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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 15, 2020 7:45:22 GMT -6
I've used all the main tape brands and tape machines. Nowhere near as extensively as some of our members, but enough to know what I'm hearing. Didn't like any Slate. UAD Studer didn't sound right to me. UAD's ATR-102 is the best plug-in so far. It's been on my 2 bus since day one. I never did feel it sounded like tape, it just improved everything nicely. I have a bunch of other tape sims I don't love. The odd thing is only UAD's Oxide ever fooled my ears. It's supposedly a simple version of their more expensive tape sims, but something sounds different. I try it occasionally, usually don't use it, but when it's good, it's really good.
I'd love the hear a shootout, great idea craig morris.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 15, 2020 9:29:39 GMT -6
I have been off and on with tape sims over the years. Currently pretty much off, with the exception of the Massey one, which I use mainly on electric guitar.
Setting that aside, I have found the best use of these for me, was not on the master but applied subtly to every track as if the project had been done to that medium. Like when using Avid HEAT, I would find a setting I liked in isolation but then dial it back one click for less effect, if that makes sense. If I stuck with the more audible artifacts, even if they were great in solo, I was never as happy with the final mix.
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Post by drbill on Aug 15, 2020 12:09:02 GMT -6
drbill For those who used a lot of tape is not every setup sounding different? Meaning: Even if the tape sims are close, they all can be very different? What tape sound is for person A it is not for Person B? There are/were differences. IMO / IME, they were not MAJOR differences like say....the difference between a 512 and 1073. They were minor, and honestly, in the 80's, I never really thought about it much. In most situations other than Bass and Drums, tape was a degradation that I (and many pro engineers) tried to mitigate at that point in time. The compression / head bump on bass / drums was generally cool though. IMO, the initial capture and what instrument / console / pre / EQ / compressor / etc. was far more important to the end result than what brand of tape you were using. There are and were exceptions to the rules...
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 15, 2020 14:49:27 GMT -6
drbill For those who used a lot of tape is not every setup sounding different? Meaning: Even if the tape sims are close, they all can be very different? What tape sound is for person A it is not for Person B? There are/were differences. IMO / IME, they were not MAJOR differences like say....the difference between a 512 and 1073. They were minor, and honestly, in the 80's, I never really thought about it much. In most situations other than Bass and Drums, tape was a degradation that I (and many pro engineers) tried to mitigate at that point in time. The compression / head bump on bass / drums was generally cool though. IMO, the initial capture and what instrument / console / pre / EQ / compressor / etc. was far more important to the end result than what brand of tape you were using. There are and were exceptions to the rules...
As always great view point and I see myself those simulation tools as optional sometimes they work well and sometimes they do not work well. The whole audio thing a big compromise.....
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 15, 2020 16:30:58 GMT -6
Here is the best I can do in an hour. I apologize for my playing in advance, as I can play almost any instrument, badly. If anyone wants to hear vocals, lay something down over this and give us the link. I'll run these stems trough my stuff tonight.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 16, 2020 16:18:35 GMT -6
The folders below contains files of processed tracks using the Soundskulptor TS500 and two of the IK Tape Machines, the 24 and 440. The TS500 has a switch for 7.5, 15, and 30 ips. I only did files with the 7.5 and 30 ips setting to show the extremes. There is a three postion tape saturation switch, which I left on medium. The BIAS/EQ switch affect the emphasis/de-emaphasis curve, and I left it it the postion that gave "head bump" and high end roll off. On all the files (except for one of the drum tracks labelled differently), I set the level so that some of the transients pushed the level into the red.
It would be great to hear the Bereich03, the RND, and the Roger Mayer processing my original files!
