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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 20, 2020 14:05:12 GMT -6
So if I were to get the new mini, does that mean that nothing will work yet at all ala Pro Tools, UAD? Or will it just have issues? I'm having trouble controlling my gas.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 20, 2020 15:10:00 GMT -6
UA is not a Big Sur or M1 certified, BS will be first, M1 second, according to Drew, so I think just rme and Stienberg are BS compatible now ?
For UA, could be a bit of a wait?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 20, 2020 15:13:09 GMT -6
So if I were to get the new mini, does that mean that nothing will work yet at all ala Pro Tools, UAD? Or will it just have issues? I'm having trouble controlling my gas. Good question, putting on the hat of a former DAW builder and as your friend, WAIT. Let me say it again WAIT. Here is the voice of experience you just don’t know, Avid UA and Apple don’t know, they will all blame each other, then they will make changes without informing each other new problems will rear there ugly head and the blame game begins again. I built a PT rig many years ago in a similar situation, sure the guys one an Oscar a year later for the work on that machine, but my name should probably be on that award simply because it spent as much time with me as it did with them. In this case it was simply Avid and Apple but it was always the other guys fault. In the same time frame all my builds using the prior Apple platform except one were rock solid. In fact I tried to get my eventual Oscar winning clients to buy one of those old rigs from another client. Yeah I admit I’ll probably bite by the end of January, but I used to get paid just to go through this BS. What adds to my fears on this particular go round is the number of large scale users who work with all of these guys who are normally the guinea pigs that are closed down because of COVID.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2020 14:46:22 GMT -6
Interesting article www.macworld.com/article/3597569/with-m1-macs-memory-isnt-what-it-used-to-be.amp.html?__twitter_impression=trueWith M1 Macs, memory isn't what it used to be Apple has changed the way RAM is used in a computer. Jason Snell 13in m1 mbp desk angle IDG The first Macs powered by Apple-designed processors are finally here. And from the outside, they’re almost dead ringers for the Intel-based Macs they’re replacing. But on the inside, they’re not like other computers. Apple has brought its approach to system design, learned through years of iteration on the iPhone and iPad, to the Mac for the first time. For great holiday deals on Apple gear see our roundup of the best Black Friday deals on iPads, AirPods, Watches, MacBooks, and more. Those of us who are used to thinking of personal computers in certain terms are going to need to adjust to this new reality. It’s a world in which Apple sells three different Mac models without even disclosing the clock speed of the processor inside. (It doesn’t do it for the iPhone or iPad, after all.) But perhaps the item on the spec sheet that will require the biggest diversion from the old way of thinking is system memory. It’s a feature that’s already frequently misunderstood (and frequently confused with storage size), and now Macs with Apple silicon are using it in an entirely different way. The old way of thinking of RAM is dead. Welcome to the world of the Unified Memory Architecture. Part of the package Like Intel chips with integrated graphics, the M1 chip includes a graphics processor, and system memory is shared by both processor cores and graphics cores. (And also, in the M1’s case, the cores that make up the Neural Engine.) But in shifting its terminology to describe a unified memory architecture, Apple’s trying to point out that the M1’s approach is a bit different. The biggest difference is that in the M1, the memory is a part of the M1 architecture itself. There’s no memory slot or slots on the motherboard of an M1 Mac, nor is there an area where a memory chip has been permanently soldered on. Instead, the memory is integrated into the same package that contains the M1 itself. What this means is that when you buy an M1-based Mac and choose a memory configuration, that’s it. There have been many other Macs with soldered-on memory that couldn’t be upgraded, but this is a little different, since the memory is basically part of the M1 package itself. m1 mac mini top angle IDG The first round of Apple silicon Macs, which include the Mac mini, can have a maximum of 16GB of memory. That could be by design. Looking at the first round of M1 Macs, it seems that the M1 is only capable of using 8GB or 16GB of memory. That may not actually be a hard limit—perhaps Apple is holding back in order to limit these low-end systems. But it’s more likely that we won’t see Macs running Apple silicon with more than 16GB until Apple provides a higher-end variant of the M1. Benefits of being unified But Apple isn’t integrating memory into its systems-on-a-chip out of spite. It’s doing it because it’s an approach that can lead to some dramatic speed benefits. The M1 processor’s memory is a single pool that’s accessible by any portion of the processor. If the system needs more memory for graphics, it can allocate that. If it needs more memory for the Neural Engine, likewise. Even