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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 5, 2020 18:49:55 GMT -6
I’m not trying to get political - and if it goes south, I’ll just delete. I also realize, that finding a piece of pro audio without ANY Chinese parts is difficult...but are you willing to pay more for non-Chinese made pro audio?
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Post by geoff738 on Apr 5, 2020 18:56:12 GMT -6
In a word, yes. That was also,the case before all this unpleasantness.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Apr 5, 2020 18:58:08 GMT -6
That said I’m considering buying a lower end Eastman mando. Probably not gonna happen, but aim not ruling it out either.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 5, 2020 19:16:31 GMT -6
I'm willing to pay more to support local businesses, but it has nothing to do with Chinese origins. I just like to support the local community as much as I can. And by local I mean city and then state.
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Post by geoff738 on Apr 5, 2020 19:19:36 GMT -6
Plus dogears, Audioscape etc are making interesting things. The Canuck buck has taken a big hit in this, so we’ll see, but hopefully there will be some audio goodies in my future from folks I heard about here,
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 5, 2020 19:37:34 GMT -6
I avoid all food or dog toys that came through China. I also would pay more for an all American piece of gear, but it must be better because of that. Don't forget though, many American's livelihoods are connected with China. Car manufacturing, dealers, repair shops, is one small example.
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Post by aremos on Apr 5, 2020 19:47:06 GMT -6
I’m not trying to get political - and if it goes south, I’ll just delete. I also realize, that finding a piece of pro audio without ANY Chinese parts is difficult...but are you willing to pay more for non-Chinese made pro audio? YES! Without any doubt.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 5, 2020 20:53:55 GMT -6
I avoid all food or dog toys that came through China. I also would pay more for an all American piece of gear, but it must be better because of that. Don't forget though, many American's livelihoods are connected with China. Car manufacturing, dealers, repair shops, is one small example. Yeah...can’t completely throw the baby out with the bath water...but things are going to be different - at least for me.
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Post by reddirt on Apr 5, 2020 21:13:06 GMT -6
If the eqpt is ethical ( Im looking at you, Behringer) I'll still be in as amongst the plethora of crap there is good stuff being made much like japan in the 60s.
E.G. My mate has a lower end Eastmann mando and its a very solid inst easily worth the money ; another fine guitarist whose last album I did has just parked his custom shop Martin for the Eastmann 10 ss/v which is a J 45 copy. This fella makes his own instruments so he knows his stuff and even though he balked at the Made in China tag, he was hooked on the quality whichever way he looked at it so he maxed his credit card to do it even though he wasnt intending to buy another instrument. Thus, I am now looking at their line for an acoustic as well.
Ive never bought their food products and In other situations if a local product isn't vastly more expensive i'll buy local everytime as its quite probably better quality and should be supported - this virus has shown that dropping home production and relying on cheaper off-shore can bite us on the arse big time. .
Coronavirus hasn't caused me not to buy Chinese per se but it has made me think more local if possible and deepened my mistrust of the Chinese leadership and what they dont say in order to save face or to actively promote their imperialist ambitions.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 22:12:29 GMT -6
Yes if I can find something better. Many Chinese manufacturers are just plain old unethical while the clones and outsourced gear tend to be pretty bad. There are some gems but most of the pro and hifi gear made there is just dodgy. China just doesn't make very good audio electronics or reliable cables. The decent sounding digital made there isn't cheap. The Focusrite Rednets aren't awful but cost a ton. The UAD Apollos are also fairly highly priced for the sound.
For analog studio gear, most of it totally sucks. Focusrite and UA made in China pretty much just suck compared to the older units. All of the Chinese clones are pretty much lofi and can't be pushed. If they weren't cost reduced, then the manufacturers wouldn't be able to earn that big of a profit vs the real thing or western alternatives. Anything made by Behringer or Music Group tends to be defective by design. You're better off with plugins, non China interface pres, FMR, Capi, Audioscape, Daking, etc than most made in China electronics.
Chinese made monitors? Some of them are good due to the oem driver industry there. Unless the manufacturer makes their own drivers like ATC or Focal, chances are they use Chinese drivers anyway. You'll often find one size in each line of Chinese made monitors is pretty decent while the rest in the line are pretty bad or have glaring midrange issues. The JBL LSR 305 mkII, Kali LP6, KRK V6S4 are all very good for the price. Fostex 6301 is a very good grotbox. These are all designed by foreign to China companies and just made there. I couldn't actually find anything active I liked mixing on more than the KRKs for under 2k a pair. A lot of off-brand monitors are made by oems on the side from templates.
