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Post by RicFoxx on Apr 6, 2014 10:08:33 GMT -6
Im really thinking about changing my system to a Burl Mothership as I love my Burl B2 and it's been a game changer for me.
With that being said Im setup now with the Apollo with the B2 into the SPDIF. Im running into a console. Im finding that with the outboard that I have acquired Im no longer interested in tracking with the plugs and Im using a lot less plugs in sessions to achieve the sound Im looking for. I track through a console so Im zero latency anyway.
Im thinking about selling the Apollo (with $4000 worth of plugs) and the B2 and moving to the Mothership with a Avid HD Native thunderbolt unit. I would start with 4 ins and 8 outs and build from there.
Anyone with experience using the unit with Logic X or regular Pro Tools 10 using it's core audio driver?
No doubt this will be a better sounding setup and I think it would hold it's value better as Im looking for a long term solution without always updating plugs and software.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2014 14:44:39 GMT -6
DO IT! (I might have an ulterior motive)  |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 6, 2014 15:05:32 GMT -6
Just playing the devils advocate, and making conversation, I have NOT tried these, but for the life of me, i do not understand why anyone would want to put a permanent transformer in front of a converter? You could buy state of the art, top of the line conversion for significantly less than the burl track for track, then buy a capi vp28 to represent every channel of your conversion, which imo posses the potential for amazing transformer/opamp goo, then you have the OPTION to go super clean if you desire, OR gooey beyond what the burl tranny's can provide..no? Once there is a tranny in line of AD conversion, there it is,....forever. I'm also slightly suspicious of burls ratio's on their transformers, you'd think they'd be 1:1, but they seem to be .5 db louder than their rivals, and we all know what that does, it's probably 1:1 and something as simple as a calibration issue though, thats one of the many reasons why i don't like internet shoot outs btw.
I don't doubt the burl sounds excellent, i question its versatility mostly, and why anyone would want LESS choice for that kind of Chee$e? Of course, as always, it's what ever floats your boat 8)
T
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2014 15:08:23 GMT -6
So, you're saying that scientifically, the Burls sound exactly the same? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 6, 2014 15:29:54 GMT -6
It is important to be aware of the burl signal path and how that is affecting what you put to tape
The b2 has control over how much you drive the transformer so it is not an absolute nor a point to point piece of wire.
Not certain if the mothership is the same
I have a bla modded Apollo had a 2192 and have a b2 and tb12 pres with hardy 990 op Amps on the clean side
It will be difficult to lose the b2 but i understand there are other comparable converters
If you can wait you might want to wait till current octo deal is over as its $750 coupon and custom deal will put pressure on your price but maybe talk to eric at jrr ?
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 6, 2014 16:19:53 GMT -6
i also want to add, that burl claims "Proprietary, high definition, BURL Audio BX1 transformer input".. really? everyone knows transformers are such a mystery?? Is the "input" part of this sentence be what's proprietary? that indicates a transformer circuit, which could explain why it seems to be louder in the tests i've heard. What the "proprietary" labeling assures, is they don't have to show tranny/circuit specs? Personally, that rubs me wrong, especially considering it seems louder by the comparisons i've heard. Also, IMV this lends appropriate value to the idea that my own choice of transformer based input would almost certainly serve me better than a transformer circuit built into a converter, as it would be utterly cost prohibitive to put a unit equal to, or surpassing the capability of say a VP28 on the front end of this AD section.
also, i was unable to find any sort of control parameter over the this BX1 input tranny/circuit? I may have missed it, can you be more specific @scatthedog ? I am curious about where this is, and how it works.
due to recent negative chatter over converters, i want to reiterate, i'm not doubting scat, rick, cowboy or anyone else, THESE COULD BE THE GREATEST SOUNDING CONVERTERS ON EARTH, i am asking questions and putting on the healthy hat of skepticism, i really want to remain friends with everyone lol 8)
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 6, 2014 16:57:59 GMT -6
i also want to add, that burl claims "Proprietary, high definition, BURL Audio BX1 transformer input".. really? everyone knows transformers are such a mystery?? Is the "input" part of this sentence what's proprietary? that indicates a transformer circuit, which could explain why it seems to be louder in the tests i've heard. What the "proprietary" labeling assures, is they don't have to show tranny/circuit specs? Personally, that rubs me wrong, especially considering it seems louder by the comparisons i've heard. Also, IMV this lends appropriate value to the idea that my own choice of transformer based input would almost certainly serve me better than a transformer circuit built into a converter, as it would be utterly cost prohibitive to put a unit equal to, or surpassing the capability of say a VP28 on the front end of this AD section. also, i was unable to find any sort of control parameter over the this BX1 input tranny/circuit? I may have missed it, can you be more specific @scatthedog ? I am curious about where this is, and how it works. due to recent negative chatter over converters, i want to reiterate, i'm not doubting scat, rick, cowboy or anyone else, THESE COULD BE THE GREATEST SOUNDING CONVERTERS ON EARTH, i am asking questions and putting on a the healthy hat of skepticism, i really want to remain friends with everyone lol 8) Isn't this like getting a Neve console and someone saying, "now you're stuck with all those damn transformers on all your channels". Just messing with ya man. I think there is some hocus pocus too, but haven't heard them so can't comment. A lot of respected guys seem to think that they're the nuts, so maybe they are. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2014 17:16:14 GMT -6
Yeah - in my experience - albeit a very short one - I thought that the Burl did sound a little better than the AD side of the Symphony...Now that might not be someone else's take, but I thought there was an objective difference in the too. But, at the time, I couldn't keep both...and I didn't think the upgrade of the AD was worth losing the Symphony DA. So, I didn't keep it. I could definitely see adding one, though. Having said that, I just want to continue buying the things that can make my signal chain better. I can't buy a new room, my room is effectively dead acoustically (that was the goal) and I feel like adding anymore pres would just be lateral moves for me. I could add stereo compression for the 2-bus, or this...not sure yet.