better, because all the aspects of the processor can access all of the system memory, there’s no performance hit when the graphics cores need to access something that was previously being accessed by a processor core. On other systems, the data has to be copied from one portion of memory to another—but on the M1, it’s just instantly accessible. Apple These new Macs are, in their way, kind of alien. The tradition in personal computers was that everything was modular, an outgrowth of the early PC era. Even though the Mac never participated in the build-a-PC ethos, the parts Apple used to assemble Macs came from that industry. Compare that with the smartphone, where Apple has continued to integrate more portions of the system into its single processor package in order to increase efficiency. These new Macs are far more like smartphones than like traditional PCs. Do you need it? One of the biggest criticisms I’ve seen about this first round of M1 Macs has been that they just don’t offer enough memory, maxing out at 16GB. Keeping in mind that these are the lowest-powered Mac models, it’s likely that future models will offer more RAM options. But it’s also worth considering just how squishy the need for more memory can be when you poke at it. Sure, a lot of people feel they need it—but do they, really? Yes, when a Mac runs out of physical memory, it will page the contents of memory to disk—and even super-fast SSDs are slower than main memory! Though the speed differences are a lot less than back when we used slow spinning disk drives. Apple An Apple silicon Mac Pro with only 16GB of memory? It won't happen. You'll see Apple silicon with more RAM and processing power in the near future. What would cause your Mac to run out of physical memory? If you leave an awful lot of apps open at once, or if your browser has hundreds of tabs open, or if you’re using an app that loads a very large file (like, say, a Photoshop file) into memory. If you’re someone who does this a lot, you probably want more memory.... but then again, if you’re someone who does this a lot, you might not want to buy one an M1 Mac right now. The mid-range and high-end models that will undoubtedly offer more RAM options and more processor power are undoubtedly coming next year. But if you combine the efficiency of the unified memory architecture with the speed of SSD storage, and consider most everyday use cases, I’m pretty sure that most regular users could get by with 8GB of unified memory—or, if you want to be absolutely sure, upgrade that to 16GB. (I did.) What’s next? I can’t imagine 2021 passing without Apple rolling out a new set of Macs with more powerful processors and more memory options. The high-end MacBook Pros and the iMacs, at the very least, could use updates that provide some options beyond the basic M1. In the long run, is it possible that Apple would build systems with external graphics processors with their own dedicated memory? It seems inevitable, at least at the high end—what’s a Mac Pro for if you can’t stick a ridiculous graphics card in it? But Apple is also very likely to just keep scaling up memory options as it scales up its processors, adding more memory as it adds cores—and those chips are the ones likely to be offered in most Mac models. The unified memory architecture in the M1 is one of the reasons these Macs are so amazingly fast—but all Mac users are going to have to relinquish some of our assumptions about how our computers work, and how they’re configured. And if you really can’t bear buying any Mac with only 16GB of RAM, don’t get mad—be patient. More Apple silicon Macs are on the way.
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Post by nashbass on Dec 11, 2020 18:15:35 GMT -6
Boy, this thread sure took off!
I'm narrowing it down and I am now leaning toward the new 16" MacBook Pro. It'll keep me very portable and when I am stationary I can easily mirror it to a flat screen TV, as I would do if I had a Mac Mini anyway. So, probably my last point of consideration....
The 16" MacBook Pro comes stock with 16GB of memory. Would you recommend upgrading to 32GB so it is fully prepared for any tracking / editing / virtual instruments / mixing scenario? Of is 16GB sufficient?
Thank you all!
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 11, 2020 18:57:57 GMT -6
Boy, this thread sure took off! I'm narrowing it down and I am now leaning toward the new 16" MacBook Pro. It'll keep me very portable and when I am stationary I can easily mirror it to a flat screen TV, as I would do if I had a Mac Mini anyway. So, probably my last point of consideration.... The 16" MacBook Pro comes stock with 16GB of memory. Would you recommend upgrading to 32GB so it is fully prepared for any tracking / editing / virtual instruments / mixing scenario? Of is 16GB sufficient? Thank you all! I wouldn’t buy an Intel Mac right now unless absolutely necessary.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 11, 2020 20:11:50 GMT -6
^^This^^ If you need it ASAP then sure intel is the option, but the m1 is blowin the doors off intel macs I have seen and having much lower heat, so no or little fan noise. UA will be big Sur but not yet mi certified next week but there is a dedicated team working on m1 and it’s the next priority. I am very close to buying an m1 mini, 16 g 1/2 gig drive, with the new owc tb4 doc you can run multiple monitors if that’s your thing?
