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Post by chessparov on Apr 9, 2020 12:47:49 GMT -6
Looking to learn, beyond my present level of knowledge/opinion. Hoping also, we can keep things at least reasonably civil in discussion. I realize this is a touchy subject for many people.
Also could the present situation kick start more manufacturing here in North America, and also Europe/Down Under/Elsewhere? Your thoughts are welcome. Thanks, Chris P.S. I guess "Worldwide" instead of just "US" in the title, would have been better.
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Post by svart on Apr 9, 2020 13:13:19 GMT -6
Looking to learn, beyond my present level of knowledge/opinion. Hoping also, we can keep things at least reasonably civil in discussion. I realize this is a touchy subject for many people. Also could the present situation kick start more manufacturing here in North America, and also Europe/Down Under/Elsewhere? Your thoughts are welcome. Thanks, Chris Sure it helps them. By far their biggest customer for most chinese wares is the USA. Otherwise you'd have a billion people unemployed instead of just a quarter billion. There is a huge dichotomy in china between those who go to cities to work and those who don't. The majority of the country by area is dirt-poor yet some of the "party" members are the richest people in china and the world. The only middle ground is in manufacturing or in the educated workforce (programming, engineering, etc). For most manufacturing in china you can hire 15 floor workers for the cost of one union-scale employee here and each one of those chinese workers generally has 2x the throughput as a single american counterpart. It's the unfortunate truth and some will take issue with it, but it's factual. There's a thousand people for every skilled job over there and the pressure to perform drives them to go above and beyond anything we'd do over here. If they don't meet quota, they'll be replaced. For educated employees, it's about 5 master's level employees for every 1 bachelor level here. They all have kids and want TVs and to be healthy and live, just like we do. The problem is that the US customer at large does not want to pay US manufacturing prices. Unions, taxes, red tape, etc, have all conspired to keep prices on US made goods much higher than those from China. The big push in "made in the USA" or "buy american" didn't do much at all because it always comes down to cost. China has also done as much as they can to keep trade costs and monetary conversion in their favor for a long time and that has been roundly ignored by most of our government cycles under the guise of a world market. What would bring jobs back is a prolonged recession where a glut of skilled workers would be willing to accept lesser wages to be more competitive with china at large.
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Post by cyrano on Apr 10, 2020 17:34:27 GMT -6
The real funny thing is that most consumer stuff that's labelled "Made In The USA" isn't made in the USA, but in Mexico, China or some other capital-friendly country. A popular brand like Milwaukee (hand-tools) isn't even owned by Americans anymore. The owners are in Malaysia, production is in Hong-Kong, Taiwan or Indonesia.
Hec, there's even a small town in China that's called "Germany". The biggest business there is brand registration. It allows manufacturer's from all over the world to put "Made In Germany" on their boxes.
So it's at least a bit naive to believe labelling of any product and very naive to believe it matters what we choose.
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Post by svart on Apr 10, 2020 18:16:22 GMT -6
The real funny thing is that most consumer stuff that's labelled "Made In The USA" isn't made in the USA, but in Mexico, China or some other capital-friendly country. A popular brand like Milwaukee (hand-tools) isn't even owned by Americans anymore. The owners are in Malaysia, production is in Hong-Kong, Taiwan or Indonesia. Hec, there's even a small town in China that's called "Germany". The biggest business there is brand registration. It allows manufacturer's from all over the world to put "Made In Germany" on their boxes. So it's at least a bit naive to believe labelling of any product and very naive to believe it matters what we choose. You know what's funny? I just bought a little magnifier that says "made in germany" on it in big letters, but on the box in tiny little script it says "made in china". It's clearly cheap chinese workmanship, not german workmanship. But then again I paid 10$ for it, not 100$. I laughed to myself saying "I bet they named one of their cities Germany so they could get away with it".
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Post by cyrano on Apr 10, 2020 18:24:19 GMT -6
You see?
We are lead to believe anything printed. I'll believe it when I see it. Believing is infinitely easier than knowing. You wouldn't buy a mic from it's spec sheet, would you?
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Post by svart on Apr 10, 2020 18:29:46 GMT -6
You see? We are lead to believe anything printed. I'll believe it when I see it. Believing is infinitely easier than knowing. You wouldn't buy a mic from it's spec sheet, would you? I have, and I learned my lesson because of it too. In china they have no laws against outright lying in marketing. Occasionally someone gets in trouble with The Party over something big and it all kinda gets more realistic for a bit until it blows over. It's a culture thing though. We see marketing as True or Lie, they see it as "buy this stuff at any cost so we can survive".
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Post by cyrano on Apr 11, 2020 17:11:09 GMT -6
I spent nearly 20 years inside the marketing industry, only not as a marketeer, but as an IT person. Marketing for every major computer brand out there, except Microsoft. I've never seen anything but lies. Intel lies about speed and temperatures fi. Apple lies about reliability. And so on...
Maybe the only thing that separates us from the Chinese, is that these companies make boatloads of cash where the Chinese sell cheaper stuff and make much less. But watch out for them. Any idea how many companies they've taken over? The list is very long and they are not done yet. They seem to have adapted typical US business strategies. Mind you, not copied, but analysed and improved.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086
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Post by ericn on Apr 12, 2020 17:54:57 GMT -6
The real funny thing is that most consumer stuff that's labelled "Made In The USA" isn't made in the USA, but in Mexico, China or some other capital-friendly country. A popular brand like Milwaukee (hand-tools) isn't even owned by Americans anymore. The owners are in Malaysia, production is in Hong-Kong, Taiwan or Indonesia. Hec, there's even a small town in China that's called "Germany". The biggest business there is brand registration. It allows manufacturer's from all over the world to put "Made In Germany" on their boxes. So it's at least a bit naive to believe labelling of any product and very naive to believe it matters what we choose. There are standards for “ made in the USA “ and “assembled in the USA” it’s part of the commerce code. Being in violation can not only mean a fine but also mean surrounding your inventory.
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