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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2020 13:48:24 GMT -6
Hey, all! I have a new control room I've just built. It's the size it is simply because it's the largest amount of space I could give up in my new heated shop studio space. I was hoping for a little guidance and/or thoughts. Here's an ultra-quick sketch of the room. It's done already. All the measurements relating to the wall lengths are accurate within 1/16th of an inch on the inside of the room. The stuff around the door is a little up in the air because I'm not exactly sure where it's all going to line up. It's just the rough opening at this point. There is nothing in this room yet so my desk, monitors, and treatment can go anywhere. There's no window (cameras and cheap TV screens are better for sound isolation!). Just the door and a small hole where I'll be running cables through. Does anyone have any thoughts or guidance they can lend me? I've had two thoughts regarding desk/monitor placement and those things change the acoustic treatment pretty significantly. I've reached out to a couple companies who have said "we'll get back to you this week" and two weeks later I've not heard from either of them. This weekend and this next week - with the virus and all - is a great time for me to make SERIOUS progress on the acoustic treatment construction. Take a look at the photo and let me know what your thoughts are! Thanks so much!  |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 26, 2020 13:54:50 GMT -6
My first thought is to put the desk so you're facing the angled wall. In the corner directly behind it consider doing a superchuunk deal with triangles of 703 and covering it with fabric.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 26, 2020 14:54:13 GMT -6
Not sure what acoustic treatment you already have but I’d consider filling the entire 14’ wall on the top with 12” deep Roxul safe n sound, then cover with wood slats or cover the sad n sound with kraft paper so you don’t kill the high end, and cover with fabric. Then place your desk against that wall and spot treat the rest of the room.
Maybe but some broadband absorbtion on the angled wall with some diffusion on the back wall with the door. How high are your ceilings? A good cieling cloud can work wonders.
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Post by jamiesego on Mar 26, 2020 15:02:42 GMT -6
My first inclination would be to do what drumsound suggested. Fill the corner of the 14' walls with insulation, put some panels on the first reflection points of 14' walls. Maybe try tube traps in the corners.  |
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 26, 2020 15:03:37 GMT -6
Not sure what acoustic treatment you already have but I’d consider filling the entire 14’ wall on the top with 12” deep Roxul safe n sound, then cover with wood slats or cover the sad n sound with kraft paper so you don’t kill the high end, and cover with fabric. Then place your desk against that wall and spot treat the rest of the room. Maybe but some broadband absorbtion on the angled wall with some diffusion on the back wall with the door. How high are your ceilings? A good cieling cloud can work wonders. Ceilings are 9' 9.5". Those are the two locations I had in mind, too. Either at the top of the photo so I have symmetry side to side for the listening position or desk along the angled wall and symmetry all over (but walls throwing sound directly back at the listening position). Something I should mention: the isolation in this room was a big consideration. I've got pretty good isolation so that means all the sound inside the room is staying inside the room. The reverb time is obnoxious right now. I'm imagining a significant ceiling cloud and stuff in the corners would help that significantly. I've never gone from a super reverberant room to a controlled room so I'm not sure how much will be needed to get me there. I understand the first reflection point stuff but I'm not sure how much treating the first reflection points plus the ceiling plus the corners will reduce the actual reverb time or if I need to go more along the route Tbone suggested of some amount of absorption on a significant portion of the surfaces. I currently have a pretty substantial list of acoustic treatment. My current room sounds TERRIBLE so I just killed the reflections in the room. I built it all to stand on its own aside from the ceiling clouds. Here's the list of my current acoustic treatment: 2 - GIK 244 traps over my mix position on the ceiling. 4 - 72"x16"x5.5" panels filled with Safe N Sound 2 - 48"x38"x5.5" panels filled with Safe N Sound 1 - 48"x47"x5.5" panel filled with Safe N Sound 3 - 48"x31"x3" panels filled with Safe N Sound two are on the ceiling 1 - 92"x72"x3" panel filled with Safe N Sound on the ceiling...that I can't get out of my house without cutting in half! 8 - 72"x24.5"x2" panels filled with ComfortBatt (which is similar to Safe N Sound) I also have a few other panels someone gave me with some OC 703 but I haven't measured them and they're stashed away right this second. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 26, 2020 15:51:35 GMT -6
Spend a little by giving Jeff Headback a call, save a lot of time and money in the long run.
