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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 23, 2020 20:04:25 GMT -6
Hey guys,
I have a Breedlove acoustic, great guitar. Action is awesome, neck just the right thickness and diameter etc. The thing is since I bought the guitar about 4 years back I feel like the tone has changed. It might all be in head but I feel like the guitar is brighter than it used to be and has some weird resonances in the 2-4K region. I’ve always used the same D’Adarrio strings.
I’m wondering if getting mellower strings will help me get a softer, more woody tone. Any suggestions?
Edited for typos
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Post by LazyOldSun on Sept 24, 2020 9:36:33 GMT -6
I’ve found John Pearse strings to sound very good on my martin and gibson acoustics. I also prefer 80/20 bronze rather than phosphor bronze. They seem to have less of that high end zing. Curious what others here may suggest, but i suggest giving the john pearse 200L a try.
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Post by svart on Sept 24, 2020 9:42:42 GMT -6
Bronze strings but use a little diluted vinegar to wipe them would tarnish them quickly and give a warmer (less top end) tone I would think.
I knew a fussy guitarist who would never change his strings unless they physically broke because they were "broken in" one they tarnished and he loved the darker tone they had.
I think jazz guitarists sometimes have a similar thought process on strings.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 24, 2020 10:36:52 GMT -6
Bronze strings but use a little diluted vinegar to wipe them would tarnish them quickly and give a warmer (less top end) tone I would think. I knew a fussy guitarist who would never change his strings unless they physically broke because they were "broken in" one they tarnished and he loved the darker tone they had. I think jazz guitarists sometimes have a similar thought process on strings. I somewhat agree, I always liked guitar strings after they’ve been played on for a day or so. Just lightly broken in though. Definitely not dead. I’ll check out some bronze strings, thanks. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 24, 2020 10:38:44 GMT -6
I’ve found John Pearse strings to sound very good on my martin and gibson acoustics. I also prefer 80/20 bronze rather than phosphor bronze. They seem to have less of that high end zing. Curious what others here may suggest, but i suggest giving the john pearse 200L a try. thanks for the recommendation. Would you consider your guitars to be inherently bright sounding? My Breedlove is. But when I bought it it was a more euphoric sense of “bright”. Now it’s “zingy” like you said. Especially on the 3 high strings. |
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Post by EmRR on Sept 24, 2020 10:42:13 GMT -6
Heavier gauge, if the guitar will take them.
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Post by ragan on Sept 24, 2020 10:44:39 GMT -6
Generally speaking, 80/20 strings will have a lot more top end and a more scooped midrange, but they tend to mellow quicker. Phosphor bronze will be less bright (though still quite bright when they're brand new) and with a clackier midrange, but take longer to mellow out. I kinda think of it as:
80/20 - C12
PB - U47
I can't stand the sonics of new strings. I want to hear wood, not metal. I don't change mine unless I have to.
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Post by LazyOldSun on Sept 24, 2020 11:28:38 GMT -6
Generally speaking, 80/20 strings will have a lot more top end and a more scooped midrange, but they tend to mellow quicker. Phosphor bronze will be less bright (though still quite bright when they're brand new) and with a clackier midrange, but take longer to mellow out. I'm usually a bit confused when I see read that 80/20 bronze strings are described as brighter than Phosphor bronze as I find the later much brighter. But it must be the upper midrange you mention that bothers me with Phosphor strings. I agree with Doug that heavier strings can help if your guitar can handle it. My J-45 is an old one that came with old strings, at some point I put on new strings and quickly put the old ones back on and have no plans on changing them. It just sounds right and thankfully has no tuning issues. Tbone, My acoustic guitars are probably not as bright as a newer guitar like a Breedlove, but I still prefer them to sound mellow yet articulate. I would experiment with strings, especially trying 80/20 bronze since you mention the resonances in the 2-4k area. |
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Post by ragan on Sept 24, 2020 11:43:35 GMT -6
Generally speaking, 80/20 strings will have a lot more top end and a more scooped midrange, but they tend to mellow quicker. Phosphor bronze will be less bright (though still quite bright when they're brand new) and with a clackier midrange, but take longer to mellow out. I'm usually a bit confused when I see read that 80/20 bronze strings are described as brighter than Phosphor bronze as I find the later much brighter. But it must be the upper midrange you mention that bothers me with Phosphor strings. I agree with Doug that heavier strings can help if your guitar can handle it. My J-45 is an old one that came with old strings, at some point I put on new strings and quickly put the old ones back on and have no plans on changing them. It just sounds right and thankfully has no tuning issues. Tbone, My acoustic guitars are probably not as bright as a newer guitar like a Breedlove, but I still prefer them to sound mellow yet articulate. I would experiment with strings, especially trying 80/20 bronze since you mention the resonances in the 2-4k area. Yeah I think we all mean sort of different things when we say "bright" in reference to an acoustic guitar, or anything really. I went back and forth with PB and 80/20 for some years and have settled into PB because I just don't typically like the upper register airiness of 80/20. Highly subjective, all of it. |
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Post by EmRR on Sept 24, 2020 11:46:47 GMT -6
This live music radio show I’m working has really bright instrument mics. Strummed acoustics all sound like metal on metal, shavings shrapnel coming off a drill press, etc. The DI’s sound like, well, DI’s so they at least lack the treble attack. Finding I’m mixing them about 50/50 AND de-essing the mics. Not what I expected.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 25, 2020 18:45:16 GMT -6
Try recording with a ribbon mic.
