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Post by popmann on Apr 11, 2014 15:54:23 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 11, 2014 16:08:42 GMT -6
HA! I wonder if I was the inspiration?
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 11, 2014 16:24:11 GMT -6
So - I'm not completely certain, but I believe my personal mic slave/ Shannon's handy work is all over this album...Maybe he can tell us about it. Thats pretty dang awesome...! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 11, 2014 16:24:55 GMT -6
( think I like my version better) I keed, I keed.  |
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Post by Shannon on Apr 12, 2014 1:08:25 GMT -6
So - I'm not completely certain, but I believe my personal mic slave/ Shannon's handy work is all over this album...Maybe he can tell us about it. Thats pretty dang awesome...! Yea I was blessed he asked for very special builds that I been working on (John M ) has The only ones I made like that they were built for her Album I do know that one of the U67 went with Niko Bolas to LA and he said he used it on Leeann Rymes and to Al Schmit the other various 4-6 Mics that were done are floating around except 1 that is locked up 251 for Martina |
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Post by littlesicily on Apr 13, 2014 9:34:15 GMT -6
Man, those are some smooth vocal sounds.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Apr 15, 2014 13:09:27 GMT -6
We talked to Rolf about that record when we were there. He said he could hear them mixing it through the walls and it sounded amazing even through the wall. Can't wait to hear it.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Apr 15, 2014 16:05:55 GMT -6
Listening to the previews on I-Tunes. Is it just me boys or am I hearing a buss compressor pulling her vocal down awful quick?? Almost pumps sometimes. I might just be an idot though. Probably the case. Anyway, that path they used to record her is to die for, daauumm. I can hear the spit in her mouth on some of the slow tunes. She's such a dynamic singer I'd bet my last penny it's torture trying to mix her to get the dynamic just right.
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Post by popmann on Apr 15, 2014 21:10:58 GMT -6
I've yet to listen to the digital version in more than passing background before you mentioned. It's DR7, so loud master. It doesn't match the vinyl at all--meaning digitally attenuating the (Amazon Autorip) mp3 to the same level as the vinyl is impossible because the dynamics are that different. Match in in one section--the next is off. So, they're obviously different masters. To get a vinyl master to those kinds of numbers...you have to make it's peak SO quiet that a surface crackle sounds like a snare drum--and believe me, I've gotten some of those.
Which is why I had to go out and buy a record player last year, which I haven't had since I was a kid. The masters aren't the same. When they are, vinyl SUCKS. It's the inferior format to 24/96 PCM or DSD...compared to CD--it's a matter of which set of flaws you prefer.
It makes the discussion of sample rates and formats for recording and delivery (not necessarily the same discussion)...cloudy. This vinyl sounds better. Not by a little. If I had a really nice turntable, I'd venture from experience with them, it would separate itself further...but...that doesn't mean the format of vinyl sounds better than...hell--would take a 256mp3 to vinyl given the same master (which is what the amazon is)...but, they're NOT the same master. Not the same content. I've found SACDs where the redbook layer is hit a DB or so harder into a limiter than the DSD. The format thing is mostly a nuance....but, the end result of the Eagles new 192 masters and the "mastered for iTunes" from the same session is akin to listening to a different recording. And those are better than the label "digital remastered" CDs available.
Anyway, I have tried to listen to the mp3 thrice now...and turned it off thrice before two songs. And, I really don't think that's simply me being a princess...I've been listening to some old vinyl I picked up this afternoon (and the Martina) for hours now. In fact, I just pulled up the mp3s to compare for you...and well...turned them off and let the side of the album finish.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 16, 2014 7:15:39 GMT -6
You're going to make me go buy a turntable...Can you get a cheap one that sounds ok?
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Post by henge on Apr 16, 2014 7:21:38 GMT -6
I've yet to listen to the digital version in more than passing background before you mentioned. It's DR7, so loud master. It doesn't match the vinyl at all--meaning digitally attenuating the (Amazon Autorip) mp3 to the same level as the vinyl is impossible because the dynamics are that different. Match in in one section--the next is off. So, they're obviously different masters. To get a vinyl master to those kinds of numbers...you have to make it's peak SO quiet that a surface crackle sounds like a snare drum--and believe me, I've gotten some of those. Which is why I had to go out and buy a record player last year, which I haven't had since I was a kid. The masters aren't the same. When they are, vinyl SUCKS. It's the inferior format to 24/96 PCM or DSD...compared to CD--it's a matter of which set of flaws you prefer. It makes the discussion of sample rates and formats for recording and delivery (not necessarily the same discussion)...cloudy. This vinyl sounds better. Not by a little. If I had a really nice turntable, I'd venture from experience with them, it would separate itself further...but...that doesn't mean the format of vinyl sounds better than...hell--would take a 256mp3 to vinyl given the same master (which is what the amazon is)...but, they're NOT the same master. Not the same content. I've found SACDs where the redbook layer is hit a DB or so harder into a limiter than the DSD. The format thing is mostly a nuance....but, the end result of the Eagles new 192 masters and the "mastered for iTunes" from the same session is akin to listening to a different recording. And those are better than the label "digital remastered" CDs available. Anyway, I have tried to listen to the mp3 thrice now...and turned it off thrice before two songs. And, I really don't think that's simply me being a princess...I've been listening to some old vinyl I picked up this afternoon (and the Martina) for hours now. In fact, I just pulled up the mp3s to compare for you...and well...turned them off and let the side of the album finish. Really!! It's that different? Wow, well I was going to get the cd but I may have to find myself a turntable... |
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Post by popmann on Apr 16, 2014 8:38:15 GMT -6
Well, the CD (which I have to assume the Autorip is from) sounds good by Nashville standards...very good. It's just mastered loud. I find that when you make a loud master, I turn it down....I turn it down, Im unmoved, I turn it off. I dislike having background music on.
