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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 2, 2020 3:48:22 GMT -6
Hey guys, I've read quite of few posts recently where people were wondering how a lot of mainstream Dynamic mics compare on vocals and other things so I did my little test, it's a bit rough but hopefully you guys'll find it interesting. Improvised a 30 second ditty on my parlor guitar, then overdubbed a uke and then some truly inspired lyrics, all this in my living room so room acoustics aren't the best. Comparing the Beyer M88, M201 ( both TGs ) and an SM7B ( turns out it had the hi boost on, forgot to check ), it's the same performance, I tried to align the capsules as best as I could and they're all going through Apogee Element Preamps as that's the only preamp that I have 3 of. I'm probably about 8 inches away from the mic for the vocals, that was the only way I could do it all in one take, so probably a bit farther away than most of us would record vocals with a dynamic. No comp, eq, tried to match volume, then added a tiny bit of Soundtoys plate on the Master. www.dropbox.com/s/ehlrzp5yb977m1i/M88%20Dynamic%20song.mp3?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/86ouq0q2xulgy91/M201%20Dynamic%20song.mp3?dl=0www.dropbox.com/s/di4ph7jrgi1a7o9/SM7B%20Dynamic%20song.mp3?dl=0 |
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Post by nick8801 on Apr 2, 2020 5:32:51 GMT -6
Cool. I still like the sm7 the best. Even with the high boost it still sounds the least peaky to me. Great acoustic sound as well. What guitar was it?
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 2, 2020 6:46:29 GMT -6
Cool. I still like the sm7 the best. Even with the high boost it still sounds the least peaky to me. Great acoustic sound as well. What guitar was it? It's an old Kay 5160 guitar, with 5 year old string. It's about as lofi as it gets but I love it. SM7 is cool, I like the 201 too, I remembered not liking it on acoustic stuff much when I tried before but decided to give it another go. All of them would sound bigger and smoother through a nice pre, the Element pres don't really do the mics justice. |
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Post by nick8801 on Apr 2, 2020 6:54:25 GMT -6
Cool. I still like the sm7 the best. Even with the high boost it still sounds the least peaky to me. Great acoustic sound as well. What guitar was it? It's an old Kay 5160 guitar, with 5 year old string. It's about as lofi as it gets but I love it. SM7 is cool, I like the 201 too, I remembered not liking it on acoustic stuff much when I tried before but decided to give it another go. All of them would sound bigger and smoother through a nice pre, the Element pres don't really do the mics justice. Nice! I thought I recognized that acoustic sound. I have an old Sears acoustic presumably made by Kay or Silvertone that sounds basically the same. Also about 5 year old strings on mine! |
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 2, 2020 7:06:02 GMT -6
It's an old Kay 5160 guitar, with 5 year old string. It's about as lofi as it gets but I love it. SM7 is cool, I like the 201 too, I remembered not liking it on acoustic stuff much when I tried before but decided to give it another go. All of them would sound bigger and smoother through a nice pre, the Element pres don't really do the mics justice. Nice! I thought I recognized that acoustic sound. I have an old Sears acoustic presumably made by Kay or Silvertone that sounds basically the same. Also about 5 year old strings on mine! I originally started playing it at home just because I live in an appart building and it was soft enough not to bother anybody. Anyway it's kind of become my main guitar for a lot of stuff. I still have 2 other really nice dreadnoughts and a couple luthier classical guitars but I don't know there's just something about that crappy Kay. I like it for strumming in a dense mix, it's all mids so it just kind of finds its place naturally. I used it on this track by the surf trio I play guitar in. I used my Aea 44 on it, cut some lows and that was it. It's not a big sound, and sounds pretty bad in solo but it fits nicely in the track. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 2, 2020 20:27:37 GMT -6
