in the corners (and I've got a few more of them around the room as well. It's an 8-ceiling. but the room is pretty large. Any thoughts? I'm thinking I need more/better traps. Here's my current project for context ..a 1+1 sketch of a song I'm writing. I've got a pair of spaced SCDs about 10" above the felts. Feel free to ignore the pedal noise because I wasn't paying attention to it while recording. Normally, it's not as much of a problem; I can usually control it reasonably. EQs are all ITB. I've got a pretty deep notch at 210 and another wide Q at about 220 taking things down a few more db. I've got stuff going on in other ranges, and a Pultec in the chain ..but mostly for color, nothing dramatic. soundcloud.com/m57/curse-the-sunrise |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 18, 2021 17:00:03 GMT -6
My first reaction is that your 2” traps aren’t doing much in the 200hz area. 4-6” traps, spaced off the wall a few inches would work much better in that region. And I’d make the corner traps as deep as you reasonably can. Or back fill them with roxul safe n sound (or equivalent).
Beware though, traps that thick may suck out all the high end in your room making it sound boxy. You might have to cover some of your traps with craft paper, or wooden slats to retain more mids and highs.
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Post by M57 on Jan 18, 2021 17:45:09 GMT -6
My first reaction is that your 2” traps aren’t doing much in the 200hz area. 4-6” traps, spaced off the wall a few inches would work much better in that region. And I’d make the corner traps as deep as you reasonably can. Or back fill them with roxul safe n sound (or equivalent). Beware though, traps that thick may suck out all the high end in your room making it sound boxy. You might have to cover some of your traps with craft paper, or wooden slats to retain more mids and highs. Thanks. They are 4" traps (the wall and ceiling panels are 2"), but they are also "panels" and placed kitty-corner, so there is a fair amount of space behind them. I've always wondered if I should be looking to fill in those spaces. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 18, 2021 22:16:08 GMT -6
What are the room dimensions?
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Post by M57 on Jan 19, 2021 4:12:48 GMT -6
What are the room dimensions? It's the space above a garage.. L shaped because there's a bathroom built into one corner. Maybe 500 square feet. It has s gabled roof starting at about 4" from the floor on the long sides that slope 45 degrees to the ceiling resulting in a ~30' x 20' flat ceiling long ways. I actually think the resulting odd space is probably a good thing. I just found a pic from a year or so ago. You're looking at about 30% of the total area. The other 45 side is treated similarly.  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 19, 2021 4:26:39 GMT -6
Looks great, a simple possible fix would be proper stands and check placement of monitors to see how much you might be able to tame the area.
For mixing you don't mention using sonarworks which can help.
For recording solutions, super chunk corner traps would be much better, every 2-3 way wall joint is essentially another corner I see no soffit absorbers ?
I'd do the super chunk corners first, create space behind your 4 inch panels and you can recover them and under the material put in 6 ml vapour barrier say start with half of them as this still absorbs the mid and bass but reflects some of the high so not to dead.
A localized free problem sort of cries out for a helmholtz but as you likely there are differences of opinions about that.
If you have space at rear wall you could build a deep helmholtz absorber 10-12 inches and cover with wld slats with varying gaps tuned to the problematic freq range ?
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Post by Ward on Jan 19, 2021 6:19:50 GMT -6
Sometimes there's a simple solution. Once, in a medium sized live room, I had to use a rolling large carpet rolled up tightly, like a tube. placed against the back wall, it acted as a great bass trap and soaked up the 200hz and lower frequency offenders.
Look up Jeff Hedback of Hedback designs, send him an email and ask for a virtual consultation. The man knows his stuff.
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Post by M57 on Jan 19, 2021 6:32:39 GMT -6
Sometimes there's a simple solution. Once, in a medium sized live room, I had to use a rolling large carpet rolled up tightly, like a tube. placed against the back wall, it acted as a great bass trap and soaked up the 200hz and lower frequency offenders. Look up Jeff Hedback of Hedback designs, send him an email and ask for a virtual consultation. The man knows his stuff. It's funny you mentioned the rolled up carpet solution. I'm actually using it in the one full corner that's by the stairway. To do it in the other corners in this room I would need to find 4' wide carpets because their height will be restricted by the intruding gable. It's not a bad idea. Because the corners are blocked in by the baffles, I can put whatever I want behind them. I don't care what they look like. I just need some carpeting to cut up. Hmm.. Maybe I could talk the wife into replacing that one in the living room that she doesn't really care for. |
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Post by svart on Jan 19, 2021 8:32:05 GMT -6
200hz bump? Pretend you're recording to tape and just go with it.