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Post by nashbass on Dec 12, 2020 11:13:01 GMT -6
Boy, this thread sure took off! I'm narrowing it down and I am now leaning toward the new 16" MacBook Pro. It'll keep me very portable and when I am stationary I can easily mirror it to a flat screen TV, as I would do if I had a Mac Mini anyway. So, probably my last point of consideration.... The 16" MacBook Pro comes stock with 16GB of memory. Would you recommend upgrading to 32GB so it is fully prepared for any tracking / editing / virtual instruments / mixing scenario? Of is 16GB sufficient? Thank you all! I wouldn’t buy an Intel Mac right now unless absolutely necessary. I might be able to hold off a little while longer but not much. I've been using an Apogee Duet for a number of years and I'd rather not have to jump into another interface as well. And as of a few days ago, from Apogee: "At the moment there is no maestro software compatibility for Duet on Mac M1 Silicon Macs specifically, this is expected to be compatible in a future update."
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 12, 2020 11:33:29 GMT -6
I’ve been really happy with my 2020 imac. Way more power than I need. Everything just works. Computers will always get more and more powerful. I’m still content with my decision to buy into what’s compatible at the moment, and jump into Apple Silicone after a few generations.
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Post by ragan on Dec 12, 2020 11:59:41 GMT -6
Me too. The 2020 iMac is a beast of a machine and I’m glad I got it. Major paradigm shift at Apple for sure and I’ll be glad to jump in some years down the road when everything is proven and solid.
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Post by nashbass on Dec 12, 2020 12:15:46 GMT -6
Just saw that the 16" MacBook Pro with the M1 chip won't be around until the third quarter of 2021. Don't think I'll be waiting that long. So... Would you recommend upgrading to 32GB so it is fully prepared for any tracking / editing / virtual instruments / mixing scenario? Of is 16GB sufficient?
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Post by dmo on Dec 12, 2020 12:33:47 GMT -6
i picked up a 16" MBP in july as my 2011 couldn't upgrade OS to support UAD Luna - I went full 64 GB RAM but imagine 32 is enough for most projects/usage. It doesn't get as hot as the 2011 and the fans usually aren't very noticeable - I think it's a reasonable option if you need something now while everyone updates software for the new apple processors, but I recognize I may want to update again in a year or two based on the apparent performance improvements with the newer processor.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 12, 2020 12:47:05 GMT -6
Just saw that the 16" MacBook Pro with the M1 chip won't be around until the third quarter of 2021. Don't think I'll be waiting that long. So... Would you recommend upgrading to 32GB so it is fully prepared for any tracking / editing / virtual instruments / mixing scenario? Of is 16GB sufficient? Totally depends on what kind of work you do. If you're mostly audio or algorithm-VI based, 16GB might be fine. If you're a sample-based VI man, I'd go 32GB to be safe. But again, I would register my concern with that model in particular. The Apple Silicon Macs are proving to be much faster at a much lower price point and wattage. The iMac is one thing, but the 16" MBP is a different situation. Just think carefully before you take the plunge. If it's your best option, it's your best option, but I'd at least take a couple days to thoroughly research what might work for you in an M1 Mac. Watch some YouTube vids. Maybe a 13" MBP (or even Air) with an external monitor might work for you. No harm in thinking through all the options.
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Post by nashbass on Dec 12, 2020 17:58:47 GMT -6
Just saw that the 16" MacBook Pro with the M1 chip won't be around until the third quarter of 2021. Don't think I'll be waiting that long. So... Would you recommend upgrading to 32GB so it is fully prepared for any tracking / editing / virtual instruments / mixing scenario? Of is 16GB sufficient? Totally depends on what kind of work you do. If you're mostly audio or algorithm-VI based, 16GB might be fine. If you're a sample-based VI man, I'd go 32GB to be safe. But again, I would register my concern with that model in particular. The Apple Silicon Macs are proving to be much faster at a much lower price point and wattage. The iMac is one thing, but the 16" MBP is a different situation. Just think carefully before you take the plunge. If it's your best option, it's your best option, but I'd at least take a couple days to thoroughly research what might work for you in an M1 Mac. Watch some YouTube vids. Maybe a 13" MBP (or even Air) with an external monitor might work for you. No harm in thinking through all the options. I really appreciate your input, Mark. I'm factoring in the need to be mobile (hence, the MacBook Pro as opposed to an iMac) and needing/wanting the larger size. Add to that the fact that Apogee hasn't worked out any compatibility yet between the Duet interface and the M1 chip.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 14, 2020 13:49:12 GMT -6
Does anyone have prediction or knowledge as to how long intel based macs will be supported since Apple will have M1 AS as priority for app & SW devs could intel based Macs face a shelving or lack of priority due to this?
