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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 8:25:03 GMT -6
Maybe you guys can help. I tracked basics for a band pre-covid, but lockdown hit and we didn't get to the vocals. The singer was visiting family, who has a "studio" in their basement, so he tracked a song for a single that they want me to mix.
The vocal sounds so bad. The performance is fine, but there's so much weird midrange, comb-filtering, terrible room reflections.... basically if it could go wrong, it went wrong. I've tried EQ'ing the mids, both dynamically and otherwise and it's as if the problem areas are shifting throughout the performance. I suspect he was also moving his head around a lot. The guy that recorded it said it was a KSM44 through a Metric Halo pre. I feel like I'm hearing some pretty bad compression too, though he made no indication of doing that.
I don't have the option of re-recording. He did this in Chicago and is now back here in upstate NY. I can't have him over to my place because it's one small room.
Is there something you can think of that would help? I may just distort the living shit out of it.
EDIT: I forgot about the AC that pops on and off. ugh. People wonder why we're so cynical when someone says "I have a friend that is an engineer."
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Post by stormymondays on Aug 26, 2020 8:34:37 GMT -6
I don’t use it but I think Soothe is the “magic fix” you are looking for. And Izotope RX for the AC noise.
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 26, 2020 9:02:53 GMT -6
2nd RX. Invaluable tool that every engineer needs to have some understanding of these days.
Haven't used soothe but think it would be a good call. Or proQ3 in dynamic mode.
Then I'd try running through some compressor eq hardware combo and reprint it all to see if that'll help.
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Post by sean on Aug 26, 2020 9:11:32 GMT -6
RX for the A/C noise, and Soothe can work some magic. I ran into a similar sounding issue with a vocal recently and while I don’t really understand how Soothe works, I popped it on, made some adjustments, and was able to get it to sound useable, and then with some normal EQ and compression sit in the track.
It went from “what the fuck happened on this recording” to “that sounds alright”
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Post by svart on Aug 26, 2020 9:13:13 GMT -6
Maybe you guys can help. I tracked basics for a band pre-covid, but lockdown hit and we didn't get to the vocals. The singer was visiting family, who has a "studio" in their basement, so he tracked a song for a single that they want me to mix. The vocal sounds so bad. The performance is fine, but there's so much weird midrange, comb-filtering, terrible room reflections.... basically if it could go wrong, it went wrong. I've tried EQ'ing the mids, both dynamically and otherwise and it's as if the problem areas are shifting throughout the performance. I suspect he was also moving his head around a lot. The guy that recorded it said it was a KSM44 through a Metric Halo pre. I feel like I'm hearing some pretty bad compression too, though he made no indication of doing that. I don't have the option of re-recording. He did this in Chicago and is now back here in upstate NY. I can't have him over to my place because it's one small room. Is there something you can think of that would help? I may just distort the living shit out of it. EDIT: I forgot about the AC that pops on and off. ugh. People wonder why we're so cynical when someone says "I have a friend that is an engineer." I've had this happen. I tracked a band that had their own producer. He didn't like that we couldn't track 8 songs in a single day and didn't want to pay for another day to do overdubs and vocals, so he took the singer to his house and tracked vocals in a bare bedroom with some cheap mic and cheap interface. He did not like that I mentioned that the vocal tracks were mostly unusable garbage and told me that if I wanted anything else I would have to get the band to pay for it or do it on my own dime. He then proceeded to poison the well with the band so when I tried to contact them they weren't very receptive to me at all since he had told them I was trying to cheat both him and the band. So I tried my best with the vocals and they never sounded good no matter what I tried. The comb filtering might be somewhat assuaged by Soothe, but it's not the miracle plugin that it's sold as. It gets too aggressive and starts sounding "warbly" if you use enough to actually deal with the comb peaks. You might try really cutting the mud and then using some filtered reverb to "fill in" the lower mids a bit and it might mask some of the issues. That's what I mostly did with these mixes, covered up as much as possible with small amounts of delay and reverb. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 26, 2020 9:45:00 GMT -6