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Post by Ward on Jan 19, 2021 8:33:12 GMT -6
Sometimes there's a simple solution. Once, in a medium sized live room, I had to use a rolling large carpet rolled up tightly, like a tube. placed against the back wall, it acted as a great bass trap and soaked up the 200hz and lower frequency offenders. Look up Jeff Hedback of Hedback designs, send him an email and ask for a virtual consultation. The man knows his stuff. It's funny you mentioned the rolled up carpet solution. I'm actually using it in the one full corner that's by the stairway. To do it in the other corners in this room I would need to find 4' wide carpets because their height will be restricted by the intruding gable. It's not a bad idea. Because the corners are blocked in by the baffles, I can put whatever I want behind them. I don't care what they look like. I just need some carpeting to cut up. Hmm.. Maybe I could talk the wife into replacing that one in the living room that she doesn't really care for. I meant laying down along the floor . . . but yes, as corner traps, a 4' high one could be quite effective. You can go to a carpet outlet place and buy 4' wide ends of rolls to make those out of. But I'm only taking a page out of someone else's songbook here.  Just email Jeff here: projects@hedbackdesignedacoustics.com |
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Post by M57 on Jan 19, 2021 13:18:10 GMT -6
Hah, I did that too.. on the wall opposite the piano. It's just a 6x8 but I figure every bit helps. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 19, 2021 13:50:33 GMT -6
Looking at those pics I’d suggest doing more with your ceiling cloud. I’ve worked in more than a few small rooms and in all of them the ceiling cloud made one of the biggest difference when applying absorption.
I’d try 6” traps suspended off the ceiling just a few inches. Could be a dramatic difference in your mix position.
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Post by M57 on Jan 19, 2021 16:50:52 GMT -6
Looking at those pics I’d suggest doing more with your ceiling cloud. I’d try 6” traps suspended off the ceiling just a few inches. Could be a dramatic difference in your mix position. Yeah, they're just 2" panels with wood backs (with two more on the other side), so I know they're not doing much of anything from the lower-mids on down. I hate to have to install big ol' honkin panels on the ceiling. I'm hoping more effective corner traps work. I'm pretty much a headphone mixer. Really, the main goal is to get good sounding recordings. Truth be told, my monitors are crap. They're M-Audio BX5's. So before I sink any more money into mix-related treatment, I'd be picking up a good pair of monitors. I've got the Focal Twins on my wish list. Still, I don't doubt that suspended traps would make a difference when recording too - I'm just thinking that taming bass in the corners should probably be a higher priority. Thanks for your suggestions Tbone81 . I'm definitely keeping them in my back pocket as I consider my options. |
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Post by hadaja on Jan 19, 2021 21:33:00 GMT -6
Just out of curiosity whats the black mic on the stand with the red pop screen?
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Post by M57 on Jan 20, 2021 5:41:18 GMT -6
Just out of curiosity whats the black mic on the stand with the red pop screen? Blackspade UM4X. It's the one I used on the vocal for the song linked in the first post of this thread. I didn't use a de-esser, but I'm a very sibilant singer, so with all of my vocals I go in and use clip gain on about 75% of the esses and other similar miscreant sibilances ..usually attenuating somewhere between 3 and 6 db. Oh, and it's not a pop-screen. It's just a cover. I never sing directly at the mic, so I don't use a screen. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Jan 23, 2021 13:06:18 GMT -6
Can I humbly suggest that this approach of buying monitors before treatment may be backwards? I had a pair of cheap Presonus Eris e5s that sounded better, and better, and better every single time that I added room treatment while working with the people at GIK Acoustics. I had some DIY panels that I had made and then started taking measurements using REW and sending them to the GIK folks. With each subsequent addition of treatment, they sounded better. Finally they said “go make music”. Then, when I upgraded to more pro line monitors, it really made a difference. Please don’t skimp on the room.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 25, 2021 9:30:31 GMT -6
Give Jeff Headback a shout, very reasonable prices for what you get.
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Post by mike on Mar 7, 2021 6:11:02 GMT -6
Which SDC's are you using for the Piano,....and what mic stand w boom are you using for your LDC vocal mic?
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Post by M57 on Mar 7, 2021 7:47:51 GMT -6
Which SDC's are you using for the Piano,....and what mic stand w boom are you using for your LDC vocal mic? AKG-C451 --> A Designs P1's on the piano , and an old reasonably heavy Atlas stand for the LDC, which sits directly on my beautiful fake floor ..no carpet. Other than stability, I never give much thought to stands - I've always just figured (especially in the case of the LDC) that a good suspension mic clip is what takes care of lower frequency issues. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 7, 2021 8:52:52 GMT -6
Hedback. Getting it right is peace of mind. I've got a SMALL 180Hz dip on the L side of my room, but other than that, it's ruler flat up to 20k. Amazing peace of mind. Jeff is the best and very reasonable.
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