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Post by Quint on Aug 17, 2020 13:21:01 GMT -6
I'm slammed this week, bit I can try to run the Bereichs this weekend when I get a chance.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 17, 2020 17:26:39 GMT -6
Bill makes a great point, but yeah I’ll admit there are things I miss about the sound of tape, just like if you made me go back to tape there are a hell of a lot of things I would miss about digital. This is the main problem with tape simulators, you can get the distortion of tape ( that’s really what they are all about) but you can’t get what tape did right and many find wrong with digital. Not saying these plugins and boxes are bad, distortion is what we are all about, just don’t call it the sound of tape. Of course go align and reset the cards on an MCI JH24 and tell me you miss tape😁
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 17, 2020 17:48:54 GMT -6
Bill makes a great point, but yeah I’ll admit there are things I miss about the sound of tape, just like if you made me go back to tape there are a hell of a lot of things I would miss about digital. This is the main problem with tape simulators, you can get the distortion of tape ( that’s really what they are all about) but you can’t get what tape did right and many find wrong with digital. Not saying these plugins and boxes are bad, distortion is what we are all about, just don’t call it the sound of tape. Of course go align and reset the cards on an MCI JH24 and tell me you miss tape😁 I don't care if Slates VTM sounds like the real deal. I like what it does and just a touch of it goes a long way VTM shapes off the transients in a nice subtle way. Sometimes it darkens sounds, sometimes it gives e-guitats a nice frame. Base guitars sound rounder and more bodied. On the two bus it gives me the sound degradation which I love about the late 70s Clspton releases. I have with all Slate plug ins a love and hate relationship only exception VTM.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 17, 2020 17:56:59 GMT -6
I love tape sims, use them on everything.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 17, 2020 20:16:39 GMT -6
For fun I fired up my TEAC A-2300S consumer tape machine and bounced the drums that I posted off it. Here's the link:
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Post by stormymondays on Aug 18, 2020 6:14:21 GMT -6
I drank the Slate VTM koolaid and always put it on every track and the master before starting a mix. It used to be VCC as well but since I got Console 1 I do my console saturation there. And plenty of hardware, of course!
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Post by viciousbliss on Aug 18, 2020 19:07:47 GMT -6
Generally I use Phoenix on vocal tracks, Tapedesk on instruments, and UAD 102 for mastering. Sometimes I'll also use Phoenix on instruments. Love the Dark Essence from Phoenix for vocals. On the 102 I made my own unlinked preset based on one of the Ultralinear ones. I like it a lot better when it's not linked. Satin feels flat by comparison. After reading a lot of forum threads in various places, I rarely use any of the speeds below 30 ips on any plugin that has speed options. Overloud Dopamine almost always comes after a tape plugin on a track.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 18, 2020 21:18:53 GMT -6
I'm slammed this week, bit I can try to run the Bereichs this weekend when I get a chance. No rush! Can't wait to hear them when you get the chance. Also, I'd love it this thread would be about posting examples of the same tracks through different devices. I hope I don't offend by saying this, but I wasn't looking for another plugin discussion thread.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2020 22:51:25 GMT -6
I didn't have access to a computer last weekend and then got distracted by compressors today when I realized what I was using recently had a way too slow workflow. I'll get something up this weekend. I just had issues to deal with.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 19, 2020 12:41:04 GMT -6
I didn't have access to a computer last weekend and then got distracted by compressors today when I realized what I was using recently had a way too slow workflow. I'll get something up this weekend. I just had issues to dealS Souds great. Can't wait to hear what you come up with.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 20, 2020 2:15:21 GMT -6
Bill makes a great point, but yeah I’ll admit there are things I miss about the sound of tape, just like if you made me go back to tape there are a hell of a lot of things I would miss about digital. This is the main problem with tape simulators, you can get the distortion of tape ( that’s really what they are all about) but you can’t get what tape did right and many find wrong with digital. Not saying these plugins and boxes are bad, distortion is what we are all about, just don’t call it the sound of tape. Of course go align and reset the cards on an MCI JH24 and tell me you miss tape😁
Another thing comes to my mind.
My mentor mixes his pop tunes -hybrid- without tape and it sounds 95% like his world hits in the 80s - with tape.
How "magical" was it? Maybe not magical at all? Let's tell the truth ... he was one of the first owners of digital tape machines in town, and he was happy about it.
Another truth was he could rent his digital tape machines because a lot of people were sick using real tape.
I love it when he realigns the perspective of the so-called glory days.
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Post by craigmorris74 on Aug 20, 2020 7:44:45 GMT -6
Bill makes a great point, but yeah I’ll admit there are things I miss about the sound of tape, just like if you made me go back to tape there are a hell of a lot of things I would miss about digital. This is the main problem with tape simulators, you can get the distortion of tape ( that’s really what they are all about) but you can’t get what tape did right and many find wrong with digital. Not saying these plugins and boxes are bad, distortion is what we are all about, just don’t call it the sound of tape. Of course go align and reset the cards on an MCI JH24 and tell me you miss tape😁
Another thing comes to my mind.