Maybe you guys can help. I tracked basics for a band pre-covid, but lockdown hit and we didn't get to the vocals. The singer was visiting family, who has a "studio" in their basement, so he tracked a song for a single that they want me to mix. The vocal sounds so bad. The performance is fine, but there's so much weird midrange, comb-filtering, terrible room reflections.... basically if it could go wrong, it went wrong. I've tried EQ'ing the mids, both dynamically and otherwise and it's as if the problem areas are shifting throughout the performance. I suspect he was also moving his head around a lot. The guy that recorded it said it was a KSM44 through a Metric Halo pre. I feel like I'm hearing some pretty bad compression too, though he made no indication of doing that. I don't have the option of re-recording. He did this in Chicago and is now back here in upstate NY. I can't have him over to my place because it's one small room. Is there something you can think of that would help? I may just distort the living shit out of it. EDIT: I forgot about the AC that pops on and off. ugh. People wonder why we're so cynical when someone says "I have a friend that is an engineer." I've had this happen. I tracked a band that had their own producer. He didn't like that we couldn't track 8 songs in a single day and didn't want to pay for another day to do overdubs and vocals, so he took the singer to his house and tracked vocals in a bare bedroom with some cheap mic and cheap interface. He did not like that I mentioned that the vocal tracks were mostly unusable garbage and told me that if I wanted anything else I would have to get the band to pay for it or do it on my own dime. He then proceeded to poison the well with the band so when I tried to contact them they weren't very receptive to me at all since he had told them I was trying to cheat both him and the band. So I tried my best with the vocals and they never sounded good no matter what I tried. The comb filtering might be somewhat assuaged by Soothe, but it's not the miracle plugin that it's sold as. It gets too aggressive and starts sounding "warbly" if you use enough to actually deal with the comb peaks. You might try really cutting the mud and then using some filtered reverb to "fill in" the lower mids a bit and it might mask some of the issues. That's what I mostly did with these mixes, covered up as much as possible with small amounts of delay and reverb. Life's too short for that shit. |
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Post by svart on Aug 26, 2020 9:48:48 GMT -6
I've had this happen. I tracked a band that had their own producer. He didn't like that we couldn't track 8 songs in a single day and didn't want to pay for another day to do overdubs and vocals, so he took the singer to his house and tracked vocals in a bare bedroom with some cheap mic and cheap interface. He did not like that I mentioned that the vocal tracks were mostly unusable garbage and told me that if I wanted anything else I would have to get the band to pay for it or do it on my own dime. He then proceeded to poison the well with the band so when I tried to contact them they weren't very receptive to me at all since he had told them I was trying to cheat both him and the band. So I tried my best with the vocals and they never sounded good no matter what I tried. The comb filtering might be somewhat assuaged by Soothe, but it's not the miracle plugin that it's sold as. It gets too aggressive and starts sounding "warbly" if you use enough to actually deal with the comb peaks. You might try really cutting the mud and then using some filtered reverb to "fill in" the lower mids a bit and it might mask some of the issues. That's what I mostly did with these mixes, covered up as much as possible with small amounts of delay and reverb. Life's too short for that shit. No doubt. Things like this are valuable teaching lessons, both in dealing with people, as well as dealing with technical issues. I certainly wouldn't want to do it this way all the time though. Also, apparently after I sent off the mixes (and received ZERO feedback or anything) the band had a final falling out with the producer. They contacted me later about working with them on their next record and we agreed on a price and timeframe. I didn't hear from them for months until I saw their FB feed at another studio. They then contacted me again about trying to salvage the tracks they had gotten from this other studio, so I took an objective listen and they weren't horrible, but they weren't great either. Turns out that other studio did it for free but then wouldn't release the raw tracks for remixing, so instead I tried to master the tracks. Turned out decent enough but not where I think I could have gotten them had I done the record. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Aug 26, 2020 9:48:58 GMT -6
If the song allows for it, distort it to death and make it part of the sound.
Use multiple saturators, exciters, bitcrushers, EQs, compressors, etc. to fundamentally change the character of the sound until it’s actually something cool. You can also play around with chorusing, modulation, and stereo widening FX. Izotope VocalSynth is a REALLY great tool for stuff like this.