Cool. I still like the sm7 the best. Even with the high boost it still sounds the least peaky to me. Great acoustic sound as well. What guitar was it? It's an old Kay 5160 guitar, with 5 year old string. It's about as lofi as it gets but I love it. SM7 is cool, I like the 201 too, I remembered not liking it on acoustic stuff much when I tried before but decided to give it another go. All of them would sound bigger and smoother through a nice pre, the Element pres don't really do the mics justice. Choice of preamp - actually choice of input transformer - can be absolutely crucial to the sound of any dynamic mic. They can be very sensitive to loading. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 9:05:34 GMT -6
201 sounds best to me on the guitar. SM7 on the vocal. I pretended the Uke wasn't there  |
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 3, 2020 9:46:26 GMT -6
201 sounds best to me on the guitar. SM7 on the vocal. I pretended the Uke wasn't there I agree! 201 on the stringed instruments and the Shure on vocals. The 201 has an almost condenser sound on the acoustic, almost. I won't tell my Uke you said that, poor guy. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 3, 2020 9:47:56 GMT -6
It's an old Kay 5160 guitar, with 5 year old string. It's about as lofi as it gets but I love it. SM7 is cool, I like the 201 too, I remembered not liking it on acoustic stuff much when I tried before but decided to give it another go. All of them would sound bigger and smoother through a nice pre, the Element pres don't really do the mics justice. Choice of preamp - actually choice of input transformer - can be absolutely crucial to the sound of any dynamic mic. They can be very sensitive to loading. Phaedrus Audio has a preamp that has 4 different switchable input transformers, I really like the concept. It's be fun to experiment with dynamics and that mic pre. |
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Post by drumsound on Apr 3, 2020 13:06:13 GMT -6
Thanks for doing and posting this.
I'm not surprised how much I like the M201 on the instruments. Its my favorite mandolin mic I've ever tried. I like what it does on your guitar and uke. There a really nice life to them, while still having the character of the instruments.
M88 is about my favorite mic in the world. I love how it brings your vocal to a much more personal space than the other two. The mid emphasis is slightly lower than other two, and I prefer it.
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 3, 2020 13:38:04 GMT -6
Thanks for doing and posting this. I'm not surprised how much I like the M201 on the instruments. Its my favorite mandolin mic I've ever tried. I like what it does on your guitar and uke. There a really nice life to them, while still having the character of the instruments. M88 is about my favorite mic in the world. I love how it brings your vocal to a much more personal space than the other two. The mid emphasis is slightly lower than other two, and I prefer it. Yeah the Beyer was a real surprise for me. It's been stuck on snare for the last 5 years and I haven't used it for anything else. I'm glad I tried it again because I remember not liking it for acoustics for some reason but it really sounds great here. Interesting take on the 88, my wife feels the same, she likes it better on these vocals, I gravitate towards the SM7b but I wonder how much of that is just because I've kind it used it as my default demo vocal mic and I'm just used to it! |
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 3, 2020 13:42:38 GMT -6
I found the M88 a bit dull for the acoustic and the uke but they're both pretty dull naturally. I can imagine the M88 really helping on a overly bright banjo or something like that where you'd want to add some low mid energy and tame the highs.
It's been my default kick and bass amp mic. I feel like it's one of the most natural kick drum sounds, kind of like an anti D6.
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Post by drumsound on Apr 3, 2020 22:25:48 GMT -6
If you're used to you voice on the SM7b, of course you'll like it. You kept using it because you like it. They are pretty cool. I had one on a 6 month loan that once belonged to Merle Haggard. The M88 to me is magic, because it not just works, but sounds so good on so many things. That mic and I just made instant friends about 24 years ago. I was one of the better mics at my first studio gigs. I convinced the owner to buy a second, so I could have one on snare and one on guitar when doing basics. I bought a 3rd a couple years ago. I always wanted to get Beyer to send me 15 so I could make a whole record with just M88s.