My mentor mixes his pop tunes -hybrid- without tape and it sounds 95% like his world hits in the 80s - with tape.
How "magical" was it? Maybe not magical at all? Let's tell the truth ... he was one of the first owners of digital tape machines in town, and he was happy about it.
Another truth was he could rent his digital tape machines because a lot of people were sick using real tape.
I love it when he realigns the perspective of the so-called glory days.
Right. I don't ever want to fool with multi-track tape machines ever again. Hence this thread about tape sims, which allow us to impart some of the characteristics (instant limiting, harmonic distortion, head bump, top end shaping) of tape when we choose to deploy them. I'm not looking for the glory days, but looking for a specific type of useful sound shaping tool.
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Post by mcirish on Aug 20, 2020 10:15:29 GMT -6
I use Softube Tape on every drum track. For me, it just shaves off a little of the transient so I have a better starting point. For that purpose, I think it works pretty well.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 20, 2020 14:09:44 GMT -6
Another thing comes to my mind.
My mentor mixes his pop tunes -hybrid- without tape and it sounds 95% like his world hits in the 80s - with tape.
How "magical" was it? Maybe not magical at all? Let's tell the truth ... he was one of the first owners of digital tape machines in town, and he was happy about it.
Another truth was he could rent his digital tape machines because a lot of people were sick using real tape.
I love it when he realigns the perspective of the so-called glory days.
Right. I don't ever want to fool with multi-track tape machines ever again. Hence this thread about tape sims, which allow us to impart some of the characteristics (instant limiting, harmonic distortion, head bump, top end shaping) of tape when we choose to deploy them. I'm not looking for the glory days, but looking for a specific type of useful sound shaping tool.
I am with you and I did try the free Chew Tape thing. And that thing is bad news for Slate Digital. VTM sounds on drums lifeless and boring and the CHEW thing is for free... OMG
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Post by Guitar on Aug 20, 2020 16:07:01 GMT -6
Right. I don't ever want to fool with multi-track tape machines ever again. Hence this thread about tape sims, which allow us to impart some of the characteristics (instant limiting, harmonic distortion, head bump, top end shaping) of tape when we choose to deploy them. I'm not looking for the glory days, but looking for a specific type of useful sound shaping tool.
I am with you and I did try the free Chew Tape thing. And that thing is bad news for Slate Digital. VTM sounds on drums lifeless and boring and the CHEW thing is for free... OMG
Wow! I love trying free plugins. Thanks for pointing that one out. I wonder how the airwindows tape ones are too, I'm sure he has some.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 20, 2020 16:38:47 GMT -6
Just tried the CHEW TAPE plugin. I found it immediately useful. It has a fuller low end on drums than the UAD Oxide tape I was using in the track. Also tried the IK Studer 80 but the CHEW just had a little better sound.
Didn't work on my guitar track. The Black Rooster Magnetite I pulled up next was the right ticket.
Pretty good purchase for zero dollars. I'm going to remember to use it on drums next time I track.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 20, 2020 17:10:10 GMT -6
Just tried the CHEW TAPE plugin. I found it immediately useful. It has a fuller low end on drums than the UAD Oxide tape I was using in the track. Also tried the IK Studer 80 but the CHEW just had a little better sound. Didn't work on my guitar track. The Black Rooster Magnetite I pulled up next was the right ticket. Pretty good purchase for zero dollars. I'm going to remember to use it on drums next time I track.
Yes on drums no race... On the two bus VTM can shine depending on the setting extreme subtle amounts go a long way.
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Post by Quint on Aug 24, 2020 16:10:25 GMT -6
So this was just released: barthrk.eu/product/st596-analog-harmonics-processor/It seems like they are going for some sort of Anamod sort of thing, but the "math" language is vague. I've heard some bad things about quality control from this company, so I'd be a little reluctant. That being said, the price is super cheap. The current sale, plus the mix and match discount and the coupon, means you can get a pair of these for $420 plus shipping.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 24, 2020 16:12:13 GMT -6
"The End Of Your Struggle!" got to love the advertising on these things.
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