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Post by Ward on Sept 26, 2020 7:49:24 GMT -6
D'Addario has a Nickel Bronze acoustic string type that are amazingly warm and squeak a whole lot less than bronze strings.
Also. Martin 'Lifespan' strings are kind of dull which might achieve the results you seek.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 26, 2020 8:20:17 GMT -6
Try recording with a ribbon mic. I have, and do. But it's not really about how it sounds recorded, although that problem is there as well. It's more that it just doesn't sound good in the room anymore. I wonder if the wood aged and/or flexed in some way since buying it. It didn't have these weird resonances before. I was living in Los Angeles when I bought it but I'm in Portland now, so maybe its the change in climate. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Sept 27, 2020 20:57:54 GMT -6
Try recording with a ribbon mic. I have, and do. But it's not really about how it sounds recorded, although that problem is there as well. It's more that it just doesn't sound good in the room anymore. I wonder if the wood aged and/or flexed in some way since buying it. It didn't have these weird resonances before. I was living in Los Angeles when I bought it but I'm in Portland now, so maybe its the change in climate. Is Portland more or less humid than Los Angeles? It really could be that the guitar itself is “wetter” or “drier” than it was when you lived in LA. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 27, 2020 21:12:25 GMT -6
I have, and do. But it's not really about how it sounds recorded, although that problem is there as well. It's more that it just doesn't sound good in the room anymore. I wonder if the wood aged and/or flexed in some way since buying it. It didn't have these weird resonances before. I was living in Los Angeles when I bought it but I'm in Portland now, so maybe its the change in climate. Is Portland more or less humid than Los Angeles? It really could be that the guitar itself is “wetter” or “drier” than it was when you lived in LA. Its definitely more humid in Portland. Although it’s probably more accurate to say it’s dry as hell in Los Angeles. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Sept 28, 2020 7:04:19 GMT -6
Is Portland more or less humid than Los Angeles? It really could be that the guitar itself is “wetter” or “drier” than it was when you lived in LA. Its definitely more humid in Portland. Although it’s probably more accurate to say it’s dry as hell in Los Angeles. see if you can find out what the humidity is in the room where you keep the guitar. It may be that you need to get a humdipak or similar to pull a little moisture out of the guitar if it humidity is much higher than around 50%. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Sept 28, 2020 7:06:04 GMT -6
oh and as for strings, I like the Martin Retros a lot.
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Post by tkaitkai on Sept 28, 2020 9:40:28 GMT -6
Yep, climate can definitely make a huge difference with acoustics.
The humidity is pretty insane here in FL. I pretty much have to keep my acoustic guitars in their cases 24/7 if I want to preserve their sound. I have one that I keep out, and I'm pretty sure it's over-humidified — sounded great when I bought it, but now it sounds dry, clang-y, and produces lots of annoying resonances. Pretty much unusable for recording.
For strings, this is going to sound odd, but I actually love Elixirs for "warmth." They have a certain quality that a lot of people find overly bright, but to me, it registers more as "lively" or "rich." They have a really nice sustain that sort of balances out the ice pick-y transient thing that tends to be a problem with so many acoustic guitar recordings. All up to your personal taste, of course.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 11, 2020 17:28:34 GMT -6
Update. So I bought a few different sets of strings from GC today to try out. I just strung up a set of DAdarrio Nickel Bronze.
