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Post by svart on Jun 29, 2020 10:52:24 GMT -6
Over the years I've gone from being cocksure to one click away from selling all my gear and calling it quits and then back again.
I never know what might trigger this, but usually working on something for so long and so hard that I feel a bit egotistical and proud of the results.. Only to hear something similar in composition but much better in result, and that just makes me want to give it up.
I recently had a hard time getting a mix up to the level of what I set for myself. I submitted the mix to the band and while they paid and said they were happy, they never posted it.
I went back after a while to listen to the mix and I was not happy with what I submitted to the band. it was nowhere near where I thought it was at the time, nor was it near the quality of the reference tracks the band submitted. I felt and still feel defeated by this. I've since gone through the mix once again and started fresh just as an exercise for my own sanity.
I still just can't seem to get it to what I hear in my head and what I'm comparing to.
Yet, over the weekend a person whom I've worked with before released a single that was recorded and mixed by a BIG name from the 80's and 90's in a lot of pop and rock records, and the result is rather.... Average sounding, and certainly well within my skill range to achieve.
And now I'm back to feeling like maybe I can do this after all.
But what I don't understand is that it seems that so many peers just don't have any feelings like this at all. Most of the folks around me just seem to be putting out whatever and moving along. Discussing this with any of them usually earns a twisted face and a shoulder shrug.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 29, 2020 11:22:21 GMT -6
I think many feel that way at times. I have a nearly debilitating case of imposter syndrome frequently.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 29, 2020 11:22:49 GMT -6
Every single time I mix a new project I feel that way. But when I listen back to something, after 6 months to a year, I'm always pleasantly surprised...so yeah, idk. I definitely have some insecurities that come up. Imposter Syndrome as some call it.
I was just talking with my buddy who is mixing an album of his own music, I was giving him mix notes and he was telling me that he's ready to throw in the towel he's so deflated...i think it's very common. I'd guess the only people who don't feel that way (at least some of the time) are either lying or not introspective enough to recognize their own insecurities.
Don't let it get you down.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 29, 2020 11:37:02 GMT -6
A mix is never finished. Only abandoned.
I feel that way at times with mixes. Im very confident with being a recording engineer. I know I can get great results almost every time.
Mixing/mastering. Still learning all the time.
And I think that's important too. The people that are really successful at this are always learning. New tools. New Tricks. New ways. If you loose that, you're done for I think.
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Post by gwlee7 on Jun 29, 2020 15:29:19 GMT -6
My learning curve is so steep right now in regards to engineering/mixing that it’s often hard for me to think that I’ll ever be any good at it.
Where I believe I have really messed myself up is in terms of thinking that my actual songwriting and musicianship is/was subpar. I kept doubting that what I was doing was ever going to be “good enough” and therefore missed the golden age of perhaps making a living at playing/touring by basically quitting. I didn’t hardly even pick up anything but golf clubs from 1997ish until just a few years ago. I now know that if something is in “your blood” you have to do it. I have a lot of catching up to do.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 29, 2020 16:04:50 GMT -6
I wanted to give up on piano sounds at Motown until one day Valerie Simpson walked over to the piano and showed the musician a little figure she wanted him to play. One of the best piano sounds I've ever heard came thundering out of the monitor followed by the same soggy sound I hated when he played it. It was a lesson I've never forgotten.
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Post by tkaitkai on Jun 29, 2020 17:32:18 GMT -6
Some thoughts: The things we hear are (thankfully) not what other people hear. We tend to obsessively focus on minutiae and get lost in the details, and oftentimes we feel unrealistic pressure to be as good as everyone else. This leads us to make weird choices that we wouldn't make otherwise, i.e. let's boost 10dB of top end on these cymbals so my mix can be as bright as X mix (without realizing that your cymbals don't need that kind of treatment for your song to sound awesome). It's important to frequently turn off the "engineer brain" and just listen to the song. Your mix doesn't need to sound as wide or deep or punchy as the reference mix. It can still sound awesome in its own right. You don't need to nail your kick drum EQ with immaculate precision in order for your song to have an impact. When A/Bing with a reference, I find it's less important to ask "does my mix sound as good?" and more important to ask "do I absolutely hate my mix in comparison?" If the answer is no, you're probably much better off than you think. I know it's almost impossible to stop analyzing the small details, but try to remember that NO ONE aside from you is ever going to give a f*ck about the exact amount of distortion on a BGV layered deep in your mix somewhere. Lastly, I think it's important to stop worrying about conventions and rules. A lot of us have a really weird sense of pride surrounding our various methodologies, and thus stand in our own way when it comes to doing whatever it takes for a song to sound great. There is no wrong way to make a sound. At the end of the day, they're all just different ways to do the same thing. If you have to rip a snare from another song to get the sound you want, who cares? If you have to use 15 different instances of Pro-Q 3 with all sorts of crazy surgical cuts and boosts, who cares? I'd also be willing to bet that your mixes don't sound half as bad as you think they do. You're probably doing just fine.