The point is to make it completely different, but in a good way. You don’t want it to sound like the same shitty recording with a little distortion. I recently had to do this with an acoustic guitar. It takes a lot of work, but it can be done.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 26, 2020 18:18:44 GMT -6
Life's too short for that shit. No doubt. Things like this are valuable teaching lessons, both in dealing with people, as well as dealing with technical issues. I certainly wouldn't want to do it this way all the time though. Also, apparently after I sent off the mixes (and received ZERO feedback or anything) the band had a final falling out with the producer. They contacted me later about working with them on their next record and we agreed on a price and timeframe. I didn't hear from them for months until I saw their FB feed at another studio. They then contacted me again about trying to salvage the tracks they had gotten from this other studio, so I took an objective listen and they weren't horrible, but they weren't great either. Turns out that other studio did it for free but then wouldn't release the raw tracks for remixing, so instead I tried to master the tracks. Turned out decent enough but not where I think I could have gotten them had I done the record. Gah. Bands can be THE WORST. (And also very occasionally, the best). Sorry you had to deal with that $hit. |
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Post by drumsound on Aug 26, 2020 18:53:16 GMT -6
I believe SPL has a De-Verb plugin that is intended to deal with more room sound than desired. I've never tried it, but it exists...
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Post by rowmat on Aug 26, 2020 19:36:45 GMT -6
The joys of polishing other people's turds!
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Post by rowmat on Aug 26, 2020 19:38:53 GMT -6
".... EDIT: I forgot about the AC that pops on and off. ugh. People wonder why we're so cynical when someone says "I have a friend that is an engineer." Sanitation engineers that deal in poop don't count. |
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Post by EmRR on Aug 26, 2020 22:16:02 GMT -6
Damn, svart. Those are the type to ignore as soon as you figure it out. You can’t predict it, but it reveals itself. They can’t appreciate the cost, the skill, the result, no matter how many times shitty results bite them in the ass. Affixing our name to them only hurts us. The (low) buck doesn’t matter, and our mental health does better cleaning portajohns: at least we know the shit we’re getting into. Knowing we can do better is meaningless, these ‘clients’ egos expect the world on a platter, will always cut corners and be unhappy with results. It can only burn those who work with them. If we consider it a mental condition, staying clear of it allows at least the chance for them to eventually see the light, and come to us reformed. If we struggle with them now, they will always have a bad taste, their own, and affix it to us. Ramble rant off.... : ).
I mean, hell, to the OP, I don’t even like getting bass DI tracks phoned in, they always suck! I commiserate!
I spent tonight prepping someone else’s tracks for mixing, mostly putting RX7 de-clip plugs on most tracks. Buncha flatlined shit. Acoustic music!
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 27, 2020 4:18:06 GMT -6
Do you know what mic they used? This may sound silly, but I have used IK Mic Room or Mic Mod EFX to smooth the vocal out. I’ve even thrown the Slate mic emulations on a vocal done with a cheap mxl mic by first trying to correct the vocal with EQ based on the plot points of the cheap mic, then adding Slate’s VMS emulations. Can’t help you with the AC. Ask what equipment the studio had and maybe try to guide them to do some new takes.
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Post by Ward on Aug 27, 2020 4:46:11 GMT -6
The joys of polishing other people's turds! Even cleaning up someone else's mess. Some of the stuff I'm asked to 'fix up' . . . holy crap. |
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Post by svart on Aug 27, 2020 6:51:49 GMT -6
Damn, svart. Those are the type to ignore as soon as you figure it out. You can’t predict it, but it reveals itself. They can’t appreciate the cost, the skill, the result, no matter how many times shitty results bite them in the ass. Affixing our name to them only hurts us. The (low) buck doesn’t matter, and our mental health does better cleaning portajohns: at least we know the shit we’re getting into. Knowing we can do better is meaningless, these ‘clients’ egos expect the world on a platter, will always cut corners and be unhappy with results. It can only burn those who work with them. If we consider it a mental condition, staying clear of it allows at least the chance for them to eventually see the light, and come to us reformed. If we struggle with them now, they will always have a bad taste, their own, and affix it to us. Ramble rant off.... : ). I mean, hell, to the OP, I don’t even like getting bass DI tracks phoned in, they always suck! I commiserate! I spent tonight prepping someone else’s tracks for mixing, mostly putting RX7 de-clip plugs on most tracks. Buncha flatlined shit. Acoustic music! Agreed, but these were really just kids, and for the most part the first producer seemed shady as hell, trying to make a name for himself, etc. I don't know anything about the second studio but I assume the same thing. The band broke up due to the stress of all this and I ran into the singer at some point and it seemed they had a really sour take of the whole "studio" thing and planned on "just doing it myself" from that point on. Other than that, I'm a sucker for helping talented young bands. I know they're difficult and ignorant, but being part of bringing a sense of wonder and experience to their lives and seeing them struggle and grow and create is the juice for me. One young band that really sticks to it and realizes latent potential is worth the occasional shitbird. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2020 9:20:04 GMT -6