Maybe I’m wrong but it seems developer teams ex: UAD would have to have their stuff working on two platforms under mac intel & AS & we already know how audio companies are now.
Should I be concerned or very concerned purchasing a new intel Mac atp?
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 14, 2020 14:17:40 GMT -6
Does anyone have prediction or knowledge as to how long intel based macs will be supported since Apple will have M1 AS as priority for app & SW devs could intel based Macs face a shelving or lack of priority due to this? Maybe I’m wrong but it seems developer teams ex: UAD would have to have their stuff working on two platforms under mac intel & AS & we already know how audio companies are now. Should I be concerned or very concerned purchasing a new intel Mac atp? I'm sure Intel Macs will continue to be supported by Apple for a few years. The question will probably be stuff like you brought up re: UAD. How long will they maintain two sets of everything? Every feature upgrade to LUNA, for example. At some point, they'll stop making new versions of things that support both Apple Silicon and Intel Macs. Will that be 5yrs? 2yrs? 10yrs? Who knows. I would probably guess 4-5 yrs, but that's just a total guess. If you're in a spot where you could hold off on a new Mac purchase for 6 more months, I would probably recommend doing that. Whenever the new m-based iMac lands, that's when we'll know more about the future, I think. And that could be as soon as summer 2021. If all major DAW and interface manufacturers are onboard with AS by then, there will be no real reason left to buy Intel. EDIT: Though of course, if you need a new Mac RIGHT NOW, I'm sure the last-gen Intel Macs will all be great computers for you.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 14, 2020 14:37:14 GMT -6
They are required to be supported for seven years after the last one is discontinued. The thing is that "supported" does not mean optimal.
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Post by svart on Dec 14, 2020 19:41:58 GMT -6
Just worked with a producer who brought his Mac to the studio. He didn't know all the specifics about his box but my little SFF I bought for 600$ held it's own against his multiple thousand dollar mac.
Just sayin.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Dec 14, 2020 23:34:04 GMT -6
Seems like RME have their drivers working on M1.
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Post by javamad on Dec 15, 2020 4:07:59 GMT -6
I got the 2020 iMac 27’ and I’m super happy.
I had been running it on the basic 8gb Ram while waiting for the 64 I got from OWC UK.
The ram only arrived yesterday but I had been able to use Logic and Luna with audio only sessions no problem but once I added a few VI’s things got a bit glitchy.
I am happy to wait out till the Mx chips get broader support. I don’t want to be explaining to a client that I was on the bleeding edge to I can’t get something to work.
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Post by nashbass on Jan 14, 2021 10:26:03 GMT -6
The M1 chip is built for, and is only compatible with, Big Sur. And Big Sur is not compatible with Pro Tools. From what I have read and heard, the M1 is also not downgrade-able to Catalina. So that does rule out any Macs with the M1 chip.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 14, 2021 10:45:25 GMT -6
The M1 chip is built for, and is only compatible with, Big Sur. And Big Sur is not compatible with Pro Tools. From what I have read and heard, the M1 is also not downgrade-able to Catalina. So that does rule out any Macs with the M1 chip. I really don’t know what I’m talking about, but can’t it run pro tools with Rosetta or whatever? My understanding is all these stress tests are running with Rosetta and still getting amazing results...and will be even better when Pt becomes compatible.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 14, 2021 12:06:39 GMT -6
I may be in a situation where I’m going to have to get an M1 Mini for a couple upcoming video projects. I was hoping to hold out a few more months, but may not be able to wait.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 14, 2021 12:09:50 GMT -6
The M1 chip is built for, and is only compatible with, Big Sur. And Big Sur is not compatible with Pro Tools. From what I have read and heard, the M1 is also not downgrade-able to Catalina. So that does rule out any Macs with the M1 chip. I really don’t know what I’m talking about, but can’t it run pro tools with Rosetta or whatever? My understanding is all these stress tests are running with Rosetta and still getting amazing results...and will be even better when Pt becomes compatible. Some of this depends on how many issues PT has (or doesn’t have) with Big Sur, as you can’t downgrade the OS. But yes, most studio guys are running their DAWs in Rosetta 2 mode - even some Logic guys, due to 3rd party plugins working better that way.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2021 11:36:52 GMT -6
I may be in a situation where I’m going to have to get an M1 Mini for a couple upcoming video projects. I was hoping to hold out a few more months, but may not be able to wait. If your using Final Cut, it should be great, it still seems to be when you go outside the Apple universe that it gets slow.
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