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Post by chessparov on Apr 4, 2020 0:40:41 GMT -6
Thanks for doing and posting this. I'm not surprised how much I like the M201 on the instruments. Its my favorite mandolin mic I've ever tried. I like what it does on your guitar and uke. There a really nice life to them, while still having the character of the instruments. M88 is about my favorite mic in the world. I love how it brings your vocal to a much more personal space than the other two. The mid emphasis is slightly lower than other two, and I prefer it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This! With all due respect to other opinions... The M88 slayed the SM7 and M201 TG for your voice! You sounded great BTW, and the song was really fun. We ALL need that now. IMHO then the M88 for vocal (your wife is right!  , and M201 TG (very nice on stringed instruments)... Were the best combo. There's just a certain unique tone to the M88, very beautiful to us fans. Honestly, for that song... The SM7 and M201 TG sounded like they'd be excellent BGV mic's, in comparison to the M88. I have a similar situation, with a couple of vocal microphones I have too. So the plan is for me to practice harmonies on them. Thinking that the SM7 for you... Might be handy as a lead vocal mic, through a punchy API style Pre, on a harder Rock song. Chris P.S. I have a couple of mic additions planned for 2021. This helped me process M88 vs. M201. Big help. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 4, 2020 2:08:21 GMT -6
If you're used to you voice on the SM7b, of course you'll like it. You kept using it because you like it. They are pretty cool. I had one on a 6 month loan that once belonged to Merle Haggard. The M88 to me is magic, because it not just works, but sounds so good on so many things. That mic and I just made instant friends about 24 years ago. I was one of the better mics at my first studio gigs. I convinced the owner to buy a second, so I could have one on snare and one on guitar when doing basics. I bought a 3rd a couple years ago. I always wanted to get Beyer to send me 15 so I could make a whole record with just M88s. I'm sure a whole record of M88s would sound great! It really is a fantastic mic and listening back it does sound really fill out my voice. The SM7 was the first nice mic I got back in 2002, and it's always plugged in and ready to go for demos in my living room, and I'm kind of a creature of habit. I'll usually pull out my U87 or AEA 44 when it's time for final vocals. I might switch it up with the Beyer now, and leave the M201 on a separate stand for acoustics. I did another test last night and compared the M201 to my Schoeps ( my default for acoustic , mandolin etc) and it held its own! I'll upload it later. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 4, 2020 2:19:23 GMT -6
Thanks for doing and posting this. I'm not surprised how much I like the M201 on the instruments. Its my favorite mandolin mic I've ever tried. I like what it does on your guitar and uke. There a really nice life to them, while still having the character of the instruments. M88 is about my favorite mic in the world. I love how it brings your vocal to a much more personal space than the other two. The mid emphasis is slightly lower than other two, and I prefer it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This! With all due respect to other opinions... The M88 slayed the SM7 and M201 TG for your voice! You sounded great BTW, and the song was really fun. We ALL need that now. IMHO then the M88 for vocal (your wife is right! , and M201 TG (very nice on stringed instruments)... Were the best combo. There's just a certain unique tone to the M88, very beautiful to us fans. Honestly, for that song... The SM7 and M201 TG sounded like they'd be excellent BGV mic's, in comparison to the M88. I have a similar situation, with a couple of vocal microphones I have too. So the plan is for me to practice harmonies on them. Thinking that the SM7 for you... Might be handy as a lead vocal mic, through a punchy API style Pre, on a harder Rock song. Chris P.S. I have a couple of mic additions planned for 2021. This helped me process M88 vs. M201. Big help. Glad it helped! I thought you might be interested! And thanks for the kind words, I'm not much of a singer, I usually write stuff and somebody else with a much better voice sings it haha! And thanks for the feedback on the M88, it does sounds good, it's so hard to judge one's own voice that I tend to trust other ears! Actually I have used the SM7 through my Capis pushing them a bit into distortion quite a bit on my vocals for my personal project which is a blend of really traditional folk but with almost punk vocals and it sounds really good, I sang in my natural voice for the test because my voice can get super nasal when I push it and thought that would probably be a bit annoying to listen to for some people ! |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 4, 2020 9:31:41 GMT -6
Don't worry be CAPI!
Thanks again for doing this.
Chris
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Post by drumsound on Apr 4, 2020 13:11:09 GMT -6
If you're used to you voice on the SM7b, of course you'll like it. You kept using it because you like it. They are pretty cool. I had one on a 6 month loan that once belonged to Merle Haggard. The M88 to me is magic, because it not just works, but sounds so good on so many things. That mic and I just made instant friends about 24 years ago. I was one of the better mics at my first studio gigs. I convinced the owner to buy a second, so I could have one on snare and one on guitar when doing basics. I bought a 3rd a couple years ago. I always wanted to get Beyer to send me 15 so I could make a whole record with just M88s. I'm sure a whole record of M88s would sound great! It really is a fantastic mic and listening back it does sound really fill out my voice. The SM7 was the first nice mic I got back in 2002, and it's always plugged in and ready to go for demos in my living room, and I'm kind of a creature of habit. I'll usually pull out my U87 or AEA 44 when it's time for final vocals. I might switch it up with the Beyer now, and leave the M201 on a separate stand for acoustics. I did another test last night and compared the M201 to my Schoeps ( my default for acoustic , mandolin etc) and it held its own! I'll upload it later. I'll be glad to hear that too. I use a M201 on HiHat most of the time. It give a really good representation without biting your head of the way a condenser will. |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 4, 2020 13:52:44 GMT -6
IMHO the M88TG plus M201TG combo, would be a great alternative choice, for all those "Best LDC under $500" home recording threads.