The annoying overtone I’m trying to get rid of is still there, but less emphasized. There’s less high end and a little less bass than the standard Phosphor Bronze strings. And the mid range is more prominent, in a good way. Overall I like them, they sound more “Folk” or “organic” if that makes sense. I’m still breaking them in so we’ll see.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 12, 2020 12:34:05 GMT -6
Yep, climate can definitely make a huge difference with acoustics. The humidity is pretty insane here in FL. I pretty much have to keep my acoustic guitars in their cases 24/7 if I want to preserve their sound. I have one that I keep out, and I'm pretty sure it's over-humidified — sounded great when I bought it, but now it sounds dry, clang-y, and produces lots of annoying resonances. Pretty much unusable for recording. For strings, this is going to sound odd, but I actually love Elixirs for "warmth." They have a certain quality that a lot of people find overly bright, but to me, it registers more as "lively" or "rich." They have a really nice sustain that sort of balances out the ice pick-y transient thing that tends to be a problem with so many acoustic guitar recordings. All up to your personal taste, of course. IMO that modern "Ice-picky" thing is usually caused by bad mic technique, specifically excessive use of close micing. Pull the damn mic(s) back a bit, the ice pick goes away.
But everybody seems to think they need to close mic because "It's the way everybody does it." Especially those who make internet videos. Vicious circle.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 12, 2020 15:03:20 GMT -6
Yep, climate can definitely make a huge difference with acoustics. The humidity is pretty insane here in FL. I pretty much have to keep my acoustic guitars in their cases 24/7 if I want to preserve their sound. I have one that I keep out, and I'm pretty sure it's over-humidified — sounded great when I bought it, but now it sounds dry, clang-y, and produces lots of annoying resonances. Pretty much unusable for recording. For strings, this is going to sound odd, but I actually love Elixirs for "warmth." They have a certain quality that a lot of people find overly bright, but to me, it registers more as "lively" or "rich." They have a really nice sustain that sort of balances out the ice pick-y transient thing that tends to be a problem with so many acoustic guitar recordings. All up to your personal taste, of course. IMO that modern "Ice-picky" thing is usually caused by bad mic technique, specifically excessive use of close micing. Pull the damn mic(s) back a bit, the ice pick goes away.
But everybody seems to think they need to close mic because "It's the way everybody does it." Especially those who make internet videos. Vicious circle.
Totally agree with you. I've learned two things recording acoustics...1) every mic will have a different sweet spot on the guitar 2) the sweet spot for any mic will many times surprise you, if you're actually listening.
My problem is just that the guitar doesn't sound right in the room. The strings I'm trying right now are definitely helping though.
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Post by Ward on Oct 13, 2020 5:12:59 GMT -6
Update. So I bought a few different sets of strings from GC today to try out. I just strung up a set of DAdarrio Nickel Bronze. The annoying overtone I’m trying to get rid of is still there, but less emphasized. There’s less high end and a little less bass than the standard Phosphor Bronze strings. And the mid range is more prominent, in a good way. Overall I like them, they sound more “Folk” or “organic” if that makes sense. I’m still breaking them in so we’ll see. Excellent assessment. They work so well on a couple of my guitars but not on all of them. |
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 13, 2020 16:24:39 GMT -6
IMO that modern "Ice-picky" thing is usually caused by bad mic technique, specifically excessive use of close micing. Pull the damn mic(s) back a bit, the ice pick goes away.
But everybody seems to think they need to close mic because "It's the way everybody does it." Especially those who make internet videos. Vicious circle.
Totally agree with you. I've learned two things recording acoustics...1) every mic will have a different sweet spot on the guitar 2) the sweet spot for any mic will many times surprise you, if you're actually listening.
My problem is just that the guitar doesn't sound right in the room. The strings I'm trying right now are definitely helping though.
I didn't mean to imply that your problem was mic technique - it was intended as a general comment.
If the guitar doesn't sound right in the room that's a real problem - it's difficult to impossible to make a guitar that sounds "off" sound good - you're more likely to end up with a good to great recording of an "off" instrument, which sometimes can have its place, like if you're doing certain types of really old country blues. (I have a special guitar for that, a 1932 Slingerland Maybelle round hole (slightly) arch top.) But in most cases, no. If the guitar sounded good before I'd suspect humidity. And of course choice of strings has a significant influence on tone. So can choice of pick. I'm now using significantly lighter picks than I used to, and my tone has improved. pick material can also be important. Not all medium (for example) picks of the same shape sound the same. Some picks that seem really cool (for example agate) don't sound that good.
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