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Post by christopher on Jun 30, 2020 18:03:07 GMT -6
One thing that has really helped me is references in a separate project tab in Reaper. I have plenty of references I don’t necessarily think of as amazing mixes, as well as legendary stuff... a good handful of modern top40 songs, some “modern“ rock stuff, original vinyl rip mixes of classic stuff, remixes, Zep/doors/Pink Floyd etc, misfits etc, demos and live stuff, country music from old days to today, recent Grammy stuff.. Only thing I try to do is have it be enjoyable stuff to listen to when I am in the mood. Then just kind of jump around the tracks at random. And if I’m in a really negative mood I’ll notice most things are too dark or too bright, too loud, or too quiet, too processed, or too thin and small. And that’s ok, my ears change day to day, and my mood changes. But I do know; if I don’t LOVE my favorite references that day, I’m in for a non-productive session. I have to keep listening until I love them again, or find a new reference I do love on my speakers. Or last resort, put an EQ curve that day that makes me love them again.
And since I have “enjoyable” sounding stuff from 60s to today, I feel like it’s easier to see where my mix is currently sitting and not try to be exactly like one specific target they sent. Its sort of like a measure to see where I am, where the supplied references fit into my references, and where I think sound should be.
When I try to mix without hearing references, or if they just don’t do it for me that day, I’ll make the mix sound “better” than the references, what my ear wants to hear that day. Which I know isn’t possible.
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 30, 2020 22:21:11 GMT -6
Mixing can be humbling to be sure. I think you’ve just gotta keep swinging the hammer.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by christopher on Jul 2, 2020 13:05:39 GMT -6
... also we shouldn’t be so hard on ourselves. Easy to say, as I need to finish some mixes that are haunting me. A revelation occurred though by comparing references: today’s mixes aren’t the best, but since they are so faked it can make the greatest mixes of all time sound inferior. It’s like comparing apples to oranges. If you or I made a mix like early zeppelin or the doors, or even 90s rock, it would be immediately dismissed as amateur in this instant gratification society. It took time for the listener to invest into enjoying the best stuff, and it grew on them. Today the world wants sugar.. 110% instant satisfaction, switch to something else in 3-5 minutes.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 2, 2020 13:17:51 GMT -6
I really believe references should be kept to an absolute minimum. I don't really use them. I'm working on the thing in front of me, not the thing elsewhere. I'll reference other songs from the same project. Maybe occasionally another song(s) from the same artist, previous projects.
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Post by christopher on Jul 2, 2020 14:12:17 GMT -6
References for me have become mostly about basically calibrating my ears to the monitoring, that’s it. Trying to match up to something won’t work, having a spread allows me to remember.. hey I might not have a Vulfpeck snare, but I like the Betty Davis snare better anyway, and I’m closer to that so I’m good..
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Post by tkaitkai on Jul 2, 2020 15:20:30 GMT -6
I really believe references should be kept to an absolute minimum. I don't really use them. I'm working on the thing in front of me, not the thing elsewhere. I'll reference other songs from the same project. Maybe occasionally another song(s) from the same artist, previous projects. Yep. I do use references frequently, but when I stopped trying to make my mixes sound exactly like another mix, my work improved dramatically. I basically use them just to make sure I'm in the same ballpark. Mostly just making sure nothing sounds weird/off when I flip back and forth, i.e. "Would my song hold its own in a playlist with this song?"
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Post by jamiesego on Jul 3, 2020 10:18:05 GMT -6
I had someone visiting the studio last week and I plugged the phone in and played one of his band’s songs and then later played one I had recorded and mine sounded like mush. I constantly think that my enthusiasm for recording and amount of time and money I’ve invested isn’t translating to actual results.
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Post by svart on Jul 3, 2020 20:27:22 GMT -6
I had someone visiting the studio last week and I plugged the phone in and played one of his band’s songs and then later played one I had recorded and mine sounded like mush. I constantly think that my enthusiasm for recording and amount of time and money I’ve invested isn’t translating to actual results. That's how I feel sometimes. I enjoy doing it, but I also enjoy pushing myself. I spent years just doing as I felt like doing and I think I did myself a disservice by not constantly trying to one-up the next guy. There's a local guy that I've lost a couple potential clients to lately that is just sucking up all the potential artists. The stuff he's producing just sounds phenomenal for a young guy who's only been doing it professionally for a couple years, and I constantly reference his stuff and my stuff just sounds mushy and lifeless compared to his no matter what I do. It's maddening. It seems like it's just no big deal to him.
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Post by jamiesego on Jul 3, 2020 20:52:22 GMT -6
I had someone visiting the studio last week and I plugged the phone in and played one of his band’s songs and then later played one I had recorded and mine sounded like mush. I constantly think that my enthusiasm for recording and amount of time and money I’ve invested isn’t translating to actual results. That's how I feel sometimes. I enjoy doing it, but I also enjoy pushing myself. I spent years just doing as I felt like doing and I think I did myself a disservice by not constantly trying to one-up the next guy. There's a local guy that I've lost a couple potential clients to lately that is just sucking up all the potential artists. The stuff he's producing just sounds phenomenal for a young guy who's only been doing it professionally for a couple years, and I constantly reference his stuff and my stuff just sounds mushy and lifeless compared to his no matter what I do. It's maddening. It seems like it's just no big deal to him. Yeah I run into the same thing all the time. Around here there are some younger talented people as well as some older pros who really know what they’re doing. I hate to think of music as a competition but I also want to do well with it. Just have to keep grinding I guess.
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