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Post by drbill on Mar 26, 2020 15:59:11 GMT -6
Spend a little by giving Jeff Headback a call, save a lot of time and money in the long run. Ditto. Saved me a huge amount time time AND money. Just as Eric suggested. |
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 26, 2020 16:33:28 GMT -6
I’m working with Hedbeck now. So far he’s been pretty thorough and thoughtful.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 26, 2020 18:15:51 GMT -6
Not sure what acoustic treatment you already have but I’d consider filling the entire 14’ wall on the top with 12” deep Roxul safe n sound, then cover with wood slats or cover the sad n sound with kraft paper so you don’t kill the high end, and cover with fabric. Then place your desk against that wall and spot treat the rest of the room. Maybe but some broadband absorbtion on the angled wall with some diffusion on the back wall with the door. How high are your ceilings? A good cieling cloud can work wonders. Ceilings are 9' 9.5". Those are the two locations I had in mind, too. Either at the top of the photo so I have symmetry side to side for the listening position or desk along the angled wall and symmetry all over (but walls throwing sound directly back at the listening position). Something I should mention: the isolation in this room was a big consideration. I've got pretty good isolation so that means all the sound inside the room is staying inside the room. The reverb time is obnoxious right now. I'm imagining a significant ceiling cloud and stuff in the corners would help that significantly. I've never gone from a super reverberant room to a controlled room so I'm not sure how much will be needed to get me there. I understand the first reflection point stuff but I'm not sure how much treating the first reflection points plus the ceiling plus the corners will reduce the actual reverb time or if I need to go more along the route Tbone suggested of some amount of absorption on a significant portion of the surfaces. I currently have a pretty substantial list of acoustic treatment. My current room sounds TERRIBLE so I just killed the reflections in the room. I built it all to stand on its own aside from the ceiling clouds. Here's the list of my current acoustic treatment: 2 - GIK 244 traps over my mix position on the ceiling. 4 - 72"x16"x5.5" panels filled with Safe N Sound 2 - 48"x38"x5.5" panels filled with Safe N Sound 1 - 48"x47"x5.5" panel filled with Safe N Sound 3 - 48"x31"x3" panels filled with Safe N Sound two are on the ceiling 1 - 92"x72"x3" panel filled with Safe N Sound on the ceiling...that I can't get out of my house without cutting in half! 8 - 72"x24.5"x2" panels filled with ComfortBatt (which is similar to Safe N Sound) I also have a few other panels someone gave me with some OC 703 but I haven't measured them and they're stashed away right this second. So just a thought but the less dense stuff like safe n sound is great for deep bass traps because it doesn’t restrict air flows too much, while denser insulation like 705 etc is great for broadband traps in the typical depths (2”,4”,6”). Is repurpose the safe n sound insulation you already have by Turing them into super chunk corner traps or fill an entire wall 12-18” deep like I mentioned before. Because you can never have too much bass trapping. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 26, 2020 18:18:10 GMT -6
Try taping out the dimensions of your desk on the floor to see how it fits in the room. I think if you put the desk against the angled wall you’re going to find yourself sitting cramped, and sitting in the middle of the room. It might be uncomfortable from a workflow perspective
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 27, 2020 4:48:08 GMT -6
Well, one of the companies got back to me.
They suggested my desk be at the corner between the two 14' walls and to use floor-to-ceiling tube-style traps in the 90º corners. Then panels next to the listening position and at the back of the room covering most of that angled wall and continuing 4' past the 45º angles. Suspend something from the ceiling above the mix position to sort that out. I'd probably also do something further back in the room just to make listening back there a little better, too.