Chris
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 4, 2020 13:55:05 GMT -6
I'm sure a whole record of M88s would sound great! It really is a fantastic mic and listening back it does sound really fill out my voice. The SM7 was the first nice mic I got back in 2002, and it's always plugged in and ready to go for demos in my living room, and I'm kind of a creature of habit. I'll usually pull out my U87 or AEA 44 when it's time for final vocals. I might switch it up with the Beyer now, and leave the M201 on a separate stand for acoustics. I did another test last night and compared the M201 to my Schoeps ( my default for acoustic , mandolin etc) and it held its own! I'll upload it later. I'll be glad to hear that too. I use a M201 on HiHat most of the time. It give a really good representation without biting your head of the way a condenser will. I'll upload it tomorrow! I agree dynamics are great on hh. I'll often use a 58 on hh after reading Brendan Obrien uses it a ton and I love his drum sounds. And then I'll often add parallel distortion, I like my hihats to be mid focused, more sshhh and less ttttssss. |
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Post by christopher on Apr 4, 2020 13:55:58 GMT -6
My feelings... M88 sounded like a record. 201 sounded like a good capture. SM7b sounded like live radio.
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 4, 2020 14:03:28 GMT -6
IMHO the M88TG plus M201TG combo, would be a great alternative choice, for all those "Best LDC under $500" home recording threads. Chris Definitely a great combo for singer songwriters. I did some tests with the 88 on voice and 201 on guitars and the off axis and rejection on both is really really nice. With proper placement I could barely hear the guitar in the vocal mic and the little I did hear didn't sound all weird like it can with some mics. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 5, 2020 4:02:13 GMT -6
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 5, 2020 11:41:00 GMT -6
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This! With all due respect to other opinions... The M88 slayed the SM7 and M201 TG for your voice! You sounded great BTW, and the song was really fun. We ALL need that now. IMHO then the M88 for vocal (your wife is right! , and M201 TG (very nice on stringed instruments)... Were the best combo. There's just a certain unique tone to the M88, very beautiful to us fans. Honestly, for that song... The SM7 and M201 TG sounded like they'd be excellent BGV mic's, in comparison to the M88. I have a similar situation, with a couple of vocal microphones I have too. So the plan is for me to practice harmonies on them. Thinking that the SM7 for you... Might be handy as a lead vocal mic, through a punchy API style Pre, on a harder Rock song. Chris P.S. I have a couple of mic additions planned for 2021. This helped me process M88 vs. M201. Big help. Glad it helped! I thought you might be interested! And thanks for the kind words, I'm not much of a singer, I usually write stuff and somebody else with a much better voice sings it haha! And thanks for the feedback on the M88, it does sounds good, it's so hard to judge one's own voice that I tend to trust other ears! Actually I have used the SM7 through my Capis pushing them a bit into distortion quite a bit on my vocals for my personal project which is a blend of really traditional folk but with almost punk vocals and it sounds really good, I sang in my natural voice for the test because my voice can get super nasal when I push it and thought that would probably be a bit annoying to listen to for some people ! Sings it Ha-Ha?
You write for The Joker?
Or Napoleon the XIV?
(FWIW, I believe that the pitch shifting effect on the vocal is probably a rare example of the use of the rare and elusive "Eltro" device, as the record came out in the pre-digital era.)
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Post by drumsound on Apr 6, 2020 13:24:30 GMT -6
What model is the Shoeps? I've never even touched, let alone used any of their mics. There's a richness in your examples that is speaking to me. |
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, and M201 TG (very nice on stringed instruments)... Were the best combo.