Mics? Hit or miss. Most of the Chinese condensers are kinda forward. The ribbons can be killer for the price. The good Chinese dynamics aren't that cheap and are usually less reliable than Western made ones. I like the CAD D80 and D82 but the balls cheap CAD 3 packs are muddy shit compared to Shures on many sources ime.
If you look at hi-fi gear, almost anything that doesn't cost thousands coming out of China made by a Chinese brand sucks. All of the webforum hyped cheap Chinese gear pretty much sucks. The good Chinese hi-fi gear usually costs a shit ton of money and is targeted at nouveau riche Chinese audiophiles who want something made in China. Tons of Chinese actually want Western made gear, both pro and hifi, because they know it will work.
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Post by chessparov on Apr 6, 2020 0:17:22 GMT -6
Other than replacing a low end USB Interface, or a low cost gem-Like an AKG P120 (black)... I think I'm done, for at least a long time. Most all of my eventual "wish list" is non-China, at this point. A GAP-73 Jr. or Alctron UA 710 might be fun to mess around, with my low end interfaces. But a Daking Mic One Pre, is a steal at $550 for what you get. And a handy excuse to get an interface upgrade! There are exceptional products, like Vanguard/3U Audio/AA though, for their price point. My U195 has a (fine) Chinese capsule in it, but David Bock oversees things very well indeed. (Soundelux handbuilt here in the US though) That kind of QC is critical IMHO. Chris P.S. Great thread topic. Well I suppose, the AA CM800T is a temptation for 2021. Knowing that Dave Thomas is involved, and it has the Paul G. "stamp of approval", makes it easier to consider!
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 6, 2020 3:54:43 GMT -6
I’m sure someone can confirm or deny this but I read a long while ago that it’s plainly impossible not to use parts made in China because there are no US companies making resistors and capacitors anymore, or at least not the most needed/common ones.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 4:23:51 GMT -6
I only tend to have bought over the years either classic gear that retained it's value or new gear made in my country for easy servicing.
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Post by Ward on Apr 6, 2020 7:15:04 GMT -6
The most obvious reason to say "Yes, I am LESS likely to buy gear sourced from China" is because of what has happened to the world since the COVID19 shutdown in China.
Global pollution has dropped by up to 90% - according to some purported experts.
There are very very few environmental controls in China and as a result, their manufacturing is a very dirty process. It is very disturbing. For the first time in decades, skies were clear over China. People could actually breathe. The toxicity levels in the environment fell dramatically.
But then there's the news today that Chairman Xi Jiping is planning on doubling China's output this year to over $13 Trillion. Double what 2019 was. There's a lot of pollution comes with that!
That's gravely concerning. Does mainland China make some good stuff? Sure. But the overwhelming majority is plastic crap which is destroying the pacific ocean and polluting the planet in general. It might be wise to bear that in mind. I'm not one of those Greenpeace political types, but pollution and toxicity levels must be curbed and dealing with China until they get that under control is a bad idea.
JMHO. And this is NOT political.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 6, 2020 7:25:38 GMT -6
Other than the tragedy of lives lost, lots of possible positive lessons learned about what the new future normal might look like.