I hadn't even thought of this layout because I didn't think sitting near that 90º corner would be a good idea. It definitely opens up the back of the room to be a little more useful, though.
Any thoughts on this layout?
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Post by Ward on Mar 27, 2020 6:25:11 GMT -6
I would be really curious as to what Jeff Hedback has to say, as he is correct 99% of the time, and what he thinks about the potential for standing waves and muddiness with this particular geometry.
Remember, a bass or low-mid heavy room will lead to bass light sounding mixes.
Speaking from personal experiences.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 27, 2020 11:04:08 GMT -6
My current room is close in size to yours, it’s approx 13’ x 14’. From experience I’d say don’t underestimate how important ergonomics, comfort and vibe are. Putting your desk in the corner between the two 14” walls eats up a lot of floor space. It could feel cramped when you move in all your gear and have a few clients sitting in there with you.
Are you planning on tracking anything in the room? Do you have A/C already and where is it located?
Maybe respond to that company and/or Jeff and have them give you an alternative layout that prioritizes space saving so that you can compare the two.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 28, 2020 19:35:20 GMT -6
Man, that ceiling seems awful low to me. I can't really see how you could get a cloud in there. Maybe Jeff could come up with something, but 9-9.5' sounds really problematic to me.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 29, 2020 20:59:15 GMT -6
Man, that ceiling seems awful low to me. I can't really see how you could get a cloud in there. Maybe Jeff could come up with something, but 9-9.5' sounds really problematic to me. I wouldn't have imagined 9' 9.5" to be too low. How high would you recommend for a control room? I know the answer is "as high as possible" but what's realistic? What's everyone else have going on in their control room? I imagine I could get 6" of insulation plus 6" of air gap up there - enough to really significantly control reflections - and still be a foot and a half higher than my current situation! |
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 29, 2020 22:04:51 GMT -6
Man, that ceiling seems awful low to me. I can't really see how you could get a cloud in there. Maybe Jeff could come up with something, but 9-9.5' sounds really problematic to me. I wouldn't have imagined 9' 9.5" to be too low. How high would you recommend for a control room? I know the answer is "as high as possible" but what's realistic? What's everyone else have going on in their control room? I imagine I could get 6" of insulation plus 6" of air gap up there - enough to really significantly control reflections - and still be a foot and a half higher than my current situation! 10 feet minimum, 12 feet preferable. With 9 to 9.5 there's not enough clearance if you've got a cloud with reasonable thickness, plus the air gap. Of course it depends on how low you need it to be effective. And how tall you expect the people using the room to be. But I'm not an expert, I just know what I'm comfortable with. One problem that a lot of smaller rooms face is lack of thickness in the absorption, causing a room with a dead high end and inadequate treatment in the low mids on down, which is where smaller rooms tend to have problems with modes.
I don't like dead sounding rooms, they make me uncomfortable.
I also don't like parallel surfaces...
A foot and a half higher than your current situation? Man, that would make me feel claustrophobic....
When I have to find a new place the first thing I look at is ceiling height.
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Post by stratboy on Mar 31, 2020 13:36:15 GMT -6
Well, one of the companies got back to me. They suggested my desk be at the corner between the two 14' walls and to use floor-to-ceiling tube-style traps in the 90º corners. Then panels next to the listening position and at the back of the room covering most of that angled wall and continuing 4' past the 45º angles. Suspend something from the ceiling above the mix position to sort that out. I'd probably also do something further back in the room just to make listening back there a little better, too. I hadn't even thought of this layout because I didn't think sitting near that 90º corner would be a good idea. It definitely opens up the back of the room to be a little more useful, though. Any thoughts on this layout? My desk and mix position are in a corner like yours. My design was done by Joe Horner at Acoustics First in Richmond, VA. PM me and I’ll send you a photo. I was really surprised and had some of the same concerns about the corner position as you, but it worked out really well. I would definitely consult with a pro, as others have suggested, before you start hanging stuff. It definitely helped me. |
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