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Post by popmann on Apr 16, 2014 8:59:07 GMT -6
You're going to make me go buy a turntable...Can you get a cheap one that sounds ok? To do it again, I wouldn't. I mean, it's nice on occassions where someone CARES and does it right, but too many of the modern vinyl is mastered as loud as the CD--so, it's just super noisy. Cheap=used refurb unit. New ones start about $400 and I didn't personally hear a difference until you got to the $2k tables...and of course, you need a preamp. If you have an old analog receiver it might have a good enough one...if you don't, you're paying $200-500 for one of those...No, you don't want a $120 new AudioTechnica with a USB out. Not if you're buying for sonics. There's a whole audience who loves collecting old vinyl....trading it....Cleaning it...that who that's for. Heres what you NEED....Rega RP6 w/Exact cartridge and a nice Manely passive RIAA EQ/preamp. Thatll lay the whoop down on any CD. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 16, 2014 13:59:50 GMT -6
Well shiite...I think I'll skip that, then! |
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Post by popmann on Apr 16, 2014 15:23:15 GMT -6
I would. And sorta did--I USE an old discrete HK with a built in preamp...and there's a guy around the corner who takes in old turntables and refurbs them--hooked me up with old heavy Technics DD from the 70s or 80s he'd gone over and replaced the cartridge. I'm considering a less bright cartridge, but...ehh...when I went and listened to the Regas and Projects--that was the deal, they start at $400....but, it's not until $2k or so I heard it surpass the CD--and honestly without the benefit of my Sabre DAC, which does dick for high rez, but makes CDs sound WAY better.
....but, it's also why digital is a better delivery format. And specifically SACD (DSD)....because a $125 Sony SACD player (which was sold as a DVD) sounded every bit as good as a $1300 "audiophile" SACD player and one of the salesmen at a hifi store claimed it was stupid because "it doesn't sound much better than my vinyl"...."much better"--so, to reword, for $125 someone can buy a player that sounds "slightly better" than you $7k turntable and tube preamp? I'll take that all day.
Not to mention that new vinyl pressings cost $20-40...and you can't get them locally, unless you like some hipster douche music they carry at Grimeys or something...
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Post by popmann on Apr 16, 2014 21:10:39 GMT -6
I ran across this today...obviously FAR from Martina's style...but, in the discussion of why vinyl sounds better--it's the master. Check out this RHCP thing--this is the difference not crushing a master makes.
THere's a track on the Martina that's acoustic guitar that leaps out of the speakers on the vinyl...where the mp3 (CD master)? Just sounds like a nice recording of an acoustic guitar. Of course, should John&Co care to release the DFF or PCM files that MADE the vinyl (I don't know if he's mixing back to PT or into a Korg DSD box), they'd kick the vinyl's ass, IME. But, for some reason, people seem hesitant to do that. Many 24/96 (and 24/88) masters are simply the same master as the CD, only presented prior to SRC and dither applied. So, they sound better, but it's nuance stuff--NOTHING you'd ever hear, per this example on a lousy YouTube video compression.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 18, 2014 12:50:22 GMT -6
Wow
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Post by popmann on Apr 18, 2014 14:49:13 GMT -6
Yeah--I thought that would get more "wows" honestly. It's SO night and day. I will admit that releasing DSD and 88.2 masters is audiophile subtlety....which I still think we should be doing...but, it IS a subtle thing, grand scheme--this ISN'T.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 18, 2014 15:35:03 GMT -6
Yeah--I thought that would get more "wows" honestly. It's SO night and day. I will admit that releasing DSD and 88.2 masters is audiophile subtlety....which I still think we should be doing...but, it IS a subtle thing, grand scheme--this ISN'T. i think it falls right in line with this realgearonline.com/post/11051/threadyour find is even more dramatic, the hilarious and tragic part is, i just turned up the v o l u m e knob, and it was louder and wholly better than the pancake lol smh.... |
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Post by formatcyes on Apr 18, 2014 16:14:18 GMT -6
Your youtube video highlights the problem (which we all know) but leaving aside us nerds knowing what can we do? The artists have to compete with everyone else. Its a race to the bottom. Sad because as your clip highlights music can be so much more. Almost need a new HD formate that's policed. "No sorry we think you are cheating on the dynamics" just don't think the market is big enough.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 18, 2014 16:41:37 GMT -6
Your youtube video highlights the problem (which we all know) but leaving aside us nerds knowing what can we do? The artists have to compete with everyone else. Its a race to the bottom. Sad because as your clip highlights music can be so much more. Almost need a new HD formate that's policed. "No sorry we think you are cheating on the dynamics" just don't think the market is big enough. R128, and A/85 are coming, and it will indeed make things better!(he says with hope in his heart), read this thread realgearonline.com/post/11051/thread |
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Post by popmann on Apr 18, 2014 17:19:24 GMT -6
Artist who feel the need to "compete" on loudness should be allowed to. Its a form of musical darwinism.
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