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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2020 17:52:25 GMT -6
I know a lot of people crush overheads, but I’ve always preferred no compression on them. Running into a couple songs in a session where they have ride in the choruses - and I guess he didn’t really hit the ride hard - but then the crashes are waaay louder. Bring the ride up, the crashes are overbearing. My personal preference is kind’ve the way he played it - ride felt but not heard then crashes are proper volume. But the client is saying he wants more ride. I’m not in front of the computer right now, but obviously, thought about compressing the OH to solve the problem...but since I never do it...how do you guys approach?
I’ve got these to mix in - OH, Glyn Johns setup on a stereo aux, Room and mono room. Mostly leaning on the OH - don’t need a lot of room for a dense mix.
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Post by ragan on Mar 1, 2020 18:19:35 GMT -6
If they want a stronger ride/crash ratio than exists in the tracks you'll have to get tricky. You could compress up to get more ride and then trigger some multiband comp on the kick hits where crashes are to gently duck them back.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 1, 2020 18:27:28 GMT -6
I use the Waves API 2500 on OH. Usually soft knee, stereo link off, attack/release/threshold set to taste depending on what you're trying to achieve. I never really crush oh's, but rooms? Hell yes.
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Post by drbill on Mar 1, 2020 18:28:11 GMT -6
If they are in different sections of the song, then I'd cut and clip gain up the rides, and down the crashes. XFADE, and keep on rocking. If they are going on simultaneously, you'll have to get tricky with compression. Or turn it up until the clients ears bleed.  |
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Post by christopher on Mar 1, 2020 18:35:35 GMT -6
I'm not big on compression on overheads either, but I do like to over-compress the whole drum bus sometimes, mostly for fun. It does help everything sound a little more audible. Another method I like is send it all to to a room reverb and crank the treble/limiters there instead (or you can try that to your room mics). My other go-to is create a new track, copy/paste the sections with ride from one of the OH mics. Then EQ to bring out the ride, adjust level. If that doesn't work I'll try the other mics. If that still doesn't work, then I might automate it for each ride hit. If that still doesn't work, I'll try delay the ride track 10ms or so, to pretend it has its own mic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 18:36:04 GMT -6
Make two overhead tracks. Make one just the ride or the ride during the choruses. Do with it as you see fit. Raise the volume, automation, compression, or transient shaping. Blend them together with analog gear, emulations, or very very slight compression (under 1 db or none at all).
Otherwise, you're going to have to compress it or do digital tricks. He doesn't like his own performance. The new school lazy computer ways to gate out the the crash or multiband dynamic eq or phase canceling will sound less natural than old school cut n paste trickery. The modern rock and metal guys do that stuff like and their productions with "perfect perfomances" sound way worse than old school bashing from Ringo and 70s and 80s caveman drummers.
I deal with this crap and unhappy drummers in metal all the time with kick and snare during blasts beats and preserve the performance with ways that are impossible with overheads. You have to compress or do cut and paste trickery with them.
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Post by jamiesego on Mar 1, 2020 19:17:19 GMT -6
I like to use my Serpent SB4001 sometimes. I saw a video in which Albini likes to use a limiter on the overheads. I don’t remember the model. I think Albini’s thought process was ducking the overhead signal every time the snare hits. I’m not sure if that was to raise the cymbal level or let the close mic come through more.
I’ll also use the Vari-Mu in the Retro Powerstrip or the Kush AR-1 sometimes for the a little of the Sixties Beatles vibe.
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Post by svart on Mar 1, 2020 19:55:25 GMT -6
Some of the pro mixers will automate overheads up and down on hits to even them out a little.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2020 20:23:38 GMT -6
Yeah - honestly might be as simple as volume automation.
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 1, 2020 20:41:11 GMT -6
Clip gain it. Works great for that stuff.
I like a pair of 1176s on the overheads but not getting into compression much. Just tagging the needle a bit. But that's a tone thing not a gain control thing.
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Post by Ward on Mar 1, 2020 21:15:23 GMT -6
Like Blackdawg, I like a pair of 76 Rev Fs on overheads. And an audioscape D-comp on room mics, but sometimes I switch around and use the D-Comp on overheads. Either way, Just light compression to even out all cymbals and overall drum kit picture . . . nothing like crushing. You can add more later! |
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Post by sean on Mar 1, 2020 22:08:40 GMT -6
I think you’d have the best result with just automation.
You could try finding the frequency of the stick on the cymbal and turn that EQ on and off when needed.
I like a little VCA Compressor on overheads if the snare is overbearing but usually just a couple DBs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 2:08:29 GMT -6
You could also try a combination of automation and parallel compression on either the whole kit or just the OHs. I find it works good to control the density of the cymbals. Slowly bring it up until you have enough. Fast Attack and release in general.
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Post by jampa on Mar 2, 2020 2:28:58 GMT -6
I automate quiet hits up - someone's suggestion about duplicating track and cutting out the loud bits is good too
Clip the overheads to bring the snare down (I use Standard Clip)
And give feedback to band that any bigger gains would require retracking - I say something like how as a drummer myself, I find it's really important to get a good headphone mix while tracking so that you can self-adjust, etc...
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Post by javamad on Mar 2, 2020 5:09:18 GMT -6
I presume the ring of the ride is mostly in one side?
Why not duplicate that side only and bring it in where the ride plays ... maybe find a high frequency that brings it out and boost that on your duplicated track ... careful with phase
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 2, 2020 7:23:41 GMT -6
I always gently compress the overheads, with a Neve 33609, to get the hat's, ride, and snare in a nicer place.
Sounds much more of a piece when I do!
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Post by EmRR on Mar 2, 2020 10:03:12 GMT -6
I'd probably automate levels
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Post by allbuttonmode on Mar 3, 2020 3:12:19 GMT -6
How about some parallel compression? Might do the trick. Then again, I'm one of those who like to compress the OHs quite a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 15:03:11 GMT -6
I had a similar issue a couple mixes back, though it was that the left crash was a lot quieter than the right. I used the UAD 2500 with the link off and a little multiband EQ with a high band set to only boost on the left to add some top end when it was being hit. Worked pretty well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 16:18:40 GMT -6
Some of the pro mixers will automate overheads up and down on hits to even them out a little. This^ Automation. And maybe TDR nova or a de-esser to tame the cymbals ~ or maybe just slamming the OH's like you said would do it (especially if you high pass the hell out of the OH's so they are more "cymbal mics" and not overall kit mics). |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 3, 2020 16:24:12 GMT -6
I ended up just automating the volume on the crashes. Worked well.
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