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Post by tskguy on Apr 6, 2020 7:51:50 GMT -6
Hey all, I have a unique perspective on this.. As you guys know Heiserman products are 99% sourced from non China suppliers. Like mentioned above its very difficult to completely avoid it from the component level. Although we do try!! The reason for me to even comment has to do with large amount of deception I see from some others that will remain unnamed on here. Honestly I can count on one hand regarding mic companies that actually manufacture the metal work themselves. 95 percent of these guys source contract manufactured mics and then maybe add a new component thats sourced state side and then call it either manufactured or assembled in the USA. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out by the way! look at the prices!! That all being said I do not blame the folks that have chosen to go down this road! It's really the fault of large retail outlets demanding 30 percent or more in terms of margin. And that's after the distribution company takes their 30 percent.. And that's top down!! It basically either forces you to a direct model like we do or go to China and have 90% of your mic built for 45 bucks a piece. And yes that turns into a $400 dollar mic! Ok maybe 399
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Post by Ward on Apr 6, 2020 8:15:02 GMT -6
Hey all, I have a unique perspective on this.. As you guys know Heiserman products are 99% sourced from non China suppliers. Like mentioned above its very difficult to completely avoid it from the component level. Although we do try!! The reason for me to even comment has to do with large amount of deception I see from some others that will remain unnamed on here. Honestly I can count on one hand regarding mic companies that actually manufacture the metal work themselves. 95 percent of these guys source contract manufactured mics and then maybe add a new component thats sourced state side and then call it either manufactured or assembled in the USA. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out by the way! look at the prices!! That all being said I do not blame the folks that have chosen to go down this road! It's really the fault of large retail outlets demanding 30 percent or more in terms of margin. And that's after the distribution company takes their 30 percent.. And that's top down!! It basically either forces you to a direct model like we do or go to China and have 90% of your mic built for 45 bucks a piece. And yes that turns into a $400 dollar mic! Ok maybe 399 Do you think you can come up with a new mic that meets you specs and I could use on high toms and some vocal duties and other special things . . . and would be black and small and have blue LEDs? I mean, I dreamt about such a thing once and every so often it pops in my head. MUCH LOVE!! You're awesome.
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Post by sozocaps on Apr 6, 2020 8:49:19 GMT -6
I’m not trying to get political - and if it goes south, I’ll just delete. I also realize, that finding a piece of pro audio without ANY Chinese parts is difficult...but are you willing to pay more for non-Chinese made pro audio? 100% yes..... what they have been doing with stealing intellectual property and now what they did to the world ( which is killed thousands) is inexcusable....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 9:20:58 GMT -6
I'm having a hard time understanding this thread, is the central question in some way related to the corona chrisis at hand? If so, in what way?
Some of the comments seem as if China is directly to be blamed for the virus and people are therefor overthinking their purchasing decisions. Do I understand this correct or is there something getting lost in translation?
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 9:25:39 GMT -6
Yeah...it also hit home reading about the arrest of the Harvard scientist and the two Chinese Nationals. China explicitly recruiting American scientists to steal intellectual property. Now it’s not just songs and how to make a stereo...it’s existential.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 9:38:25 GMT -6
I'm having a hard time understanding this thread, is the central question in some way related to the corona chrisis at hand? If so, in what way? Some of the comments seem as if China is directly to be blamed for the virus and people are therefor overthinking their purchasing decisions. Do I understand this correct or is there something getting lost in translation? I’m not hiding anything. Yes, China should be blamed for Covid-19. It is widely suspected that it was a bat disease being researched at the Wuhan University of Tech...next to the illegal wet markets that China refuses to close. On top of that, China had been illicitly recruiting scientists for their Chinese Talents Plan. Illegally stealing proprietary and intellectual property from the world to further Chinese scientific development. That’s not some kook conspiracy - that’s the TRUTH. You can see it yourself from the Department of Justice. www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-relatedI have nothing against the 99% of Chinese that live under authoritarian rule - but the rest of the world shouldn’t help their dictators enslave them. The US has been dumb enough to source items from China that threaten our own National security (medicine, rare earth materials.) This has and should be an enormous wake up call.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 6, 2020 9:44:00 GMT -6
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Post by sozocaps on Apr 6, 2020 10:26:45 GMT -6
I'm having a hard time understanding this thread, is the central question in some way related to the corona chrisis at hand? If so, in what way? Some of the comments seem as if China is directly to be blamed for the virus and people are therefor overthinking their purchasing decisions. Do I understand this correct or is there something getting lost in translation? Let's be 100% clear... it is the Chinese people and their Companies (all of them) who steal not the Government even (who is even more corrupt). So as far as I'm concerned they are 100% blacklisted, let them rip off and destroy each other, not me.
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Post by sozocaps on Apr 6, 2020 10:31:31 GMT -6
Let me preface this add one positive thing.... If an honest(from what I can see) company like Mooer Audio comes out with something good (which I own and use) I will buy it as they are doing something original and unique and good and NOT merely stealing....
BUT if we have to quarantine them to get trade fair I have no issue.... !!!
I 100% can live with another offering even if it is more expensive....
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 6, 2020 10:33:40 GMT -6
Are you familiar with the so-called "Spanish Flu" and its origin? As you can see, yes, this thread can go south fast. There's plenty of negativity around, I don't think this forum needs to partake on it.
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