Or just buy a U67, 251 or U47...but that's just cost prohibitive right now.
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Post by popmann on Apr 6, 2014 17:22:53 GMT -6
There is no control over the transformer per se...that happens by hard you push into it. It has a pad AFTER the line amp that allows you to hit the PCM chip at optimal level without regard for how hard you drove the transformer based line amp.
Re:cost....a CAPI input transformer is $42 RETAIL. You can't seriously be questioning whether there's a financial ability to put you equivalent into a $2500 2ch AD...or $10k 8 ch?
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 6, 2014 17:56:46 GMT -6
ya I am just talking about the input level control: goes from -20 db to-12db
I did a test for someone once who wanted the stereo mix burlified and we ran the same mix through the burl just going up the input 2dbf per pass
it was interesting especially the difference between - 16 to -14 db, more presence, almost too much ; like too intimate
I preferred the -14 db but the track owner preferred the -16db
also, the b2 like the 2192 does do a sort of soft clipping
so I could not distinguish between whether what i was hearing was only the result of the transformer getting more saturated or the soft clipping, but actually both
a lot of you guys have got more experience and better gear than me but i would liken this auditory effect to a very sublime compression effect; if you can imagine the presence getting condenses, more present and literally visceral ; it was a little spooky
the track had a very emotive and powerful lead vox; with a few beauty spots ( in a nice real way), but I think that is why the owner preferred the 2 db backed off pass, the beauty spots were also more apparent, but I found the next step up more visceral and engaging
So, the control over the b2 input drive is a feature I appreciate but it certainly doesn't take the transfo out of the signal path !
f
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 6, 2014 18:02:38 GMT -6
ps JohnKen I am working on the wa76 stereo link mod and am posting it as a "how to" tutorial like Group DIY; here is phase 1 ( where Dora got her oats!) mattblue.wix.com/kcatthedog#!untitled/ck0q check out under More DIY article |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 6, 2014 18:36:34 GMT -6
There is no control over the transformer per se...that happens by hard you push into it. It has a pad AFTER the line amp that allows you to hit the PCM chip at optimal level without regard for how hard you drove the transformer based line amp. Re:cost....a CAPI input transformer is $42 RETAIL. You can't seriously be questioning whether there's a financial ability to put you equivalent into a $2500 2ch AD...or $10k 8 ch? i'm not sure i understand this question/statement? but what i'm saying is, getting state of the art, pristine, accurate and euphonic free converters, and then placing an entire capi VP28 in front of it, would almost certainly equal and have more versatility and transformer/opamp goo than burls BX1 transformer on the front end of their converter, and more importantly you could take it OUT of line. And YES i'm saying if burl put the equivalent of a VP28 on the front end of every converter of a 24 channel rig, it would be prohibitively expensive. hey @johnkenn , did you ever compare a fast, clean, burr brown style pre going into your B2, to a vp28 going into the symphony? It would be interesting to know your impressions on something like that, more of an apples to apples? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2014 19:23:56 GMT -6
ya I am just talking about the input level control: goes from -20 db to-12db I did a test for someone once who wanted the stereo mix burlified and we ran the same mix through the burl just going up the input 2dbf per pass it was interesting especially the difference between - 16 to -14 db, more presence, almost too much ; like too intimate I preferred the -14 db but the track owner preferred the -16db also, the b2 like the 2192 does do a sort of soft clipping so I could not distinguish between whether what i was hearing was only the result of the transformer getting more saturated or the soft clipping, but actually both a lot of you guys have got more experience and better gear than me but i would liken this auditory effect to a very sublime compression effect; if you can imagine the presence getting condenses, more present and literally visceral ; it was a little spooky the track had a very emotive and powerful lead vox; with a few beauty spots ( in a nice real way), but I think that is why the owner preferred the 2 db backed off pass, the beauty spots were also more apparent, but I found the next step up more visceral and engaging So, the control over the b2 input drive is a feature I appreciate but it certainly doesn't take the transfo out of the signal path ! f You are NOT helping my gas |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 6, 2014 19:35:52 GMT -6
oh that is my job here ? two wa76's mono/stereo for tracking and stereo on the 2 buss for less than 1 1176 is a problem ? ya but you are right there always seems to be just 1 more piece of gear; eh ? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2014 20:41:34 GMT -6
I was thinking more like @jcoutu 's Thermionic Phoenix on the 2-bus.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 6, 2014 20:44:23 GMT -6
stop u r giving me gas !
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