I believe SPL has a De-Verb plugin that is intended to deal with more room sound than desired. I've never tried it, but it exists... I have the Izotope Rx stuff. Includes a de-verb thing. It works pretty good. I use it a lot for my job. I edit audio/video stuff for virtual content that the library is making now in lieu of being open to the public, so I get a lot of really shitty sounding audio with insane room reflections (iPhone recordings). It introduces artifacts for sure though. I plan to see if I can get away with a very small amount of it though. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2020 9:22:34 GMT -6
The joys of polishing other people's turds! Even cleaning up someone else's mess. Some of the stuff I'm asked to 'fix up' . . . holy crap. I'm polishing turds literally every day for my day job. I work for the Public Library here, and we're doing all virtual content since we can't be open. I'm responsible for cleaning up the audio and video submissions. It's all pretty terrible, honestly, but I've acquiesced to "it's good enough", because the alternative is just being annoyed all the time, and for the consumer, it really is good enough. In the case of THIS job though, it pains me to have to think that way. |
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Post by christopher on Aug 27, 2020 10:25:28 GMT -6
I’ve had those experiences, it’s always frustrating. My advice is don’t waste too much time on it, treat it like a demo with the idea vocals will be redone. I’ve been guilty of trying to make bad takes work, heck my close friend is STILL remixing some crappy takes from 15 years ago.
There are maybe 3 tricks I use that either work or nothing will. One thing is extreme boost narrow EQ in 3 places: fundamental (300 ish), mid harmonics (2-5k intelligibility, or sometimes 800-1.5k), and top harmonics(10k). I might have to boost a 30-40 dB at each place, might have to use EQs in series. This has the effect of subtracting everything else. If it’s promising I might take it further and mult across tracks, so each bandpass has its own own fader. Try some Gates and expanders on each channel... + Compression.. play with attack/ release, play with slope.. esp on the mid and high harmonics. Some Slap echo or small room reverb. If this is promising, I might try blending a little of the original in on another track. If it doesn’t work... it’s time to put on the brakes. Use effects to hide it and lower it in the mix.
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Post by brenta on Aug 27, 2020 10:36:07 GMT -6
Stories like this and Svart's basically sum up my engineering career haha. It seems like artists always need to learn things the hard way.
What I've found is the way you choose to address it with the band/artist make all of the difference in the world.
Ex: I'm mixing a rock band right now. The drummer just got a free "DAW" app for his phone and tablet, that has a "mastering" plugin built in. The drummer is super excited about this app and "mixing & mastering" for the first time, and is insistent on running my pristine mixes through this plugin, which to me sounds like it's just putting a +10db 12khz shelf on it. If I told them the app sucks and the plugin is destroying the mixes and he doesn't know what he's doing, it would hurt his feelings and automatically make him defensive by human nature. So instead I started with a compliment and asked him if he hears what I'm hearing. "That sounds cool! But does it sound really bright to you?" Suddenly the band is listening specifically for the brightness that is apparent to me, and they can't listen to those "masters" without noticing how bright it is. Problem solved and nobody's pride was damaged.
So to Sloweye I would try addressing it that way."Nice performance! Is the sound of the A/C going in and out during the recording or that distortion in the mid-range going to bother you when you listen to this years from now?" Suddenly he won't be able to listen to it without hearing that.
When all else fails I tell them I'm not comfortable having my name on the record. That usually gets their attention, and if it doesn't, well at least my name isn't on a terrible sounding record.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Sept 22, 2020 9:29:10 GMT -6
Sorry to hear. I been seriously contemplating charging a polishing turd rate and a separate mixing rate  Send PT session for estimate lol! Sucks when you get a session to mix and you have to organize, arrange, label, color code, un route, re route etc. That is also now an extra cost added to the mixing rate  |
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 22, 2020 9:31:15 GMT -6
Sorry to hear. I been seriously contemplating charging a polishing turd rate and a separate mixing rate Send PT session for estimate lol! Sucks when you get a session to mix and you have to organize, arrange, label, color code, un route, re route etc. That is also now an extra cost added to the mixing rate I nearly doubled my rate for one client after working with him once and knowing how much work I'd need to do to make his stuff work. Unfortunately, it didn't deter that client, but at least I made more out of the deal. |
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Send PT session for estimate lol! 